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Sleeved block, Low compression, 8-10psi, "smog"

Old 03-19-2018, 06:40 PM
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Riff
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Default Sleeved block, Low compression, 8-10psi, "smog"

I searched all five pages, been looking all over the net for two days now,, I found nothing for such a mediocre build and Starting to get dirty looks cuz I've been baby sitting the bench for like 30 minutes now..... so I had to go on ahead and just post up my question.

First off before I get flamed up over the amount of trouble I may or may not be asking for vs "buying a faster car"... I put a lot of work into this car aesthetically and don't want another car. I bought it with the intent of fixing it up and keeping it as my weekend car.

However, with my aggressive setup, I am constantly being chased around my little clown *** fools and hellcats, little F%$kboys in they older sister's 03 325i with the tips sawed off, and these random [email protected]$theads in other DEs with test pipes and muffler deletes running red lights just to show me how loud it is. And the spirit behind my Racers heart can stand it no longer. I need POWER.

NOW, not ungodly, axle shattering, diff destroying power. My original plan was to get my hands on an LS3 e rod and drop it in, never to be disturbed again. But I'm 2k in and upon doing more research, I found out that I'm going to be having just as much of a headache with not passing smog and I'm not trying to juggle engines in this car. so if I have to do a swap, I'm only going to want to do it once.

So my question is:
is there any kind of known set up amongst the VQ gods for
-low compression
-sleeved block
-8 to 10 pounds
On stock heads
Where I can achieve a humble 380 horsepower (350/360 to the wheels) , and still biannually I can pop the turbo off, tune it down and still pass smog.

Darton makes 95mm sleeves which is basically stock for the DE, an really all I want is bullet proof stock aspects I can toss some boost on and ****** them off in a pinch without pulli g the whole front of the car off every 2 years to be legit. I'm looking into titanium valve springs and retainers as well.

Like I said I just want bulletproof stock specs that I can toss 10 lb of boost on. and I've come to the forms because I've got two grand and it's either going to go to a long block which I'm going to start taking apart, or back in the bank for another month while I save up for a small turbo kit to push the limits on my aging motor( approaching 120 k)

Am I asking for tips on hitting the lotto, or is that a legitimate set up for us mediocre fellows?
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Old 03-22-2018, 12:52 PM
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Keep the engin stock and run a mid mount turbo system. It should be easier to take off than a front mount or twin turbo system as it dosen change the headers.

Your sleeved block, low compression, valve train upgrades build doesn't match your HP requirements or budget. A turbo kit also doesn't match your budget.
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Old 03-22-2018, 05:04 PM
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2k isn't actually my budget, that's just where I'm at with what I was saving for the ls3. I'm currently trying to get a hold of a cheap long block with low mileage since the ls3 thing isn't gonna work. I spend on an engine, the easier it will be for me to save up over the next few months to get the essential things I need to accomplish what I'm trying to do. I can easily go and buy a turbo and slap it on my stock engine like everybody else does. But essentially what I'm trying to accomplish is 380 horses, 360 of it to the wheels. On a block built to stock measurements, but Bulletproof tough enough to where I can toss on and remove a turbo kit and able to pass smog. and all the research I'm doing all I'm finding is people trying to go to the moon with crazy builds or Knuckleheads trying to be Johnny Knoxville with some stock internals.

I've been hawking these Darton block sleeves but I'm not sure if 96mm is going to be night and day from 95mm(stock, right?) At the smog shop. Plus, with titanium valve springs and retainers alone (not ported and polished) on the head, will that hold 8-10psi "reliably". I simply haven't seen any builds like that, or haven't found any outside of stock internals.

I imagine it's going to be about 8k build the motor I'm trying to build (included the engine) of that 8k i am 2k in

Last edited by Riff; 03-22-2018 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 03-22-2018, 06:47 PM
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Last I looked there were no smog legal, CARB approved turbo kits. I'm pretty sure this is still the case.

A SC would get you there easily, is smog legal, CARB approved. Good luck.
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Old 03-22-2018, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by LexD View Post
Last I looked there were no smog legal, CARB approved turbo kits. I'm pretty sure this is still the case.

