T-Squared + Cams + more = poor dyno #s???
#61
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Also, make sure you dont have any vaccum hoses loose
Start with the simple stuff first......if you have a good isntaller, he'll easily be able to go through the checklist of potential areas of concern (fuel pressure, spark, base ignition timing, etc. etc.
#62
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Originally posted by Z1 Performance
Having extensively datalogged my own car, I can tell you that A/F's are in the mid 12's by and large in WOT conditions. I dont much care what its doing at othe times, so I have not logged cruise or idle conditions.
Having extensively datalogged my own car, I can tell you that A/F's are in the mid 12's by and large in WOT conditions. I dont much care what its doing at othe times, so I have not logged cruise or idle conditions.
Originally posted by Z1 Performance
He has made changes to when his valves not only open and close, but how long they remain open for...that requires more fuel no matter how you slice it.
He has made changes to when his valves not only open and close, but how long they remain open for...that requires more fuel no matter how you slice it.
I agree tho.. the only way to solve this is with data and adapting the programming.. I'm anti-canned programing.
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Show me a datalog that shows the car uses 02 sensor feedback during WOT.
I am not particularly interested in what ATI has to say on the matter...I would hardly call them an authority at this point.
I don't understand what you mean about "more fuel delivery"..are you referring to more volume or more pressure?
Also, most of the dynos you see with A/F references are measuring it at the tail pipe (wideband on the calamp that goes onto teh stock exhaust....IIRC, mcduck measures his on one side of the ehxaust manifold....totally different ballgame (again without getting into what kind of sensor...I don't think for purposes of this discussion that even needs to enter into the discussion!
I am not particularly interested in what ATI has to say on the matter...I would hardly call them an authority at this point.
I don't understand what you mean about "more fuel delivery"..are you referring to more volume or more pressure?
Also, most of the dynos you see with A/F references are measuring it at the tail pipe (wideband on the calamp that goes onto teh stock exhaust....IIRC, mcduck measures his on one side of the ehxaust manifold....totally different ballgame (again without getting into what kind of sensor...I don't think for purposes of this discussion that even needs to enter into the discussion!
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 12-14-2003 at 04:25 PM.
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Originally posted by flynnibus
Its the other way.. the car runs in 'open loop' mode (no input) when cold. Once its come up to operating temp.. the ECU starts listening to the o2 sensors to tries to adapt for o2 levels in the exhaust.. and adjusts fuel to try to return to its 'ideal' level.
Its the other way.. the car runs in 'open loop' mode (no input) when cold. Once its come up to operating temp.. the ECU starts listening to the o2 sensors to tries to adapt for o2 levels in the exhaust.. and adjusts fuel to try to return to its 'ideal' level.
#65
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Originally posted by Z1 Performance
show me a datlog that shos the car uses 02 sensor feedback during WOT.
show me a datlog that shos the car uses 02 sensor feedback during WOT.
Originally posted by Z1 Performance
I don't understand what you mean about "more fuel delivery"..are you referring to more volume or more pressure?
I don't understand what you mean about "more fuel delivery"..are you referring to more volume or more pressure?
How TS or the stock ECU accounts for cams I do not know. But since air and fuel are coming through the same opening left open longer by the cams.. it should be a homogeneus change (as long as the duty cycle on the injectors can handle the longer pulse). Its not like you are opening up for more air and not more fuel. How else could Nissan offer cams without a ECU change?
Where did mcduck say he was using a manifold tap? I bet he's using a tailpipe sensor. They didn't talk about tapping into his stock o2 bung.. and this shop wasn't tryiing to do tuning.. just a dyno pull.
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Z1 are you thinking that mcduck has the more aggressive Tomei cams? Unless he changed at some point he is still running the less aggressive Nismo cams. If you are unsure of facts such as where the A/F is being measured then we need to just ask mcduck. So, where was the A/F ratio being measured during the Dyno run? Also, how long was the TS ECU in the car before the Dyno? Had you run the car for any length of time with the TS ECU before attempting the Dyno? I only ask because even though the flashed ECU is "setup" for your mods, there may still be some adjusting happening with the ECU that either occurred or may not have occurred yet. I have always wondered about this since TS can not stop the ECU from adjusting, they can only retard the amount of adjusting it makes.
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Not sure if mcduck is monitoring still or if he caught another flight.
I was in the garage when the ECU went back in mcduck's car. He picked it up Friday afternoon and we dynoed Saturday early afternoon. So, not to many miles on the ECU before the dyno.
He has the Nismo cams, and the A/F was taken at the tail pipe.
I was in the garage when the ECU went back in mcduck's car. He picked it up Friday afternoon and we dynoed Saturday early afternoon. So, not to many miles on the ECU before the dyno.
He has the Nismo cams, and the A/F was taken at the tail pipe.
#68
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After the 301 rwhp dyno on the Mustang Dynomometer, Richard added the Crawford Plenum, RT High-Flow Cats, Grounding Kit, and TS ECU Flash. With everything, he got 276.5 rwhp on a Dynojet.
#69
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If anything, the timing concern should only be about whats the proper setup given your cams.. and since TS has done other nismo cam cars.. I would hope that portion would be correct. If anything, the only thing that would be going on is ultra conservative timing leading to low numbers.. but if you can find a datalogger, you could look at that.
