NISMO VTC Pulley...anyone running it
09-16-2004, 04:43 PM
#21
Originally posted by aceman
Been trying to find out as much as i can, lots to read out there
Here are a few articles
http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_s...ine/vvt_31.htm
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...0758.Eg.r.html
http://www.obitet.gazi.edu.tr/Ydokuman/vvt2.htm
http://www.bmwworld.com/technology/vanos.htm
http://ghost.engin.umich.edu/vctCON.pdf
So if theses Nismo gears do infact make more power are we then going to lose out in gas Mileage??
So i would assume these gears are smaller then our current set of gears??
Im with Mchapman when i say
( Thoughts, Corrections? )
Laterz
Aceman
Been trying to find out as much as i can, lots to read out there
Here are a few articles
http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_s...ine/vvt_31.htm
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...0758.Eg.r.html
http://www.obitet.gazi.edu.tr/Ydokuman/vvt2.htm
http://www.bmwworld.com/technology/vanos.htm
http://ghost.engin.umich.edu/vctCON.pdf
So if theses Nismo gears do infact make more power are we then going to lose out in gas Mileage??
So i would assume these gears are smaller then our current set of gears??
Im with Mchapman when i say
( Thoughts, Corrections? )
Laterz
Aceman
BMW Vanos controls both intake and exhaust cam timing.
Toyota VVTiL control both lift and timing.
Honda Vtec has 2 different complete set of camshafts.
Nissan's continuously changes/controls the timing of only the intake cam depending on different variables. View preivous post for better explanation.
09-17-2004, 06:39 AM
#22
Originally posted by mchapman
Its worth noting that these other manufacturers have implemented their systems differently from our system.
BMW Vanos controls both intake and exhaust cam timing.
Toyota VVTiL control both lift and timing.
Honda Vtec has 2 different complete set of camshafts.
Nissan's continuously changes/controls the timing of only the intake cam depending on different variables. View preivous post for better explanation.
Its worth noting that these other manufacturers have implemented their systems differently from our system.
BMW Vanos controls both intake and exhaust cam timing.
Toyota VVTiL control both lift and timing.
Honda Vtec has 2 different complete set of camshafts.
Nissan's continuously changes/controls the timing of only the intake cam depending on different variables. View preivous post for better explanation.
So with our cars these cam gears will just affect the intake portion and not the exhaust portion. The extra 15 degrees will keep the intake open a little longer and increase the amount of air that comes into the chamber correct? More air means more power.
I guess the bottom line for me is that i cant wait to hear some reviews and see how our cars react to these gears.
Keep the info coming
Laterz
Aceman
09-17-2004, 07:21 AM
#23
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WHAYT? we have sissy Intake only Vlavle timing. Man!! i Never new htat, this guys never explain. I can't belive it. THats what the Civic Si has and it is really bad, thats why we even have a simlar style powerband with the civics if you look hard at dyno charts , the civic si's do not really have that much top end torque either.And they only rev til 7 grand. wow. I now know. heck you can have a naturally aspirated k20 have more hp than the vq stock. The only advantage is displacement not technology or hp per liter. Thats why people keep saying that they are sceptical about high compression. The vtc pulleys probably work even better with a full open throttle reprogram (technosquare style) and a plenum. forget exasut mods, They have to be really tuned for the car or else It'll bog like crazy since ther is not exaust cam timing control. Stock exaust rules, don't change it youll lose too much torque. Unless you have 380 whp or somehting, don't change you exaust. For me atleast, its too much of a risk, i hate bogging at low rpm's.ITs even bad for the car.
09-17-2004, 07:22 AM
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WHAYT? we have sissy Intake only Vlavle timing. Man!! i Never new htat, this guys never explain. I can't belive it. THats what the Civic Si has and it is really bad, thats why we even have a simlar style powerband with the civics if you look hard at dyno charts , the civic si's do not really have that much top end torque either.And they only rev til 7 grand. wow. I now know. heck you can have a naturally aspirated k20 have more hp than the vq stock. The only advantage is displacement not technology or hp per liter. Thats why people keep saying that they are sceptical about high compression. The vtc pulleys probably work even better with a full open throttle reprogram (technosquare style) and a plenum. forget exasut mods, They have to be really tuned for the car or else It'll bog like crazy since ther is not exaust cam timing control. Stock exaust rules, don't change it youll lose too much torque. Unless you have 380 whp or somehting, don't change you exaust. For me atleast, its too much of a risk, i hate bogging at low rpm's.ITs even bad for the car.