A SC would get you there easily, is smog legal, CARB approved. Good luck.
I'm not trying to "smog a turbo"

I'm trying to " build a vq35de engine to be able to take up to 10 lb of boost, whereas when smog time comes around, I can remove the turbo kit, detune it, slap my emissions components back on, pass smog, then reinstall my turbo kit"

And clearly I must be breaking new ground here(in cali)

Has this legitimately never been considered before? Man there is hope for the "legit power" Cali heads yet.

Maaan, it seems like a very practical way to move the DE back up to that muscle car nuisance the hr's have become(as engine builds goes anyway)

And I had an SC400 before I bought this Z. I was about to do a 5 speed swap when the started when out, and I found out you have to damn near take the heads off to get to it.

Last edited by Riff; 03-22-2018 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:53 AM
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Why are you considering sleeves??? I've read so many issues with them on this platform that it seems the consensus has been for 10 years to stay the hell away from them.

Are you totally against a super charger??
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:55 AM
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Let's see a pict or two of your Z.

Inquiring minds.......
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Old 03-23-2018, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by eZg View Post
Why are you considering sleeves??? I've read so many issues with them on this platform that it seems the consensus has been for 10 years to stay the hell away from them.

Are you totally against a super charger??
I've seen those posts, and most of those are form major builds. I'm only assuming that if you thin out sleeves too much they are bound to fail just like stock cylinders would under extreme performance. And it seems almost nonexistent that someone would go through a whole break down and rebuild and use sleeves for stock specs. But its like if you can boost on stock internals to get upwards to 400whp, why not "build" bullet proof stock specs?

Well the obvious answer would be "because heads want mega power" of course. I don't want "mega" power, I just want full access to all the power. And i dont "think" im in danger of the major failures with 8-10psi, as turbo builds go that's just not that much.

Yes, my boy is pestering me to "just supercharge it"... he has a 510 with a sr20te and A T34 boosting 15 pounds... and a but of other random turbos sitting all over the place so it's kind of hard to take him seriously.

I just think the supercharger have a limit, well so do turbos but turbos have a higher limit is all
have a higher limit
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Old 03-23-2018, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by eZg View Post
Let's see a pict or two of your Z.

Inquiring minds.......
I've tried to post pics on here

I can only do it on a desk or laptop, and this site doesn't like host servers... so my hands are kind of tied
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:33 AM
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Now I don't know ****...but most of what I have read said that sleeves failed because of installation issues (not sure how one would know that) Even the ones installed by Darton themselves. Just seems like you are adding another failure point. A closed deck block would be a better way to go, I would think.

Not to mention you said you wanted, "humble 380 horsepower (350/360 to the wheels) "

Then a couple posts later, " higher limit."

I dunno....
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by eZg View Post
Now I don't know ****...but most of what I have read said that sleeves failed because of installation issues (not sure how one would know that) Even the ones installed by Darton themselves. Just seems like you are adding another failure point. A closed deck block would be a better way to go, I would think.

Not to mention you said you wanted, "humble 380 horsepower (350/360 to the wheels) "

Then a couple posts later, " higher limit."

I dunno....
I'll specify:

I want an engine capable of a reliable 380hp(humble as in to the crank), and 350-360 of that 380 to the wheels.

Closed deck:
I've done research on that and with out major head modification, I'll have heat issues. To get adequate coolant access, channels would have to be drilled... weakening the the plate. I mean it will be stronger then stock alone, but not as strong and as sleeves in my case.

Supercharger vs turbo:
I personally feel that between the two, the supercharger's limitations on power are limited to the specific build and tune. Where with turbo is kind of like a blank canvas. the bigger the canvas the bigger the portrait leaving you free to roam within those boundaries of my choosing .

If I build a bullet proof block with fundementaly upgrades to the head. I'm very optimistic that I can achieve "350-360Whp" with a supercharger or turbo. But if it turns out I can squeeze another "reliable" 40-50 horses out with the type of build I do, i would not say "no". With that being said, i see no logical point in anything over 400hp "on the street, I just don't. Then I have to start fiddle faddlin with fuel and difs and grants and I'm trying to stay within my means on that note(although that gooood sequential gearbo- -.. let me not get started).

Bottom line the goal is to have 350-60whp, with bullet proof stock specs (meaning without having to hone, port, or polish beyond those specs).

