A lightweight Z would be sweet. Dont know how hard it would be on the given chassis, tho.

X

 

i'm being really unrealistic here, but it would be awesome if awd was an option for like $2k or $3k that could be added to any trim. imagine buying a base with the awd option only. it probably wouldn't be that much heavier than a fully loaded touring w/o awd.

 

So, let me see if I got this straight a bored and stroked version of the VQ35 is a "truck" motor? and is significantly heavier than the VQ35? I don't understand the logic of most of the people in this discussion.

1) the only difference between the actual shortblocks of the VQ35 and the VQ40 is most likely bore, new crank, pistons and rods.

2) is the VQ35 a truck engine? What is a "truck" engine? Because it's tuned for torque in this application? Many engines in sports cars share blocks and other engine parts with trucks. Hell the KA24 in the 240SX was a "truck" motor, too.

3) the part of the name that matters is Z, not 240, not 260, etc. The Z is and always will be the importance of the naming.

4) there is plenty of competition for the Z. In car marketing and government brackets, there are fewer. But in real life choices, there are several competitors already on the market or available later this year. Whether people want to admit it or not, a 4-door compact that can blow our doors off, is a competitor (read: STi/Evo) The new Mustang GT with 300hp, that will be a competitor.

5) Nissan could even offer the VQ40 in a top of the line model and leave the rest with the standard VQ35. Not saying it will happen, just possibilities.

6) I highly doubt the Z will ever be made with AWD from Nissan. The purists just won't let it happen. I would love it, but I am honest with myself about the likelihood. The fact that the G35c has it, doesn't make it any more likely. The gating factor is not technological, it is marketing and branding. I really hope I am wrong on this one.

7) I would not be surprised to see a hp bump of somekind for MY05. On the more typical 4-5 year model cycle Japanese car companies go by, this would be roughly half way.

D

 

I wouldn't be surprised if a VQ40 made it into the Z eventually. Depending on how they reached the 4.0 displacement, chances are high that the engine will weight the same as he 3.5 or less.

I do not think AWD is necessary on the Z, and I probably would not buy the Z if it only had AWD, but if there is an option for it I wouldn't care.

Personally, I think Nissan should clean up the balance of the car a bit, improve the ride (maybe the Euro susp has already solved that) and solidify the interior a bit (mine has a few too many rattles - although an improved suspension might fix that as well).

If they could trim 100 lbs that would be awesome as well.

I'm guessing that when toyota releases a Supra and Mazda releases an Rx-7, the 400Z will be released with another 30 HP or so.

-D'oh!

 

whether it matters to you or not, nissan isn't going to release a 4.0 liter car with a "350Z" emblem. that would be ludicrous. also ludicrous is the idea that they would introduce a new car branded "400Z" before the 350z generation ends. imo. summary: there will be no 4.0 liter z in 2005.

well you can define or interpret the meaning of the term "competition" however you want i guess. but there is no sports car in the 350z price range that offers the same performance besides the s2k (which has a $5k higher base price). more importantly, the z is selling really well. so whether other cars exist that could conceivably be classified as competition, they don't appear to be hurting z sales. i think that's the main point.


whereas nissan purists would be fine with a 4.0 liter *350* z.

the fact that the g35 has it does indeed make it more likely. whether that makes it *extremely* likely is a different story.

edit:
changed "absurd" to "ludicrous" as per xeinth's rolleyes

 

just to clarify i don't think a bump in hp is totally out of the question. (like i said in a previous post) esp if it comes in the form of a new higher power trim level in the z line. i just don't think it's necessary for 2005.

 

ml2316 is right. Nissan would never put a different engine in the Z without renaming it based on its displacement. Their entire marketing strategy is centered around that connection. It might alter the balance of the universe or something! Its just SO absurd, as he said.

X

 

I also agree that introducing a 400Z at this time would not be a good move. One thing people haven't considered is that the VQ35 can be tuned further. The VQ35 should easily hit 300 hp in NA form and it wouldn't be surprising if a twin turbo version is available in the future (remember the 300ZX TT)

 

I bet it's just going to be a race tuned Nismo version of the Z like that one Japanese article, or maybe something along that line. This is probably the most plausible way to make everyone happy.

1) New and potential Z buyers get the option of having a beefed up Z. Current Z's remain desirable because of the affordable price.

2.) Current Z owners are content with the fact that their Z's are not succeeded by a better model but instead it can be upgraded to to match or exceed the new "race version Z".

3.) Competition remains fierce.

