New 350Z owners, read this before doing any modifications to your Z.
11-21-2003, 11:42 PM
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Let it roll off your back, dude
zland -
You have rightfully received the uniform accolades of the membership here. You have, in a long thread, summarized virtually all the modification experience that the thousands of members have posted here in well over a year.
But I would like to ask you to think about something. You have obviously become a leader here, and people are now looking to you for advice before spending their hard-earned money on modifications for their Zs. All of that is great, but . . .
I know for a fact that all you have done to your car is wheels and tires, suspension and exhuast. Maybe one or two things lately that I don't know about. You have done virtually no engine mods. You have no personal experience with twin turbos, superchargers, N/A mods like cams, pulleys, flywheels, plenums, etc.
Don't take this the wrong way. I think your are an incredible scribe. But there is a lot of mis-information on this board. There are at least 2 opposing opinions on everything. One day at the track does not make you the Dalai Lama of 350Z modification.
Now, let the flames begin. Goodnight, nurse.
You have rightfully received the uniform accolades of the membership here. You have, in a long thread, summarized virtually all the modification experience that the thousands of members have posted here in well over a year.
But I would like to ask you to think about something. You have obviously become a leader here, and people are now looking to you for advice before spending their hard-earned money on modifications for their Zs. All of that is great, but . . .
I know for a fact that all you have done to your car is wheels and tires, suspension and exhuast. Maybe one or two things lately that I don't know about. You have done virtually no engine mods. You have no personal experience with twin turbos, superchargers, N/A mods like cams, pulleys, flywheels, plenums, etc.
Don't take this the wrong way. I think your are an incredible scribe. But there is a lot of mis-information on this board. There are at least 2 opposing opinions on everything. One day at the track does not make you the Dalai Lama of 350Z modification.
Now, let the flames begin. Goodnight, nurse.
11-22-2003, 06:13 AM
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Mr. Jones:
I am very careful what I do thus do a lot of research. I have not modded my motor yet for good reason. I believe in looking at all options fully before deciding. I am not concerned with being first in anything but making the best choices for my goals with my car. IMHO adequate information is not available yet on engine options to make a decision that will involve $5-10,000. Let me explain:
1. NA: Some good gains here for a high price but JWT is working on an ECU and more aggressive cams to name one company. Why would I install cams now when better ones appear to be around the corner possibly matched with an ECU upgrade?
SC: The Vortech sounds great and has a history as a company of good service and reliability but their 350Z kit is still untested by consumers. Dream Workes promises CARB legal performance with a 36K warranty & be installed by Nissan dealers. DW is a new company so their reputation needs to be proven for my comfort level to buy it. There are not even dyno sheets posted on DW's yet and it is not being sold yet anyways.
TT: None sold to consumers yet and installed. No comparisons between them, no TT engine internals changed to see if the TT is worth the extra money to build up and still have reliability.
In just under a month’s time, SportZ will test the Vortech and DW SC cars along side the Stillen and ATI cars. Next they plan to test a TT and possibly DW car. I want to see those results and yes, I will be there for those tests in person.
I can tell you this, before I purchased tires and wheels, I went to a number of wheel places and looked at them in person. I spoke to a lot of people within the industry and that race, as well as people on line. I actually went to the factory (HRE) and watched them be built and spoke to the engineer that designed my wheels as well as the guy that customs fits it to my car to talk about fit issues. I actually called the engineer that designs Rays & Volks 4-6 months prior to me getting my car and discussed the tire sizes optimal for track on the Z. It was one of my first 3 posts on this site. Do a check on my name and check it out if you like.
On suspension, I rode tested cars with Teins Coilovers, Eibach, and NISMO S, as well as spoke to people that had road tested Teins VS JIC's on tracks and street (Several). I did that all before getting my suspension. I dont buy right away but then again, I do spend enough time researching to most likely have few regrets.
On Engine: I went to Mossy and looked at every dyno they have done (they dyno a car everytime they install a new product be it air intake or cams). I have spoken to EVERY SC company hours on the phone. I have spoken to people related to PE and Greddy TT kits. I was the guy that set up the SportZ test by calling and e-mail the staff at SportZ to get them involved and I directly contacted all the car owners you will see in the test to encourage them to use their cars with the exception of Vortech, in that case, I went through Steve Padfield and he found the owner of the Vortech car for us.