This is of course a gross assumption that with a balanced crank, titanium valve spring and retainers, studs, forged pistons, rings, rods, injectors, and sleeves, that I will be able to boost up to 10psi and achieve that number. But should I have to go "higher", those, now bulletproof, stock specs will be able to handle it.

In addition, should I have to upgrade my FI, I won't have to drop another 3500 on "a new supercharger" for whatever the difference in power is. I can just buy a new, or rebuilt turbo and have it tuned to perfection. Furthermore, when it's time to go see the The Man, I can spend a few hours and pop the kit off, toss my stock stuff back on, smog it, come back home, pop it back on, and be on my way.

NOW that part about Darton installation flaws scares me a little. But again my margin for error would be pretty pretty huge given my specifications though(another gross assumption).

Last edited by Riff; 03-24-2018 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 04-01-2018, 06:30 AM
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Riff, read my sign.......

For 380HP just leave the motor alone (STOCK).... At that power level it's Bullet Proof if Tuned correct.

I'm making 570+ at the rear wheels on a dead stock motor, that's well over 600Hp at the crank, and well over 50,000 miles and lots of time at the drag strip.

Just no need to built the motor at the power level you want.

Tim
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Old 04-01-2018, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by OldManZ350 View Post
Riff, read my sign.......

For 380HP just leave the motor alone (STOCK).... At that power level it's Bullet Proof if Tuned correct.

I'm making 570+ at the rear wheels on a dead stock motor, that's well over 600Hp at the crank, and well over 50,000 miles and lots of time at the drag strip.

Just no need to built the motor at the power level you want.

Tim
wow... That sounds cool wow... That sounds cool and scary at the same time.

How long have you been running that setup? Have you had any valves or seal issues? How many head gaskets have you gone through? And any issues with your bearings?

And sure, slapping a turbo and a nice tune on stock internals will get fast results. But in my opinion that's just a bomb waiting to go off. Plus I wouldn't just slap it on my stock engine with 120k, a rebuild would be an order anyway. So I figure logically if I have to replace the engine anyway, why not make it even stronger??.

But don't get me wrong I would love to save money so if that's a legitimate path to take which I figure is why a lot of people do it, maybe that would be more practical.

And I'm not sure about bulletproof stock "rods"... From what I've been researching those are the Achilles heel of the VQ, right?
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Old 04-01-2018, 01:24 PM
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@oldmanz350

I went and check out you build

You e got to be the first owner. Or that's a factory freak. At any rate, that is very inspiring... and kind of puts me into Frugal mode. Perhaps I am over thinking it, and maybe I'm not the first person to think of this route. Just with the Rod's needing to the upgraded I figured why not go that slightly extra mile and make something Bulletproof bomb-proof. But lo and behold you're here putting almost 700 horsepower on stock internals... which is basically black and white proof that my idea would be unnecessary.

Kind of hard to argue with tried and true results.
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Old 04-01-2018, 09:22 PM
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"0" Motor Issues...

Ya, with 120,000 miles you need a rebuild, and ya of corse replace at the very lease the Rods, Pistons and Oil pump to Hi perforance Versions.


Originally Posted by Riff View Post
wow... That sounds cool wow... That sounds cool and scary at the same time.

How long have you been running that setup? Have you had any valves or seal issues? How many head gaskets have you gone through? And any issues with your bearings?

And sure, slapping a turbo and a nice tune on stock internals will get fast results. But in my opinion that's just a bomb waiting to go off. Plus I wouldn't just slap it on my stock engine with 120k, a rebuild would be an order anyway. So I figure logically if I have to replace the engine anyway, why not make it even stronger??.

But don't get me wrong I would love to save money so if that's a legitimate path to take which I figure is why a lot of people do it, maybe that would be more practical.

And I'm not sure about bulletproof stock "rods"... From what I've been researching those are the Achilles heel of the VQ, right?
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Old 04-01-2018, 09:59 PM
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+1 to the mid-mount turbo for the good balance of swap-out ability and performance.

If you want to start at 350whp you'll 10psi is too much ... 6psi will get you there. And if you push 6psi your laundry list is killing the over-kill.

The OEM block will take another 100hp before you really need to dig into the engine.

Look into uprev or haltech ... a safe tune is the best thing you can do to safe-guard your block.