 

ARTICFURY, most of your other points have been sufficiently answered, but I'll tackle these two:

1) Wrong. If the VQ40 is based on the VQ35, some modifications will be in order. For a "truck" engine, torque is the name of the game, and usable torque at that. You don't gain torque by increasing the bore; you increase the stroke. Increasing the stroke means that piston speeds become higher which means the maximum RPM range will decrease. It's ideal to make a majority of your torque in a truck by 1500 RPM (see Titan's V8)...this would make for a very dull sports car. Also, more torque means the block will have to be stiffer and the crankshaft heavier: more weight.

2) #1 above described what a "truck" engine is. Can you put a car engine in a truck? Yes. Is it a good idea? No. Why do you think Toyota and Nissan developed a brand-new V8 in order to get into the full-size truck market? They realized that the performance of a car engine is not what truck owners are looking for. A friend of mine has a 2001 Frontier with the 3.0L. It's OK, but not great on power or power delivery. The supercharged Frontiers are a little better, but it's clear this is a band-aid until a new engine arrives. Nissan will probably do the smart thing and build the VQ40 for a truck application from the get-go. It would certainly help the Frontier from struggling when towing stuff.

The new Titan is awesome, by the way. Plenty of towing power and lots of low-end grunt make it very responsive.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by archman350z
[B]ARTICFURY, most of your other points have been sufficiently answered, but I'll tackle these two:


2) #1 above described what a "truck" engine is. Can you put a car engine in a truck? Yes. Is it a good idea? No. Why do you think Toyota and Nissan developed a brand-new V8 in order to get into the full-size truck market? They realized that the performance of a car engine is not what truck owners are looking for. A friend of mine has a 2001 Frontier with the 3.0L. It's OK, but not great on power or power delivery. The supercharged Frontiers are a little better, but it's clear this is a band-aid until a new engine arrives. Nissan will probably do the smart thing and build the VQ40 for a truck application from the get-go. It would certainly help the Frontier from struggling when towing stuff.

Reply: "Band-aid" is a good word for it its just like what Nissan did in 92, they introduced the VE engine (modified VG with DOHC and other changes) in the Max unitil they go the VQ just right for 95.

 

on the other hand. it would be cool if there was a small hp increase that didn't greatly affect pricing. and i do have to admit that the existence of sti and evo at least slightly affect my interest in the z. but i think there's a small number of people who obssess about a difference of .7 secs in the 1/4 mile and a large number of people who obssess over a car's styling.

 

I would be interested in an AWD version of the Z. It would make for good competition between rear and AWD Z owners. With that being said, I would still keep my rear wheel drive Z, less weight and mechanical losses would mean staying ahead of any AWD version. As for everyone who is arguing about a new engine coming in the next few years. Why don't you try to enjoy what you have now and not worry about it. By the time Nissan does come out with a new Z, this generation will have theirs tuned up into incredible 350z's and we would be able to mop up any new rival car, even if it was a new Z. Now quit your bitchin.

 

Heh. Just like my 90TT can still outrun most 350Z's. On the other hand, I'll be buying an '05 350Z and I'm curious what the big thing for '05 is supposed to be.

My bet is on AWD; the G35 sedan has it, the coupe will most likely get it, and it's not a far strech from there to the Z getting it, especially since the G35 couple is often marketed as the 2+2 version of the Z.

Dave 90TT

 

Wow, you all get really wound up about this don't you:

First I never said that I believed that Nissan would absolutely make a Z with a VQ40 in it for 2005. I was simply pointing out some misconceptions in a LOT of the posts.

ml-

whether it matters to you or not,...

I never said that a Z with a VQ40 would still be called a 350Z. (Amazing how people pick up on one person's misconception and post away.*cough*Xeinth*cough*) I am not exactly a newbie around here. I was pointing out that the 3 numbers are not the important part of the name. The "Z" is the point. Nissan has focused a lot on this fact in their marketing. A model of car is not necessarily stuck to one engine. We are just used to the Z having only one displacement per model. But that hasn't stopped Nissan from using different engines in the same model generation (i.e. 300ZX NA vs TT, yes I know they are based on the same blocks.)

well you can define or interpret the meaning..

I don't know about you, but for me the concept of market competition is cars that directly compete for sales. This concept is not a black and white matter. Actual market competition is what really matters. The Z doesn't only compete for sales with cars that are listed in the same "midrange price sports car." If potential buyers are deciding between a Z and some other car, they are in competition for that sale. Your view of the Z's market competition is very narrow. As for the Z sales, I don't think any of us know exactly how well the Z is selling. Unless you have info that the rest of us don't.

whereas nissan purists would be fine with a 4.0 liter *350* z.


Hmm, again, I never said that a VQ40 powered Z would be called a 350Z. I said it could be a higher model than the current cars. I guess I could see where you could infer that from my statement if you were looking for something to use for a smart quip.

the fact that the g35 has it does indeed make it more likely.

