My short-winded treatise on Internet Einsteins
12-13-2003, 12:25 PM
#21
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You don't even track your car and refuse to enter it into the SCer challenge because you have to "retune it for lower sea levels." Then Bonz here drops the bombshell several months later that he has been TS flashed and is going to add the J&S as are you. So tell me again how perfect this stock ATI FMU kit is? We are no idiots man.
I'm not saying the stock ATI kit is perfect. Obviously within the last couple of months some problems have been found out with timing that we didn't know about before. Thus the reason I'm adding the J&S.
Bonz has an ECU flash, but his ECU does not have total control of fuel and timing. Neither one of us has kept it a secret that we wish to modify our Procharged cars to prevent any possible problems that others have seen. You guys just don't get it. I'm not saying the TS flash is bad. It has some use. I would use it to allow control of larger injectors in an N/A setting. However, I feel it lacks the necessary sensors to make the 350Z reliable under changing conditions for forced Induction.
The reason I'm being rude is because you guys keep bringing up stuff that is totally irrelevant, and then you use these comments as a basis for an argument.
12-13-2003, 12:35 PM
#22
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Originally posted by elektrik_juggernaut
There's actually a very old thread where a Nissan engineer says how the adabtability can be proven......he says to do a smog test before the mod, then after the mod with several hundred miles on it......if the emissions are the same, then the adaption has taken place
There's actually a very old thread where a Nissan engineer says how the adabtability can be proven......he says to do a smog test before the mod, then after the mod with several hundred miles on it......if the emissions are the same, then the adaption has taken place
I have no problem with the fact that you'd need to have the ECU reflashed when you add a mod to the car. That makes total sense to me, just that the ECU might not be able to adapt to things that happen during everyday driving.
12-13-2003, 01:23 PM
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Jesse,
I understand that most of you guys are new to this level of engine mods. But I must say that several people have pointed out to you that this information is all ready out there. People have done these mods a million times over. I know that this fourm is a place of learning and questions will be asked. However every question anyone can think of has been answered. It just needs to be located by the person that wants to know. Posting is a quick way to get a answer but, the info on this board is painfully wrong 80% of the time. Alot of people take what is posted here mix it with their understanding of how things work and come up with a idea that they think is right and try to apply it on their car or in response to others questions which just dilutes the truth farther.
In response to the Reflashed ecu Question. The Mass air flow sensor measures just that Air Mass. Every inteneral Combustion engine makes power based on the amount of air mass that it can burn. Boost effects the amount of air mass but is independent of it. Let me use an example to explain.
Say an engine has to burn 10lbs of air a minute to create 1hp. If a motor inhales through a 1 inch pipe 40lbs of air a minute at 10psi of boost to make 4hp it still take 40lbs of air a minute to do so. If the same motor inhales through a 2 inch pipe 40lbs of air a mintue at 5psi of boost it still takes 40lbs to make 4hp. Now the numbers are no where near real it's just an example to show how it works.
The Mass Air flow sensor measures the Mass of air gone but not the boost because in this system it does not need to know that information. It then looks at RPM and figures out how much load is on the motor and adjust timing and fuel based on that. It also can sense Temp change by seeing more Air Mass going by due to the denser air and add fuel/pull timing if thats what the maps say to do. There is alot more to this Coolant temp and of course the factory O2 play a part under close loop operation as well as other factors. Lots of factory cars run boost with no map sensor the DSM cars are one example. Sorry about the long post, there is so much more to this but this isn't the place to write it all. Hope this helps.
Gary
I understand that most of you guys are new to this level of engine mods. But I must say that several people have pointed out to you that this information is all ready out there. People have done these mods a million times over. I know that this fourm is a place of learning and questions will be asked. However every question anyone can think of has been answered. It just needs to be located by the person that wants to know. Posting is a quick way to get a answer but, the info on this board is painfully wrong 80% of the time. Alot of people take what is posted here mix it with their understanding of how things work and come up with a idea that they think is right and try to apply it on their car or in response to others questions which just dilutes the truth farther.
In response to the Reflashed ecu Question. The Mass air flow sensor measures just that Air Mass. Every inteneral Combustion engine makes power based on the amount of air mass that it can burn. Boost effects the amount of air mass but is independent of it. Let me use an example to explain.