I'd start at the basics.. look at how the engine is running.. check your plugs.. check your airflow.. then play from there. You don't have a really odd combination of parts so its not like you are off in left field. I'd swap a stock ECU if I could (wonder if you can get by the key transmitter by just having the key by your ignition...).. reset.. and start experimenting there.
Question for anyone... is it possible to swap ECUs? I know there is a theft deterent built in. If this were possible, I could swap in Morris's ECU (still factory stock) and see how the car looks with stock settings.
A/F setting...
Okay... now I have debate raging on whether A/F should be 12.5 or 13.0 or 13.5.... anyone know for sure. I thought this was a very reasonable area to scrutinize because another of my car's symptoms is stalling as it comes down from high RPMs really fast as I described in a prior post. Much gas & little air when it winds back down... engine bogs, then stalls... Maybe the A/F should begin around 13.5 (at lower RPM ranges), then work its way down to 12.5?????
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Eric1h...
We made sure to let all the cars run at idles for several minutes before dynoing. I think mine ran for something like 10 minutes. It should have been sufficiently warmed up.
However, his cams are a bit more agressive (IIRC than the NISMO's, which are said to not need any fuel changes at all).
I'm just comparing to the other A/F enabled baselines posted here. I don't have an ORB2 for my car, nor did I A/F on my stock dynos. All the stock dynos I've looked at here are mostly in the 13s.. dipping to the 12s as you near redline. A dyno pull is at WOT so thats my basis.
So, where was the A/F ratio being measured during the Dyno run? Also, how long was the TS ECU in the car before the Dyno? Had you run the car for any length of time with the TS ECU before attempting the Dyno?
The TS ECU was in the car for a day. I put about 120 miles on the car prior to dynoing.
#70
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After the 301 rwhp dyno on the Mustang Dynomometer, Richard added the Crawford Plenum, RT High-Flow Cats, Grounding Kit, and TS ECU Flash. With everything, he got 276.5 rwhp on a Dynojet.
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Unrelated, but I see you're following this thread... email me some information on the bumper to radiator piece you have added. I'd like to see a pic and possibly get that for my car.
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#72
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Richard's car is definitely stronger with the plenum, cats and ECU. Tadashi at TechnoSquare said it pulls harder than any one he has ever driven. (No flames, please, I am just reporting what the man said.
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#73
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Richard's car is definitely stronger with the plenum, cats and ECU. Tadashi at TechnoSquare said it pulls harder than any one he has ever driven. (No flames, please, I am just reporting what the man said.
I cannot say the same of my Z as Tadashi has stated above. Looking at my graphs, it is clear between my prior run and my more recent run, I am the same or slightly lower for non-peak power.
MORRIS! Can you email me my dyno runs from that diskette? If so, I'll post the two curves so everyone can see my whole range.
I'd be happy with the 252 number if we could see significant gains in non-peak power... but they are not there either!
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#74
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Originally posted by Jim Jones
After the 301 rwhp dyno on the Mustang Dynomometer, Richard added the Crawford Plenum, RT High-Flow Cats, Grounding Kit, and TS ECU Flash. With everything, he got 276.5 rwhp on a Dynojet.
After the 301 rwhp dyno on the Mustang Dynomometer, Richard added the Crawford Plenum, RT High-Flow Cats, Grounding Kit, and TS ECU Flash. With everything, he got 276.5 rwhp on a Dynojet.
Other mustangs do not show anywhere near the variation that the Mossy dyno showed. That dyno is damn near infamous.
Mustangs tend to show LOWER numbers then dynojets. Mossy's is just a freak.
Don't believe everything you read on the web.. but you can find tons of discussions about this.. from the dyno makers themselves.. to shops.. to other forums (BMW, etc)
Here's just a sample
http://www.activeautowerke.com/dyno/...gVsDynojet.asp
http://www.slugbitchracing.com/mach1_dyno_data.shtml
http://www.hondaswap.com/~pills/mustangvsdynojet.html
Last edited by flynnibus; 12-14-2003 at 02:39 PM.
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Originally posted by mcduck
Unrelated, but I see you're following this thread... email me some information on the bumper to radiator piece you have added. I'd like to see a pic and possibly get that for my car.
Unrelated, but I see you're following this thread... email me some information on the bumper to radiator piece you have added. I'd like to see a pic and possibly get that for my car.
![Big Grin](https://my350z.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
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You can order from my site www.extremespeedonline.com/shop/
They are $70 without the Z logo, and $80 w/logo Plus shipping - $5
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Originally posted by ravaz
Eric,
Your engine looks too clean![Smilie](https://my350z.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Bill
Eric,
Your engine looks too clean
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Bill
LOL, thats because its IN my car and NOT in the back of my truck
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Actually, I hardly drive the car, so its easy to keep the engine clean! besides, I'm a neat freak when its comes to my cars!
#78
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oh yeah! That will look great with my polished pieces. Will be ordering mine in the next few days!
Maybe that will lighten my mode from the dyno debacle!
Maybe that will lighten my mode from the dyno debacle!
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#79
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Greg Vogel rented the mobile Mustang Dyno for the day, when he hosted the Nissan show on Sept. 20. It does not belong to Mossy Nissan.
Here is my Mustang dyno before the plenum, hi-flow cats, grounding kit and ecu flash.
Here is my Mustang dyno before the plenum, hi-flow cats, grounding kit and ecu flash.