AWD-Try reading my statement again. This is again where purists and market separation come in. The Z does not have a heritage of AWD. The Skyline line does. Therefore, the Z's likelihood has less to do with the technology and more to do with the marketing and acceptance. Nissan is more likely to maintain the distinction between the two lines. This would definitely do that.

Also, remember that the G35C doesn't have AWD here yet. That may be gated by the success of the sedan sales.


Arch,

First, there is no need to scream my name

1) Wrong. If the VQ40 is based on the VQ35, some modifications will be in order. For a "truck" engine, torque is the name of the game, and usable torque at that. You don't gain torque by increasing the bore; you increase the stroke. Increasing the stroke means that piston speeds become higher which means the maximum RPM range will decrease. It's ideal to make a majority of your torque in a truck by 1500 RPM (see Titan's V8)...this would make for a very dull sports car. Also, more torque means the block will have to be stiffer and the crankshaft heavier: more weight.

I have already stated that the VQ40 would need a new bore, crank, rods and pistons. Maybe I should have explicitly stated that the crank and rods would give it a different stroke. It has been mentioned before that this motor is a carryover of the VQ35 that is bored and stroked. I believe that it is in the other thread that was posted earlier in this thread.

I understand the need for torque in a truck. The numbers available so far don't put the torque number much, if any, higher than that in the 350Z VQ35. It would be one thing if the VQ40 was putting out 350+ lb/ft, but 270+, I highly doubt any block reinforcing would be needed, nor a stronger crank for that matter. Creating torque down low is most likely handled by the increased stroke and optimizations in the intake tract, plenum and heads. In a Z application, the intake tract, plenum and heads would obviously be optimized differently. To your point of RPM, you are correct that maximun theoretical RPM is lower. The question is whether the actual RPM number is lower than 6600RPM. Without more information, it is all speculation as to whether a well-balanced rotating assembly capable of 6600RPM can be made cost-effectively. It has also posted elsewhere on this forum that the VQ40 in the 05 Frontier has a max rpm in the 6300-6400 range. The VQ35 is not exactly a high revver.

2) #1 above described what a "truck" engine is.

You do realize the VQ35 is in the current Pathfinder. Owners of other sports cars, especially the more annoying of the S2K owners, like to point out that the 350Z is powered by a "truck" motor.

D

 

moved

 

Well by the looks of it, after I have done all that I feel I wanna do with the current VQ35 block. It should probably be around a VQ38 or so when I'm done. But still there's the 5.6 V8 motor. Just because it's a truck motor doesnt make me give a damn, or rethink swapping it into the Z. It would require some extensive cutting & re-organizing I imagine, but the a built V8 mated to high boost should provide for some jaw droping performance, and no one can argue that. Just a matter of how much you wanna spend, and how much work your willing to put into your car. I'd keep the 350Z badge on there, it's not a bad idea in my mind, just because it'd have a v8. It's the 350z, and it started it's life out as one, it'd only move up to bigger and better things. Plus with so much more displacement, it'd be easier to get much high power output, without taking on too much weight. The v8 is still an all aluminum block, with some heavier internals, but the power output when built the way I'd ideally want it, would be nothing short of pantie wetting.

 

The best thing Nissan could do is offer a 2005 TT with 400hp at the crank................they could do it and I think that is what will happen...............the day they do I will be the first to upgrade to it.

 

ARTICFURY, first of all I'm not screaming your name...I just do all upper caps when I'm addressing an individual. Besides, you'll have to buy me dinner first before I scream anyone's name!

I'm going to venture to guess that the VQ40 will be in the 300ft*lbs club. They almost have to in order to compete with all the Jeep Cherokees, Explorers and TrailBlazers with V8s or V8-class torque. Yeah, the VQ35 will probably withstand this kinda of torque for a good time, but when you're in the business of manufacturing cars you don't want to be betting profits on "probablys." In all my encounters with the latest Nissan products, they seem to be a bit conservative with their designs (over-built)...but that's not really a bad thing. Total additional weight over the VQ35 might be something like 10-20 lbs.

Yes, the Pathfinder does have the VQ35, but did you notice the numbers (240HP, 270ft*lbs) as opposed to 287HP, 270ft*lbs? I don't have a shop manual for the Pathfinder, but I suspect more than intake changes were done to get the same torque with less HP. I'm sure another 30ft*lbs would help it tow that 5000lbs a lot better.

Anyway, the Japanese have had a long history of shoving car engines into trucks...and they wondered why the truck market eluded them. It is a pain in the **** to have multiple engine lines, but it's just something that has to be done. The VQ35 does seem to be working quite well in the Murano, but then again it's a 350Z with AWD and more ground clearance too!

 

arch,

I was j/k about the name thing

Anyway, Nissan currently lists the torque for the 05 Frontier at 270+. If they do like the did with the 350Z, that means less than 280lb-ft. They could change it more, but I doubt it.

D