Say an engine has to burn 10lbs of air a minute to create 1hp. If a motor inhales through a 1 inch pipe 40lbs of air a minute at 10psi of boost to make 4hp it still take 40lbs of air a minute to do so. If the same motor inhales through a 2 inch pipe 40lbs of air a mintue at 5psi of boost it still takes 40lbs to make 4hp. Now the numbers are no where near real it's just an example to show how it works.
The Mass Air flow sensor measures the Mass of air gone but not the boost because in this system it does not need to know that information. It then looks at RPM and figures out how much load is on the motor and adjust timing and fuel based on that. It also can sense Temp change by seeing more Air Mass going by due to the denser air and add fuel/pull timing if thats what the maps say to do. There is alot more to this Coolant temp and of course the factory O2 play a part under close loop operation as well as other factors. Lots of factory cars run boost with no map sensor the DSM cars are one example. Sorry about the long post, there is so much more to this but this isn't the place to write it all. Hope this helps.
Gary
Last edited by 7 eleven; 12-13-2003 at 01:28 PM.
12-13-2003, 01:50 PM
#24
Originally posted by 12SecZ
Bonz I corrected Jesse that I wasn't the first to try my setup I like him as a person.
I am not trying to argue. You think the kit is good, so do I. But not in stock form as sold. Not only are you retarding the timing but it was also recently revealed by you that you are TS flashed!
Bonz I corrected Jesse that I wasn't the first to try my setup I like him as a person.
I am not trying to argue. You think the kit is good, so do I. But not in stock form as sold. Not only are you retarding the timing but it was also recently revealed by you that you are TS flashed!
Max, I'm not purposely hounding you here...but since when is Bonz running with a TS ecu flash? AFAIK he has AA reflash his ecu, which really was only to raise the rev limit. Once again, it seems like you're trying to stir something up...if not, I will apologize. The fact that Bonz had AA simply raise the rev limit does nothing to substantiate what I think you're trying to imply here.
12-13-2003, 01:51 PM
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7 eleven,
I understand all that, but factory FI engines with no MAP have a MAF that is calibrated to measure the amount of air the turbo or SC can create or if aftermarket, the MAF is replaced with one that can. Our stock MAF is designed for an N/A application. By increasing the air pressure you're increasing the Air mass, possibly beyond the capabilities of our hotwire MAF to measure.
You're right though, I don't know if the MAF and ECU can properly measure the increased air mass, and it's something I should've looked into before posting my treatise.
I understand all that, but factory FI engines with no MAP have a MAF that is calibrated to measure the amount of air the turbo or SC can create or if aftermarket, the MAF is replaced with one that can. Our stock MAF is designed for an N/A application. By increasing the air pressure you're increasing the Air mass, possibly beyond the capabilities of our hotwire MAF to measure.
You're right though, I don't know if the MAF and ECU can properly measure the increased air mass, and it's something I should've looked into before posting my treatise.
Last edited by jesseenglish; 12-13-2003 at 01:55 PM.
12-13-2003, 01:57 PM
#26
Originally posted by 7 eleven
The Mass Air flow sensor measures the Mass of air gone but not the boost because in this system it does not need to know that information. It then looks at RPM and figures out how much load is on the motor and adjust timing and fuel based on that. It also can sense Temp change by seeing more Air Mass going by due to the denser air and add fuel/pull timing if thats what the maps say to do. There is alot more to this Coolant temp and of course the factory O2 play a part under close loop operation as well as other factors. Lots of factory cars run boost with no map sensor the DSM cars are one example. Sorry about the long post, there is so much more to this but this isn't the place to write it all. Hope this helps.
Gary
The Mass Air flow sensor measures the Mass of air gone but not the boost because in this system it does not need to know that information. It then looks at RPM and figures out how much load is on the motor and adjust timing and fuel based on that. It also can sense Temp change by seeing more Air Mass going by due to the denser air and add fuel/pull timing if thats what the maps say to do. There is alot more to this Coolant temp and of course the factory O2 play a part under close loop operation as well as other factors. Lots of factory cars run boost with no map sensor the DSM cars are one example. Sorry about the long post, there is so much more to this but this isn't the place to write it all. Hope this helps.