Oh it just dawned on me, If the VTC pulleys make more air, then there is more exaust. In that case , since the vtc pulleys put a lot of tourque down low, they will probably help[ the car bog less at low rpm's.
Oh it just dawned on me, If the VTC pulleys make more air, then there is more exaust. In that case , since the vtc pulleys put a lot of tourque down low, they will probably help[ the car bog less at low rpm's.
09-17-2004, 07:46 AM
#25
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honestly, vtec is ********....its just a method of combining good gas mileage with high performance. the price you pay is having that kick when vtec engages. below vtec the car is a torqueless wonder. i have owned and upgraded hondas in the past. never again. have even owned an NSX and even they were nothing great. if you want all out performance you have to sacrifice the gas mileage in most cases, especially going the N/A route. example look at the z06 and m3. both get horrible city gas mileage, like 12-15 mpg....but they are top performers in their respective class.
from the pulley you will probably see a good 5-7 whp gain throughout the entire powerband which is really good for what you are doing, just changing a pulley.
think of it as a continuously variable cam gear that you never have to tune except for fuel. you are familar with hondas so you know tuning cam gears is important. 5-15whp can be had on a honda, so you get the idea. whp is not related to degrees timing either so dont think that because its 15 degrees advanced the car is going to be a monster all of a sudden.
from the pulley you will probably see a good 5-7 whp gain throughout the entire powerband which is really good for what you are doing, just changing a pulley.
think of it as a continuously variable cam gear that you never have to tune except for fuel. you are familar with hondas so you know tuning cam gears is important. 5-15whp can be had on a honda, so you get the idea. whp is not related to degrees timing either so dont think that because its 15 degrees advanced the car is going to be a monster all of a sudden.
09-18-2004, 03:00 PM
#26
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how the hell can you say Vtec is ********
because it gives good power and improves mileage?
ever seen an S2000?
I bet you havent even seen an NSX, nothing special?
where do you get your info at, man?
BTW the Z06 gets great mileage for a huge V8
and the M3...well, it gets crappy mileage...but...uh...yeah
because it gives good power and improves mileage?
ever seen an S2000?
I bet you havent even seen an NSX, nothing special?
where do you get your info at, man?
BTW the Z06 gets great mileage for a huge V8
and the M3...well, it gets crappy mileage...but...uh...yeah
09-19-2004, 08:34 AM
#28
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I am almost tempted to order this just because to see what happens. But I am waiting to upgrade cams, retainers, and springs at the same time. While you got the car open u might as well handle as much internal stuff as possible.
09-19-2004, 04:35 PM
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can you read? did you see i owned an nsx. do you know my fiance owns an s2000. i would not trade my g35 for the torqueless s2000 anyday. i have played with hondas for over 4 years and they are nothing special...sorry to crush your ego. thats where i got my info. my type r was 230 whp N/A built by endyn. my nsx was a 2002 and it ran a respectable 12.7 at the strip. nothing great. my 240 which is now my play car runs 10.5xxx all day long at the track.... i love my g way more than the POS s2000. does the s2000 handle better? yes. which is more fun to drive? g35...read before you reply and dont act as if we should all bow down to honda.
Originally posted by axxizzer
how the hell can you say Vtec is ********
because it gives good power and improves mileage?
ever seen an S2000?
I bet you havent even seen an NSX, nothing special?
where do you get your info at, man?
BTW the Z06 gets great mileage for a huge V8
and the M3...well, it gets crappy mileage...but...uh...yeah
how the hell can you say Vtec is ********
because it gives good power and improves mileage?
ever seen an S2000?
I bet you havent even seen an NSX, nothing special?
where do you get your info at, man?
BTW the Z06 gets great mileage for a huge V8
and the M3...well, it gets crappy mileage...but...uh...yeah
09-20-2004, 07:25 PM
#30
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IIRC and from looking at the pics, the exhaust cam is slaved off the intake cam pulley, therefore wouldn't that also advance the exhaust cam making the overall duration the same?