Just as with suspension, I will ride in every car be it the top NA (like I have already done), SC, and TT car before I decide which way to go for my Z. I do not want to install NISMO cams and then decide to go SC on my Z and find those cams are not optimal thus the reason for not modding my engine yet. I don’t like wasting money.
I never claimed I was the most knowleable person on this forum. In fact, I stated there were more knowledgeable people and encouraged readers of this thread to consult with them all before buying a mod. You will see that my pm box is often full and people tell me to clean it out to pm me. That is because I pm a lot of people asking them for advise and information. I have posted something like 1600 posts, I pm a lot too. Between going to places that work on Z’s, talk to Nissan master techs, manufactures engineer, pm’ing people on this site, and doing a heck of a lot of reading, I learn as much as I can. I hope no one here takes my word alone on anything. In fact I hope no one listens to just one person on any issue. Do your homework so you have no regrets.
The purpose of this thread is to give a general overview to NEW Z owners that have not been on this site for months on end reading thousands of threads. It is not to prove my status among fellow site members or debate fine details with experienced 350Z modders. We have other threads to debate A/F mixtures and ECU reprogramming etc. The bottom line is it is not about me at all; it is about helping new people get a jump-start into possibilities in upgrading their car.
Mr. Jones, you said, "there is a lot of mis-information on this board". If you are implying that I gave misinformation on this thread, please be specific and lets address it. If I did and it is pointed out, I will gladly retract my statement. Did you know that I actually PM'ed over a half dozen people on this site I respected to have them read this thread and asked them directly for input? Some of these people were ones I often debate details with on fine issues about areas such as fuel management. The purpose was to consult with people that I know have experience and sometimes different view points than myself. I am concerned with new readers reading something I said that might not be 100% correct thus the reason for input I requested. Again, even with this thread, it is about accumulated knowledge, not proving one persons point above others.
Now don’t get upset and drink the wrong kind of Kool-Aid again ok. If you have something to add for new people post it or if I been in error, point it out for the sake of new readers so we can all benefit from your experience.
Jeff - zland
I am very careful what I do thus do a lot of research. I have not modded my motor yet for good reason. I believe in looking at all options fully before deciding. I am not concerned with being first in anything but making the best choices for my goals with my car. IMHO adequate information is not available yet on engine options to make a decision that will involve $5-10,000. Let me explain:
1. NA: Some good gains here for a high price but JWT is working on an ECU and more aggressive cams to name one company. Why would I install cams now when better ones appear to be around the corner possibly matched with an ECU upgrade?
SC: The Vortech sounds great and has a history as a company of good service and reliability but their 350Z kit is still untested by consumers. Dream Workes promises CARB legal performance with a 36K warranty & be installed by Nissan dealers. DW is a new company so their reputation needs to be proven for my comfort level to buy it. There are not even dyno sheets posted on DW's yet and it is not being sold yet anyways.
TT: None sold to consumers yet and installed. No comparisons between them, no TT engine internals changed to see if the TT is worth the extra money to build up and still have reliability.
In just under a month’s time, SportZ will test the Vortech and DW SC cars along side the Stillen and ATI cars. Next they plan to test a TT and possibly DW car. I want to see those results and yes, I will be there for those tests in person.
I can tell you this, before I purchased tires and wheels, I went to a number of wheel places and looked at them in person. I spoke to a lot of people within the industry and that race, as well as people on line. I actually went to the factory (HRE) and watched them be built and spoke to the engineer that designed my wheels as well as the guy that customs fits it to my car to talk about fit issues. I actually called the engineer that designs Rays & Volks 4-6 months prior to me getting my car and discussed the tire sizes optimal for track on the Z. It was one of my first 3 posts on this site. Do a check on my name and check it out if you like.
On suspension, I rode tested cars with Teins Coilovers, Eibach, and NISMO S, as well as spoke to people that had road tested Teins VS JIC's on tracks and street (Several). I did that all before getting my suspension. I dont buy right away but then again, I do spend enough time researching to most likely have few regrets.
On Engine: I went to Mossy and looked at every dyno they have done (they dyno a car everytime they install a new product be it air intake or cams). I have spoken to EVERY SC company hours on the phone. I have spoken to people related to PE and Greddy TT kits. I was the guy that set up the SportZ test by calling and e-mail the staff at SportZ to get them involved and I directly contacted all the car owners you will see in the test to encourage them to use their cars with the exception of Vortech, in that case, I went through Steve Padfield and he found the owner of the Vortech car for us.