Gary
12-13-2003, 01:58 PM
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I'm pretty sure That TS would have told MAX or the other guys if they were close to maxing out the sensor. Since they have hacked the ECU they could with little trouble plug in a larger Mass Air and reprogram the ecu to read it, for a fee of course.
Gary
Gary
12-13-2003, 02:04 PM
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The VPC is good for that and getting rid of the restriction that a MAF causes. The 300zx had a great MAF it could handle alot of flow before it maxed out. The supra went to about 500hp before it would max out. It would be easy to see how close you are just find the MAF output and measure it to see if it's close, most cars are a 0-5v signal.
Gary
Gary
12-13-2003, 02:56 PM
#29
Has anybody checked the MAF to see what its doing? Personally, I wouldn't assume anything whether its coming from TS or someone else. TS doesn't seem to be talking, so I would assume the worst rather than taking a chance...just IMHO.
I'd tap into mine and log it, but I don't know when I'll have the time to set it up to work with my logger. I know it can be done, but I'll have to see how much trouble it will be.
I'd tap into mine and log it, but I don't know when I'll have the time to set it up to work with my logger. I know it can be done, but I'll have to see how much trouble it will be.
12-13-2003, 03:38 PM
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Now we're getting somewhere........may i suggest something Gary?.......you might want to log the data from the temp sensor that's also a part of the MAF assembly.......just so you can see everything that the ECM looks at from that angle
12-13-2003, 05:37 PM
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Gary et al,
I am not trying to start anything, if you think I am please listen, I am not! I do not want a "war." Last thing on earth I want, trust me. Please stop implying that ok? It is simply untrue.
Now, you are correct I do tend to mention TS and Tectom as one in the same. It's incorrect and wrong. I apologize. TS flashed my car using Tectom so to ME TS is Techtom. Others have admitted they didn’t know that others were flashing too. For me it was a very simple and easy mistake to make.
To be clear Mike has the box and the program right? Tadishi has the box and the program but he is a programmer and has been to Japan several times to research this, including research on the P.E. TT Kit being run by the P.E. injectors with a Techtom flash. I guess we should just call it Techtom? I paid for the ECU flash and you are right Mike can flash ECU's but the real knowledge is in Tadishi’s programs he maps right? You just can't buy that knowledge and as a business man I understand why he doesn't release it. So perhaps we can just start referring to it as the Techtom flash to avoid confusion? I assure you I don't do it on purpose if that is what you think OK?
Now,
I linked to the Japanese Engineering reflash advice thread and the emissions long ago did anyone even go read the thread? It's a good read! I also got a call today from the P.E. TS (Techtom) ECU owner in Chicago and he is following these threads. He said this. He had his car flashed to power the P.E. injectors in 70 degree weather and got x reading for fuel, 11. something I think. That was long b4 I even went and flashed. It is now 30-40 degrees there and guess what? He is still at the exact same reading of 11. something. He can also drive to N.C. to visit relatives and get x for fuel, he has a wideband. Surely that must mean something? What he and I have in common is quite extensive that is why we talk. Not just cars but other stuff too. But along the lines of cars he also tried the RC Engineering injectors like I did with poor results. I paid 653.00 I believe for my 6 RC injectors. Perhaps our car just likes the P.E. injectors? These weird things happen. He is running a different program than I and different plugs. It is all these different programs that Tadashi has that make him such a valuable resource. Danny at TS will talk to you or AIM with people or whatever and explain what works and what doesn't and why to the best of his knowledge he is a very nice young man and very intelligent. When I read him the first post by Jesse he simply said during parts of it, “that’s just not true.” They are Japanese techs and engineers there!
Also the Ultimate Z car owner has invited just as I have *anyone* to come log data from his. No one has taken us up on it. His 6MT runs perfect as does mine. He also has access to a $4500.00 Consult 2. So you can come here and log data, you can go to Chicago and log data, you can call Danny at TS, you can call Chris at Ultimate Z, there are allot of options other than these forum spats. Maybe you are Jesse should check it out? I’m looking into the J&S but I may not need it I am finding out.
I will tell you why I mentioned Bonzs’ flash (although I said TS instead of Techtom and apologized.)