IMO, these would help low/mid, but hurt top-end, *IF* the previous is true.
IMO, these would help low/mid, but hurt top-end, *IF* the previous is true.
09-20-2004, 07:50 PM
#31
Originally posted by IceY2K1Max
IIRC and from looking at the pics, the exhaust cam is slaved off the intake cam pulley, therefore wouldn't that also advance the exhaust cam making the overall duration the same?
IMO, these would help low/mid, but hurt top-end, *IF* the previous is true.
IIRC and from looking at the pics, the exhaust cam is slaved off the intake cam pulley, therefore wouldn't that also advance the exhaust cam making the overall duration the same?
IMO, these would help low/mid, but hurt top-end, *IF* the previous is true.
09-20-2004, 07:54 PM
#32
Originally posted by Z1 Performance
There really is nothing more I can add until I have them installed into my car
There really is nothing more I can add until I have them installed into my car
It seems a strange way to do business, supply products with almost no information on what they do or how to use them correctly.
09-20-2004, 08:22 PM
#33
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murray:
If you take a look at the S1 complete engine package, VTC is actually one of the component... as well as the complete remapped replacement Nismo ECM.... and I guess the remap of the ECU will do the job?!
cheers,
richie
If you take a look at the S1 complete engine package, VTC is actually one of the component... as well as the complete remapped replacement Nismo ECM.... and I guess the remap of the ECU will do the job?!
cheers,
richie
09-20-2004, 09:27 PM
#34
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I am pretty interested in these......will be buying NISMO cams soon and some other work done, also. Maybe Z1 Performance will give some of us discounts to test these out among other products???? Definately keep us updated.
-Steve
Definately keep us updated.-Steve
09-21-2004, 12:17 AM
#35
Originally posted by Z350Lover
murray:
If you take a look at the S1 complete engine package, VTC is actually one of the component... as well as the complete remapped replacement Nismo ECM.... and I guess the remap of the ECU will do the job?!
cheers,
richie
murray:
If you take a look at the S1 complete engine package, VTC is actually one of the component... as well as the complete remapped replacement Nismo ECM.... and I guess the remap of the ECU will do the job?!
cheers,
richie
Its info on those adjustments that we need.
09-21-2004, 09:23 PM
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Originally posted by mchapman
If you look at the picture again you'll notice that the two intake cams one on either side of the engine are linked by the chain. The engine is a V shape and has an intake and exhaust cam for each row of pistons.
If you look at the picture again you'll notice that the two intake cams one on either side of the engine are linked by the chain. The engine is a V shape and has an intake and exhaust cam for each row of pistons.
Photo Credit: bruschijr
Last edited by IceY2K1Max; 09-21-2004 at 09:33 PM.
09-21-2004, 09:47 PM
#37
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However, I did find the answer to my question in some old posts by SR20DEN aka "The VQ Wizard" on the www.maxima.org board. Hopefully, I didn't butcher his conversation with another member too bad:
Originally posted by SR20DEN
I finally got to remove and disassemble a VTC on my VQ35 the other day and I have confirmed that my previous assessment was wrong. The VTC on the Maxima VQ35 does only vary the timing of the intake cam. Although the exhaust cams are slaved from the intake cam gear the exhaust cam timing is NOT affected by the VTC.
Upon learning this I decided to do some more investigation into the 350Z VTC. If it's VTC was different I was going to use two of them instead of the ones my motor came with. But I learned that the Maxima,Altima and 350Z VTCs all have the exact same part number. This concludes that the 350Z does NOT control the timing of the exhaust cam.
I finally got to remove and disassemble a VTC on my VQ35 the other day and I have confirmed that my previous assessment was wrong. The VTC on the Maxima VQ35 does only vary the timing of the intake cam. Although the exhaust cams are slaved from the intake cam gear the exhaust cam timing is NOT affected by the VTC.
Upon learning this I decided to do some more investigation into the 350Z VTC. If it's VTC was different I was going to use two of them instead of the ones my motor came with. But I learned that the Maxima,Altima and 350Z VTCs all have the exact same part number. This concludes that the 350Z does NOT control the timing of the exhaust cam.