Just as with suspension, I will ride in every car be it the top NA (like I have already done), SC, and TT car before I decide which way to go for my Z. I do not want to install NISMO cams and then decide to go SC on my Z and find those cams are not optimal thus the reason for not modding my engine yet. I don’t like wasting money.
I never claimed I was the most knowleable person on this forum. In fact, I stated there were more knowledgeable people and encouraged readers of this thread to consult with them all before buying a mod. You will see that my pm box is often full and people tell me to clean it out to pm me. That is because I pm a lot of people asking them for advise and information. I have posted something like 1600 posts, I pm a lot too. Between going to places that work on Z’s, talk to Nissan master techs, manufactures engineer, pm’ing people on this site, and doing a heck of a lot of reading, I learn as much as I can. I hope no one here takes my word alone on anything. In fact I hope no one listens to just one person on any issue. Do your homework so you have no regrets.
The purpose of this thread is to give a general overview to NEW Z owners that have not been on this site for months on end reading thousands of threads. It is not to prove my status among fellow site members or debate fine details with experienced 350Z modders. We have other threads to debate A/F mixtures and ECU reprogramming etc. The bottom line is it is not about me at all; it is about helping new people get a jump-start into possibilities in upgrading their car.
Mr. Jones, you said, "there is a lot of mis-information on this board". If you are implying that I gave misinformation on this thread, please be specific and lets address it. If I did and it is pointed out, I will gladly retract my statement. Did you know that I actually PM'ed over a half dozen people on this site I respected to have them read this thread and asked them directly for input? Some of these people were ones I often debate details with on fine issues about areas such as fuel management. The purpose was to consult with people that I know have experience and sometimes different view points than myself. I am concerned with new readers reading something I said that might not be 100% correct thus the reason for input I requested. Again, even with this thread, it is about accumulated knowledge, not proving one persons point above others.
Now don’t get upset and drink the wrong kind of Kool-Aid again ok. If you have something to add for new people post it or if I been in error, point it out for the sake of new readers so we can all benefit from your experience.
Jeff - zland
11-23-2003, 07:36 AM
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That's a lot of research, dude
zland -
God bless you for being so thorough. But I do research as part of my job. For me, the car is a hobby. Doing all that before modding the car would be a busman's holiday for me.
I woke up one Saturday morning last March and decided I really liked the few Zs I had seen on the road, and the one or two magazine articles I read about it were enough for me. By 5 pm that same day, I was driving my new 350Z.
Later I went to a shop that specializes in modding Zs. I took one ride in their test mule, which has lots of N/A engine mods. 5 minutes in that car, and I said SOLD, and said give me the whole package. I didn't even know what pulleys were.
Just one dead megalomaniac's opinion.
God bless you for being so thorough. But I do research as part of my job. For me, the car is a hobby. Doing all that before modding the car would be a busman's holiday for me.
I woke up one Saturday morning last March and decided I really liked the few Zs I had seen on the road, and the one or two magazine articles I read about it were enough for me. By 5 pm that same day, I was driving my new 350Z.
Later I went to a shop that specializes in modding Zs. I took one ride in their test mule, which has lots of N/A engine mods. 5 minutes in that car, and I said SOLD, and said give me the whole package. I didn't even know what pulleys were.
Just one dead megalomaniac's opinion.
11-23-2003, 09:40 AM
#64
Re: Let it roll off your back, dude
Originally posted by Jim Jones
zland -
I know for a fact that all you have done to your car is wheels and tires, suspension and exhuast. Maybe one or two things lately that I don't know about. You have done virtually no engine mods. You have no personal experience with twin turbos, superchargers, N/A mods like cams, pulleys, flywheels, plenums, etc.
Don't take this the wrong way. I think your are an incredible scribe. But there is a lot of mis-information on this board. There are at least 2 opposing opinions on everything. One day at the track does not make you the Dalai Lama of 350Z modification.
Now, let the flames begin. Goodnight, nurse.
zland -
I know for a fact that all you have done to your car is wheels and tires, suspension and exhuast. Maybe one or two things lately that I don't know about. You have done virtually no engine mods. You have no personal experience with twin turbos, superchargers, N/A mods like cams, pulleys, flywheels, plenums, etc.
Don't take this the wrong way. I think your are an incredible scribe. But there is a lot of mis-information on this board. There are at least 2 opposing opinions on everything. One day at the track does not make you the Dalai Lama of 350Z modification.
Now, let the flames begin. Goodnight, nurse.
Why do you constantly have to create problems with other forum members? What is this, your third or fourth avatar and name because you keep getting into it with other forum members?