Don't you think that getting the stock kit with Aeromotive FMU and getting tuned and then raising the rev limiter to 7100 is very dangerous w/o the J&S? Why was that done you think? Others here (G3Po and more) have said it is. Forgive me, I thought there was a basic program you could run that did a bunch of stuff, I didn’t know you had to be a programmer to operate the thing. That is the “don’t care” part of me. If it works I am cool with it. It doesn’t make sense to me to run it just to bump up to 7100 on FI only!
Others have said that raising the rev limiter automatically alters the timing. And yet a 3rd party said that Mike at AA *does* do the timing and his techs all know about it. Now, if you had a Techtom would *you* raise the rev limiter to 7100 only and not change anything else? This person who told me this lost an engine and it's a big ugly mess. So allot of theories, some possible rumors and some stuff I haven’t seen like J&S. What I have seen is my setup working and that is what I spend my time talking about because when I lost my engine lots of people parked their cars and they have questions now like “is it safe?” My answer is always the same. In my opinion in stock form the kit is not safe and I will never falter on that no matter how many technical notices are posted.
What we have here is a bunch of people driving Z's. If there are 3 solutions that is great, supply and demand and maybe prices will go down on theses fixes agreed? I do not think there will only be one fix. What I do think honestly though is in the summer allot of people will be running a TS program with larger injectors on FI! Not just ATI either.
Mine works, I assume the J&S works, I don't know much about it. I do not see any reason why it wouldn't work I like it and if I had 500.00 bucks I would buy it and find out more about it. It wasn't being talked about when I made my decision to flash. As it turns out I got good advice from Chebosto and TS and Ultimate Z and ZED and my car runs good too so I consider it a done deal. I have been boosting heavily for 3-4k miles now from 75 to almost 30 degree whether and my engine hasn't blown and I never even had to dyno one time. I consider it a success. So let's put all of this data together from all of these threads and work together instead of bashing each other. There seems to be a crab mentality at times. We all drive Z's we all paid good money for FI and we all want it right. I feel mine is right and I keep seeming to have to defend that and I won't anymore period. I have given you several resources above to look into if you are interested. If you are not interested simply say so. Why are you starting each thread with a negative comment about me? What have I ever done to you Gary? We have never even met.
I am not trying to start anything, if you think I am please listen, I am not! I do not want a "war." Last thing on earth I want, trust me. Please stop implying that ok? It is simply untrue.
Now, you are correct I do tend to mention TS and Tectom as one in the same. It's incorrect and wrong. I apologize. TS flashed my car using Tectom so to ME TS is Techtom. Others have admitted they didn’t know that others were flashing too. For me it was a very simple and easy mistake to make.
To be clear Mike has the box and the program right? Tadishi has the box and the program but he is a programmer and has been to Japan several times to research this, including research on the P.E. TT Kit being run by the P.E. injectors with a Techtom flash. I guess we should just call it Techtom? I paid for the ECU flash and you are right Mike can flash ECU's but the real knowledge is in Tadishi’s programs he maps right? You just can't buy that knowledge and as a business man I understand why he doesn't release it. So perhaps we can just start referring to it as the Techtom flash to avoid confusion? I assure you I don't do it on purpose if that is what you think OK?
Now,
I linked to the Japanese Engineering reflash advice thread and the emissions long ago did anyone even go read the thread? It's a good read! I also got a call today from the P.E. TS (Techtom) ECU owner in Chicago and he is following these threads. He said this. He had his car flashed to power the P.E. injectors in 70 degree weather and got x reading for fuel, 11. something I think. That was long b4 I even went and flashed. It is now 30-40 degrees there and guess what? He is still at the exact same reading of 11. something. He can also drive to N.C. to visit relatives and get x for fuel, he has a wideband. Surely that must mean something? What he and I have in common is quite extensive that is why we talk. Not just cars but other stuff too. But along the lines of cars he also tried the RC Engineering injectors like I did with poor results. I paid 653.00 I believe for my 6 RC injectors. Perhaps our car just likes the P.E. injectors? These weird things happen. He is running a different program than I and different plugs. It is all these different programs that Tadashi has that make him such a valuable resource. Danny at TS will talk to you or AIM with people or whatever and explain what works and what doesn't and why to the best of his knowledge he is a very nice young man and very intelligent. When I read him the first post by Jesse he simply said during parts of it, “that’s just not true.” They are Japanese techs and engineers there!