I'd like to see pictures...
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bealljk View Post
+1 to the mid-mount turbo for the good balance of swap-out ability and performance.

If you want to start at 350whp you'll 10psi is too much ... 6psi will get you there. And if you push 6psi your laundry list is killing the over-kill.

The OEM block will take another 100hp before you really need to dig into the engine.

Look into uprev or haltech ... a safe tune is the best thing you can do to safe-guard your block.

I'd like to see pictures...
So ultimately, there is actually a function to boosting a stock VQ other than affordability?

I literally wrote it off as half assing it. Man I could have had this done 2 years ago smh.

As far as self tuning, my buddy has a clapped out WRX with yada yada done to it... but what stood out the most to me was his COBB tuning set up. He pushes a button, and zip! Detuned. That is the most gangster gadget out of all his work on the whole car. I want that real bad. Ive head that the uprev is a DE killer without a lighter flywheel.... and then I'm on wet ground watch. (Just what I've heard) it's a sketchy balance.

I guess it's like... no matter which way you go, you going to blow up, on the other hand stock specs Last into the 200Ks. I mean it's fun to tinker and go Bigosaurus, but we got guys in here that can attest to the natural durability of those stock specs. So is it REALLY "overkill" to us those naturally durable specs as a foundation for "streetable" use?

I'm not trying to split hairs I'm just really racking my brain on this. I believe in the z33. Soo much hate on a daily basis, and I'm not talking about that corny "you don't like Drake so your a hater" hate, I'm talking about "I'm gonna chase this you all the way out of the parking lot, and up the street for 3 miles, raving my engine and barking my engine and chirping my tires, because he drives a Z and he put expensive rims on it, and it's aggressive, and I DON'T LIKE IT" hate.

I just want to be able to hit the gas and let them know " I thought this throught". and don't get me wrong. I do want the power too, I truly do want the power. But "managable" power. That's the main reason I'm looking into going this route

Thanks for the constructive insight by the way you guys, I've always appreciated sharing ideas. It REALLY does help me with big decision making. I've made a couple of purchases and power moves based off of a few conversations I've had on this site. It does work.

I'm going to do a little bit more research on stock internals in this mid Mount turbo setup. if all goes well with this new job, I'm probably going to start my eingine build this summer. hopefully by then I'll figure out how to post pictures properly.
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:56 PM
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Riff - you have one batsh!t crazy dialect - has anyone ever told you this? I cant tell if you're high or if your simply 22 years old...

Originally Posted by Riff View Post
my buddy has a clapped out WRX
Originally Posted by Riff View Post
the most gangster gadget
Originally Posted by Riff View Post
and then I'm on wet ground watch. (Just what I've heard) it's a sketchy balance.
Originally Posted by Riff View Post
it's fun to tinker and go Bigosaurus
Originally Posted by Riff View Post
natural durability
Originally Posted by Riff View Post
and I'm not talking about that corny "you don't like Drake so your a hater" hate, I'm talking about "I'm gonna chase this you all the way out of the parking lot, and up the street for 3 miles, raving my engine and barking my engine and chirping my tires, because he drives a Z and he put expensive rims on it, and it's aggressive, and I DON'T LIKE IT" hate.
Originally Posted by Riff View Post
I'm talking about "I'm gonna chase this you all the way out of the parking lot, and up the street for 3 miles, raving my engine and barking my engine and chirping my tires, because he drives a Z and he put expensive rims on it, and it's aggressive, and I DON'T LIKE IT" hate.
Originally Posted by Riff View Post
and let them know " I thought this throught".
Originally Posted by Riff View Post
if all goes well with this new job, I'm probably going to start my eingine build this summer
officially a dreamers thread

Last edited by bealljk; 04-02-2018 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:08 PM
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Riff, youíre not making an sense. I have a mid mount kit, takes a few hours to return to stock if I wanted. The power you want is easily obtainable on a stock motor and with that budget, Iím only 19 and was able to pull it off.
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Old 04-02-2018, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bealljk View Post
Riff - you have one batsh!t crazy dialect - has anyone ever told you this? I cant tell if you're high or if your simply 22 years old...


















officially a dreamers thread


Little hurt because I am 22 years old, but I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking this when reading through this thread.
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