Zland's post was very informative and compiled a lot of information spread out all over this forum into one concise thread. And, what do you do? You come here, argue that Zland isn't the Dalai Lama of modifications just because he hasn't had experience with modifications?
Let me tell you something, you may have dumped a lot of money into your modifications with Mossy but I doubt you turned a single wrench or have a clue how anything was done. So, don't be thinking you're any prophet of modification either. And, the information posted in Zland's thread remains as useful as it was before you started discrediting it.
Do yourself a favor. Stop posting badly about other forum members and you wont keep getting strikes and having to change your name. Keep it up and you will lose all faith and confidence from other forum members.
Dan
11-23-2003, 01:29 PM
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Richard is a nice guy. Sometimes he justs worked up pretty easy. If you meet him in person, he is different than how he was on some of those dyno posts where he was defending the dyno results. No one likes to be questioned like he was being question. I think it left a bad taste in his mouth towards some people.
As for me, heck, I teach HS. There are very few people here that are as rude or ignorant as some of the kids I deal with on a daily basis. If you have thin skin in my job, you dont last long. Most of the people on this site are great but with thousands of members, it is impossible for some of us to have conflicts. BTW hfm, thanks for coming to my defense.
Jeff - zland
As for me, heck, I teach HS. There are very few people here that are as rude or ignorant as some of the kids I deal with on a daily basis. If you have thin skin in my job, you dont last long. Most of the people on this site are great but with thousands of members, it is impossible for some of us to have conflicts. BTW hfm, thanks for coming to my defense.
Jeff - zland
11-23-2003, 07:12 PM
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I complimented you and stated a fact
zland -
I did not question your integrity, or attack you in any way. I said you were doing a great service to the membership here by synthesizing everything you have learned from your extensive research and writing detailed posts.
I simply pointed out a fact. If I am wrong, please let me know and I will gladly post a public apology. You do not have any personal experience with engine modification. You learned everything you know second hand. That's not a criticism or a personal attack, and you should not interpret it that way. Others who have posted here about their engine mods have lived it. Some for many years with lots of other cars.
Now, I know there is nothing I can say that will change anyone's mind. You are god and I am an insignificant worm here. I was simply asking you to moderate your authoritative tone a little. You are a high school teacher. But we are not in class.
All that being said, I hope we can remain friends. I enjoyed meeting you and driving on the track together.
Peas.
I did not question your integrity, or attack you in any way. I said you were doing a great service to the membership here by synthesizing everything you have learned from your extensive research and writing detailed posts.
I simply pointed out a fact. If I am wrong, please let me know and I will gladly post a public apology. You do not have any personal experience with engine modification. You learned everything you know second hand. That's not a criticism or a personal attack, and you should not interpret it that way. Others who have posted here about their engine mods have lived it. Some for many years with lots of other cars.
Now, I know there is nothing I can say that will change anyone's mind. You are god and I am an insignificant worm here. I was simply asking you to moderate your authoritative tone a little. You are a high school teacher. But we are not in class.
All that being said, I hope we can remain friends. I enjoyed meeting you and driving on the track together.
Peas.
11-23-2003, 10:27 PM
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I don't get it
1. I offered an olive branch and you refused it.
2. I will reiterate that I am only stating a fact. I am reacting to your holier that thou attitude and your giving advice to others who know more than you do. You can call that "word games" if you like.
3. You have some serious issues, dude. Most importantly, you talk too much. Shut the ***** up.
4. Don't call me Richard.
5. To the moderators: where the heck are you? Shouldn't I have 2 strikes by now? LMAO
2. I will reiterate that I am only stating a fact. I am reacting to your holier that thou attitude and your giving advice to others who know more than you do. You can call that "word games" if you like.
3. You have some serious issues, dude. Most importantly, you talk too much. Shut the ***** up.
4. Don't call me Richard.
5. To the moderators: where the heck are you? Shouldn't I have 2 strikes by now? LMAO
11-23-2003, 10:36 PM
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In rebuttal to Jim Jones, I first posted a reply that was as neagative as what he was posting to me. After sleeping on it, I decided to delete it to keep the thread on track.
11-23-2003, 10:37 PM
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P.S.
Mossy screwed up the installation of my Borla headers. Performance Nissan found that the passenger side header was loose and the gasket had blown out. It was leaking for some time, they told me. They tightened it down for free and will install a gasket the next time I am there. Not everything is as it seems.