Also the Ultimate Z car owner has invited just as I have *anyone* to come log data from his. No one has taken us up on it. His 6MT runs perfect as does mine. He also has access to a $4500.00 Consult 2. So you can come here and log data, you can go to Chicago and log data, you can call Danny at TS, you can call Chris at Ultimate Z, there are allot of options other than these forum spats. Maybe you are Jesse should check it out? I’m looking into the J&S but I may not need it I am finding out.
I will tell you why I mentioned Bonzs’ flash (although I said TS instead of Techtom and apologized.)
Don't you think that getting the stock kit with Aeromotive FMU and getting tuned and then raising the rev limiter to 7100 is very dangerous w/o the J&S? Why was that done you think? Others here (G3Po and more) have said it is. Forgive me, I thought there was a basic program you could run that did a bunch of stuff, I didn’t know you had to be a programmer to operate the thing. That is the “don’t care” part of me. If it works I am cool with it. It doesn’t make sense to me to run it just to bump up to 7100 on FI only!
Others have said that raising the rev limiter automatically alters the timing. And yet a 3rd party said that Mike at AA *does* do the timing and his techs all know about it. Now, if you had a Techtom would *you* raise the rev limiter to 7100 only and not change anything else? This person who told me this lost an engine and it's a big ugly mess. So allot of theories, some possible rumors and some stuff I haven’t seen like J&S. What I have seen is my setup working and that is what I spend my time talking about because when I lost my engine lots of people parked their cars and they have questions now like “is it safe?” My answer is always the same. In my opinion in stock form the kit is not safe and I will never falter on that no matter how many technical notices are posted.
What we have here is a bunch of people driving Z's. If there are 3 solutions that is great, supply and demand and maybe prices will go down on theses fixes agreed? I do not think there will only be one fix. What I do think honestly though is in the summer allot of people will be running a TS program with larger injectors on FI! Not just ATI either.
Mine works, I assume the J&S works, I don't know much about it. I do not see any reason why it wouldn't work I like it and if I had 500.00 bucks I would buy it and find out more about it. It wasn't being talked about when I made my decision to flash. As it turns out I got good advice from Chebosto and TS and Ultimate Z and ZED and my car runs good too so I consider it a done deal. I have been boosting heavily for 3-4k miles now from 75 to almost 30 degree whether and my engine hasn't blown and I never even had to dyno one time. I consider it a success. So let's put all of this data together from all of these threads and work together instead of bashing each other. There seems to be a crab mentality at times. We all drive Z's we all paid good money for FI and we all want it right. I feel mine is right and I keep seeming to have to defend that and I won't anymore period. I have given you several resources above to look into if you are interested. If you are not interested simply say so. Why are you starting each thread with a negative comment about me? What have I ever done to you Gary? We have never even met.
12-13-2003, 06:31 PM
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Max,
One small correction, my AF/ratio was 11 at 80 degrees. Yesterday (3000 miles later and 12 degrees outside) it was still 11. BTW - One of my original questions to my tuner was “did I need to upgrade my MAF”. I was told that this would not be an issue with the 350z MAF. I don’t remember the specific numbers of hand but my MAF was not close to being maxed out with the ATI supercharger. Hopefully, after GaryK does his study on the MAF this information will be confirmed. If anyone in Chicago needs a car to log with please get in touch with me. Good luck to everyone.
Zed
One small correction, my AF/ratio was 11 at 80 degrees. Yesterday (3000 miles later and 12 degrees outside) it was still 11. BTW - One of my original questions to my tuner was “did I need to upgrade my MAF”. I was told that this would not be an issue with the 350z MAF. I don’t remember the specific numbers of hand but my MAF was not close to being maxed out with the ATI supercharger. Hopefully, after GaryK does his study on the MAF this information will be confirmed. If anyone in Chicago needs a car to log with please get in touch with me. Good luck to everyone.
Zed
12-13-2003, 06:33 PM
#33
Max, I don't have time right now to address everything in your post. I will say a couple quick things. Take it however you want. You are somewhat hypocritical, in that you try to dog others for the same things you do on this board. I'll leave it at that.