Originally posted by SR20DEN
If you look at the VTC in that picture you will notice a little green button that is located near the cover disc bolt on the right. That part contains the spring that holds in the lock pin. If you change that spring rate you can effectivly change the RPMs in which the VTC advances.
If you look at the VTC in that picture you will notice a little green button that is located near the cover disc bolt on the right. That part contains the spring that holds in the lock pin. If you change that spring rate you can effectivly change the RPMs in which the VTC advances.
Originally posted by SR20DEN
The slave drive sprocket is bolted to the outer part of the VTC unit. A machinist with the right tools and skills could easily set this up so that it bolts to the center VTC or intake cam itself. Thereby changing the exhaust cam timing along with the intake cam timing.
The slave drive sprocket is bolted to the outer part of the VTC unit. A machinist with the right tools and skills could easily set this up so that it bolts to the center VTC or intake cam itself. Thereby changing the exhaust cam timing along with the intake cam timing.
Originally posted by SR20DEN
You do not add another VTC. The one CVTC can be setup to control both cams instead of just one. There are no more hydraulics. There are no more solenoids. You do not have to add anything. All you have to do is disconnect the slave drive sprocket from the outer part of the CVTC and fasten it to the inner drive part of the CVTC.
The crank sprocket only drives the Intake cam sprockets. The intake cam sprokets have slave sprokets right behind them to drive the exhaust cam. There are three timing chains and three tensioners in the VQ.
You do not add another VTC. The one CVTC can be setup to control both cams instead of just one. There are no more hydraulics. There are no more solenoids. You do not have to add anything. All you have to do is disconnect the slave drive sprocket from the outer part of the CVTC and fasten it to the inner drive part of the CVTC.
The crank sprocket only drives the Intake cam sprockets. The intake cam sprokets have slave sprokets right behind them to drive the exhaust cam. There are three timing chains and three tensioners in the VQ.
Originally posted by SR20DEN
Yes the range would be identical but the lobe separation and overlap would never change. Advancing the timing on the exhaust cam has pretty much the same effect on an engine as advancing the intake cam. Now the question remains why did Nissan not already do this? And is the hydraulic force of one CVTC sufficient to adjust two cams instead of just one. These VTC units are quite large and heavy, I think it will work.
Yes the range would be identical but the lobe separation and overlap would never change. Advancing the timing on the exhaust cam has pretty much the same effect on an engine as advancing the intake cam. Now the question remains why did Nissan not already do this? And is the hydraulic force of one CVTC sufficient to adjust two cams instead of just one. These VTC units are quite large and heavy, I think it will work.
09-22-2004, 09:34 AM
#38
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VTC
Originally posted by IceY2K1Max
However, I did find the answer to my question in some old posts by SR20DEN aka "The VQ Wizard" on the www.maxima.org board. Hopefully, I didn't butcher his conversation with another member too bad:
However, I did find the answer to my question in some old posts by SR20DEN aka "The VQ Wizard" on the www.maxima.org board. Hopefully, I didn't butcher his conversation with another member too bad:
09-22-2004, 09:49 AM
#39
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It only changes the intake cam, however I'm not sure exactly how.
According to the Z1 auto website they "increase overall cam advance to 55 degrees (15 degrees longer than stock)". However, I don't see where that "55 degrees" or "15 degrees longer than stock" come into play. From what I can find the VQ35 intake valve opening(IVO) range is 5ATDC-30BTDC and intake valve closing(IVC) range is 65ABDC-30ABDC.
So, does the NISMO VTC pulley cause the IVO to be sooner allowing "15 degrees longer" time to be open? If so, how when 30+15 is 45 degrees not "55 degrees"?
According to the Z1 auto website they "increase overall cam advance to 55 degrees (15 degrees longer than stock)". However, I don't see where that "55 degrees" or "15 degrees longer than stock" come into play. From what I can find the VQ35 intake valve opening(IVO) range is 5ATDC-30BTDC and intake valve closing(IVC) range is 65ABDC-30ABDC.
So, does the NISMO VTC pulley cause the IVO to be sooner allowing "15 degrees longer" time to be open? If so, how when 30+15 is 45 degrees not "55 degrees"?
Last edited by IceY2K1Max; 09-22-2004 at 09:55 AM.