11-25-2003, 04:08 PM
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dnguyent:
You are welcome. I wrote this as a starting point/overview and not to be an end all source. Getting feedback like this is rewarding.
Jeff - zland
You are welcome. I wrote this as a starting point/overview and not to be an end all source. Getting feedback like this is rewarding.
Jeff - zland
11-25-2003, 10:30 PM
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I'm Sorry
zland -
I'd like to try once more to apologize to you because I know you feel that I insulted you. I really did not mean to do that. I am very happy with my car and I know that you love yours too.
If you can find it in your heart to forgive at this holiday time, please do. I hope you will take a look at my "Normal Aspiration and ECU" thread on the Modifications forum.
Happy Thanksgiving.
I'd like to try once more to apologize to you because I know you feel that I insulted you. I really did not mean to do that. I am very happy with my car and I know that you love yours too.
If you can find it in your heart to forgive at this holiday time, please do. I hope you will take a look at my "Normal Aspiration and ECU" thread on the Modifications forum.
Happy Thanksgiving.
11-25-2003, 10:39 PM
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Jim, my apoligies to you as well. We can do the group hug thing if you make it to the track in March. I'll check out the thread you mentioned,
Jeff -zland
Jeff -zland
11-25-2003, 10:50 PM
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Can you feel the love tonight?
zland =
OK so we are cool now. I was afraid I would have to miss your track event next March just because of that silly rift. I will be there.
Here is some info to add to your research database. Mr. Twisted looked at all my mods last Sunday at the LA meet, and said "I bet you are running really lean now."
When I went to TechnoSquare for my ECU flash today Tadashi said "The RT hi-flow cats make the cars run very lean." Then he took out one of my spark plugs. It was black at the tip. He said "you are running very lean and you are lucky you came in now." Fortunately, I have been driving on the cats for only a few days now.
The ECU takes care of the lean condition.
OK so we are cool now. I was afraid I would have to miss your track event next March just because of that silly rift. I will be there.
Here is some info to add to your research database. Mr. Twisted looked at all my mods last Sunday at the LA meet, and said "I bet you are running really lean now."
When I went to TechnoSquare for my ECU flash today Tadashi said "The RT hi-flow cats make the cars run very lean." Then he took out one of my spark plugs. It was black at the tip. He said "you are running very lean and you are lucky you came in now." Fortunately, I have been driving on the cats for only a few days now.
The ECU takes care of the lean condition.
11-26-2003, 06:28 AM
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ZLAND, great thread...I really appreciate the time you've spent on this!
I've been a staunch advocate on TUNING, not re-inventing the wheel. It bugs me to see some kids go out and buy all these parts and replace perfectly good OEM ones. These cars are exceptional performers, both on and off the race track...I'm still waiting for someone to smartly tune an Enthusiast for less than $40k (including the car) and spank everything but a Ferrari Enzo. I've seen a guy spank Porsche 911s with a 4-door Honda Civic on a shoestring budget...I know it can be done!
One minor correction on the tire sizing, though: Both ABS and VDC look at the difference in speeds (RPM) between each wheel, not the actual speeds of the wheels. If 3 wheels are spinning at the same speed and the 4th wheel is turning slower, the ABS system assumes this 4th wheel is slipping and will release the braking force going to it. As long as ALL tires are the same diameter (+/-3%) with relation to each other, then larger or smaller tires will not affect the operation of ABS. Basically, ABS doesn't care how fast the wheels are spinning, just as long as all 4 are spinning at the same rate.
I've been a staunch advocate on TUNING, not re-inventing the wheel. It bugs me to see some kids go out and buy all these parts and replace perfectly good OEM ones. These cars are exceptional performers, both on and off the race track...I'm still waiting for someone to smartly tune an Enthusiast for less than $40k (including the car) and spank everything but a Ferrari Enzo. I've seen a guy spank Porsche 911s with a 4-door Honda Civic on a shoestring budget...I know it can be done!
One minor correction on the tire sizing, though: Both ABS and VDC look at the difference in speeds (RPM) between each wheel, not the actual speeds of the wheels. If 3 wheels are spinning at the same speed and the 4th wheel is turning slower, the ABS system assumes this 4th wheel is slipping and will release the braking force going to it. As long as ALL tires are the same diameter (+/-3%) with relation to each other, then larger or smaller tires will not affect the operation of ABS. Basically, ABS doesn't care how fast the wheels are spinning, just as long as all 4 are spinning at the same rate.