Now, this TS/Techtom terminology thing is an example of why I try to correct you. Its nothing personal, I'm just trying to keep others from getting bad information by sharing what I know. Which is quite the contrary to your some of your accusations of me, but that is beside the point. Based on what you post, you don't have a very good understanding of some of the things you bring up. In this case, the TS ecu programs and the ability of another tuner to reprogram the ecu using the Techtom hardware and software. Regardless of your level of knowledge and understanding, people here are listening to you because you are spending money. But, you blindly support the equipment you run and send the wrong message about other solutions.
Having the ability to reflash an ecu does not mean you just hit a key and it loads the program with all the necessary changes. That is all up to the tuner. And each tuner that creates programs will have spent a lot of time learning what needs to be changed. Not all "ecu reflashes" are created equal, so yes, you should stop lumping it all together. One guy might get an extensive list of changes done with the reflash, including timing, fuel, rev limiters, etc. But somebody else, like Bonz or myself, might have an ecu reflash that does nothing but raise the rev limit or remove the top speed limit. Why did AA only do that? Probably because they didn't see a need to do more at the time on a stock kit, but I honestly don't know.
You worded the post that I quoted as if you were trying to say that even Bonz, who supports the side that says nothing is "wrong" with the ATI kit, is already doing something to correct a problem in the kit. All I'm saying is that is not the case. You say you weren't trying to do anything, but were just confused. That's fine...if that really is the case then I'm sorry I thought otherwise.
Now, this TS/Techtom terminology thing is an example of why I try to correct you. Its nothing personal, I'm just trying to keep others from getting bad information by sharing what I know. Which is quite the contrary to your some of your accusations of me, but that is beside the point. Based on what you post, you don't have a very good understanding of some of the things you bring up. In this case, the TS ecu programs and the ability of another tuner to reprogram the ecu using the Techtom hardware and software. Regardless of your level of knowledge and understanding, people here are listening to you because you are spending money. But, you blindly support the equipment you run and send the wrong message about other solutions.
Having the ability to reflash an ecu does not mean you just hit a key and it loads the program with all the necessary changes. That is all up to the tuner. And each tuner that creates programs will have spent a lot of time learning what needs to be changed. Not all "ecu reflashes" are created equal, so yes, you should stop lumping it all together. One guy might get an extensive list of changes done with the reflash, including timing, fuel, rev limiters, etc. But somebody else, like Bonz or myself, might have an ecu reflash that does nothing but raise the rev limit or remove the top speed limit. Why did AA only do that? Probably because they didn't see a need to do more at the time on a stock kit, but I honestly don't know.
You worded the post that I quoted as if you were trying to say that even Bonz, who supports the side that says nothing is "wrong" with the ATI kit, is already doing something to correct a problem in the kit. All I'm saying is that is not the case. You say you weren't trying to do anything, but were just confused. That's fine...if that really is the case then I'm sorry I thought otherwise.
12-13-2003, 10:24 PM
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Zed,
I asked the same thing and they said "no, not at all." "You may want to go to a larger fuel pump if you ever go to 9 lbs." I took these guys as straight shooters and others can vouch for them here. I don't think they lied to me, they were very profesional!
Those are direct quotes. So I did buy a bigger fuel pump.
Man, 12 degrees outside and still 11.? I simply am amazed by that. Thanks for posting it will help others see the other side.
I am growing tired of taking a beating in this thread simply to help others as it changes like the wind every day lol.
One other point (and I will be ignoring the belittling coming from Gary K from here on out in every thread)
Changing the timing is not a "correction?"
One step backwards again.
I asked the same thing and they said "no, not at all." "You may want to go to a larger fuel pump if you ever go to 9 lbs." I took these guys as straight shooters and others can vouch for them here. I don't think they lied to me, they were very profesional!
Those are direct quotes. So I did buy a bigger fuel pump.
Man, 12 degrees outside and still 11.? I simply am amazed by that. Thanks for posting it will help others see the other side.
I am growing tired of taking a beating in this thread simply to help others as it changes like the wind every day lol.
One other point (and I will be ignoring the belittling coming from Gary K from here on out in every thread)
You worded the post that I quoted as if you were trying to say that even Bonz, who supports the side that says nothing is "wrong" with the ATI kit, is already doing something to correct a problem in the kit. All I'm saying is that is not the case.
One step backwards again.
12-13-2003, 11:33 PM
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okay.......jesse and garyK......you now have an open invitation to log all of the data you want from a Procharged Z with a TS reflash.......now is your chance to do the research and get the numbers you've been seeking.....if you get some scary numbers, please let us know.......if you don't, then this exercise in speculation will have been for nothing.......please take this opportunity to get the data that you need to either make or break your argument.......because without this data, it is still just speculation
12-14-2003, 03:40 AM
#37
Originally posted by 12SecZ
Changing the timing is not a "correction?"
One step backwards again.
Changing the timing is not a "correction?"
One step backwards again.
You have made more than one comment in this thread, and others, implying that there is some problem with the fmu. From above:
Then Bonz here drops the bombshell several months later that he has been TS flashed and is going to add the J&S as are you. So tell me again how perfect this stock ATI FMU kit is? We are no idiots man.
Arguing with you is like banging your head against the wall.
12-14-2003, 03:57 AM
#38
Originally posted by elektrik_juggernaut
okay.......jesse and garyK......you now have an open invitation to log all of the data you want from a Procharged Z with a TS reflash.......now is your chance to do the research and get the numbers you've been seeking.....if you get some scary numbers, please let us know.......if you don't, then this exercise in speculation will have been for nothing.......please take this opportunity to get the data that you need to either make or break your argument.......because without this data, it is still just speculation
okay.......jesse and garyK......you now have an open invitation to log all of the data you want from a Procharged Z with a TS reflash.......now is your chance to do the research and get the numbers you've been seeking.....if you get some scary numbers, please let us know.......if you don't, then this exercise in speculation will have been for nothing.......please take this opportunity to get the data that you need to either make or break your argument.......because without this data, it is still just speculation
I'm going to reiterate again. This all started with a post that was an attempt to inform people of some possible scenarios with the currently available engine control solutions. It was not meant to say that there is absolutely a problem with any particular solution, but there are some things you might want to think about before buying. Call it what you want, but basing your stance on a handful of TS cars without knowing how they're getting around some potential problems is just as must speculation as anything.
I hope the TS solution turns out to be better than we all expected. To be honest, I don't have an argument to prove. I'm openminded about things, and try to make informed decisions. Based on what I know at this point I don't put full trust in the TS reflash. I've used J&S before myself, and it has been proven over and over again to be invaluable for doing what it is designed to do. Look, you guys feel like you got burned by ATI, and now you're blindly trusting another company. The reason I got involved was because Jesse originally brought up some very valid concerns. If you don't want to worry about those things, fine. But, I would think you guys would want to explore these things more before dismissing them.
On edit: Just so you know, I will be checking into the MAF output question. I still don't have a good way to log rpm, but I'm purchasing what I need to do so. After I get that, I'll set it up to log a/f ratio, rpm, and MAF output. I might even be able to log boost with it, which would be nice, but I can just check the peak value on my boost gauge to find out what the max boost was.
Last edited by GaryK; 12-14-2003 at 04:05 AM.
12-14-2003, 07:58 AM
#39
Then Bonz here drops the bombshell several months later that he has been TS flashed and is going to add the J&S
Max WTF are you talking about??? As I have said REPEATEDLY, all I have is the increase in the rev limiter to 7100. No timing changes, no fuel changes. You ask, why would someone do ONLY this? Because, as I hope you know, bouncing off of the rev limiter and cutting fuel to your engine IS A VERY BAD THING with the Procharger. I simply had it raised so this is less likely to happen.
As for me "dropping a bombshell" again, you are WAY off base. I have written about this since August when I first posted about picking up my car! Hardly a "bombshell".
Look at this thread and my post on page 2 dated AUGUST 18th!
When I FIRST mentioned the ECU flash
In case you missed THAT thread back then, you could have also seen mention of the 7100 rev limiter flash here too:
Looky Here Max
In the future, please do some research or at least ask some questions before making stupid statements like this.
12-14-2003, 12:45 PM
#40
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I understand all that, but factory FI engines with no MAP have a MAF that is calibrated to measure the amount of air the turbo or SC can create or if aftermarket, the MAF is replaced with one that can. Our stock MAF is designed for an N/A application. By increasing the air pressure you're increasing the Air mass, possibly beyond the capabilities of our hotwire MAF to measure