GTFactory Diablo Door Installation Procedure
#26
WoW,i'm pretty much speechless,what other installer takes so much pride in his work these days is almost unheard of.Vertex you can work on my car anyday..just by your write up and seeing your work,i would recc you to any of my friends looking to get work done..Awesome Job man...just awesome..
#28
ya i seen your car on sat at the evo meet,you have a very nice car,like the set-up you have..and thankx again for the info on the zanio spray way you told me about..went ahead and ordered some..
#31
Good News / Bad News
When I was 3, I drove my dad's Buick Riviera. As soon as my mom got out, I jumped in the front, and popped the auto lever into drive. It was calling my name everytime I got in the car. I was born to drive cars.
Good news!
The door gaps around the entire perimeter of the modified door are within +/- 0.031 inches. A perfect fit. As the pictures show, any positive/negative lean of the door's x or y axis has been eliminated. It is impossible to detect that this door has been modified. That's the good news, that my theory and careful installation paid off.
The bad news is.....I have to uninstall the entire procedure. I have to cut the welds I made to the door, as well as the tacks I put on the bracket to frame. I have to grind the bracket back down where the welds were made, as well as to the door where the bracket was attached. The bolts I slaved to add in must be eliminated.
There is one critical variable that must be exact. And that is the angle the bracket is attached to the door at. By bolting the door to the bracket, the angle is predetermined....which is really no angle at all since the bolts pull the bracket flush to the door. In order to give this kit enough clearance to open outward enough, it is paramount the angle is positive toward the interior of the car......which means, the full surface area of the bracket will definitely not be in contact with the door.....which means, a different welding technique must be devised in order to provide superior strength, as well as precision not to burn through the door skin.
I spent a couple hours practicing welding super-thick guage metal to old fenders, and have successfully devised a new technique.
This whole ordeal was frustrating. The past few days I have been relatively depressed, with the feeling of...not knowing. Believe it or not, I came to the realization of all these additional modifications, as well as my theory on the custom welding, in my sleep last night. All my dreams were about this blue car. They started out being nightmares, but towards the morning, I actually went through the entire reinstallation process in a sequence of...good dreams!
Today I feel much better and am confident the 2nd time will be the charm
Good news!
The door gaps around the entire perimeter of the modified door are within +/- 0.031 inches. A perfect fit. As the pictures show, any positive/negative lean of the door's x or y axis has been eliminated. It is impossible to detect that this door has been modified. That's the good news, that my theory and careful installation paid off.
The bad news is.....I have to uninstall the entire procedure. I have to cut the welds I made to the door, as well as the tacks I put on the bracket to frame. I have to grind the bracket back down where the welds were made, as well as to the door where the bracket was attached. The bolts I slaved to add in must be eliminated.
There is one critical variable that must be exact. And that is the angle the bracket is attached to the door at. By bolting the door to the bracket, the angle is predetermined....which is really no angle at all since the bolts pull the bracket flush to the door. In order to give this kit enough clearance to open outward enough, it is paramount the angle is positive toward the interior of the car......which means, the full surface area of the bracket will definitely not be in contact with the door.....which means, a different welding technique must be devised in order to provide superior strength, as well as precision not to burn through the door skin.
I spent a couple hours practicing welding super-thick guage metal to old fenders, and have successfully devised a new technique.
This whole ordeal was frustrating. The past few days I have been relatively depressed, with the feeling of...not knowing. Believe it or not, I came to the realization of all these additional modifications, as well as my theory on the custom welding, in my sleep last night. All my dreams were about this blue car. They started out being nightmares, but towards the morning, I actually went through the entire reinstallation process in a sequence of...good dreams!
Today I feel much better and am confident the 2nd time will be the charm
#34
Originally Posted by D@ActiveTuning
How much is this all costing if you don't mind me asking?
My worry was the door lining up perfect so I can rest easy now. As for the re welding no worries there. I beleave most installers would have called me and said come get this car NOW I give up. Thank god steve want to better himself and finnish what he started. Steve have you started counting a blue z to fall asleep yet? sheep not working anymore I bet.
Last edited by PumpedVA; 09-01-2005 at 09:11 AM.
#35
I quoted Toby $1500 as an estimate for labor, + paint. That would be equivalent to 16.3 hours of my time. Being that I've already surpassed that time by more than double, and I have several hours to go...is of no consequence to me right now. I will stay true to my word and stay close to that amount, regardless of time spent.
I will not know exactly how much I will charge in the future until I am finished. After the install is perfected on one side, I will see how much time is necessary to complete the opposite side, and determine from there. There is no way for me to control the amount of time I've already invested. In a way, it was time I invested in myself. I wouldn't have been able to stop trying to learn no matter what the price was. Just knowing that it is possible warrants me to spend time on learning how. To me, installing things is a science. There is only 1 right way to install anything, which is perfect. Any degree of imperfection is TOTALLY wrong to me. So long as tools exist to measure things, and tools to modify things, there is always a way.
I will not know exactly how much I will charge in the future until I am finished. After the install is perfected on one side, I will see how much time is necessary to complete the opposite side, and determine from there. There is no way for me to control the amount of time I've already invested. In a way, it was time I invested in myself. I wouldn't have been able to stop trying to learn no matter what the price was. Just knowing that it is possible warrants me to spend time on learning how. To me, installing things is a science. There is only 1 right way to install anything, which is perfect. Any degree of imperfection is TOTALLY wrong to me. So long as tools exist to measure things, and tools to modify things, there is always a way.
#36
Just think of the people that will come to you now for this kit steve knowing there is something that can install it perfect. Guess my car was like a investment into the future haha
#37
I'll have a pictures of the door repositioned by tomorrow night. As always, I appreciate your patience Toby.
I'm not really concerned with if people come to get these doors done. Lambo door conversions are few and far between. I've done probably more than any other shop around here, maybe 20 or 25 in total, but that's over 3 years. Decah, VDC, LSD, off-shore China/Taiwan kits, and now the GTF. Hopefully people will be able to see my process and the fit & finish on anything I install, whether it be door kits or turbos.
I like this GTF kit a lot. It is the only kit that simulates the OEM Lamborghini motion, at least it's close because it opens up so high. Also, the alloy used is among the highest quality I've seen, along with the LSD kit. For those of you who need to have your door open like a lamborghini, GTF is your only option. If you don't need it like a Lamborghini and still want vertical doors, the LSD kit is by far the best. The alloy used in that kit is similar to the GTF, and the precise fitment is excellent, while being reversible if need be.
I'm not really concerned with if people come to get these doors done. Lambo door conversions are few and far between. I've done probably more than any other shop around here, maybe 20 or 25 in total, but that's over 3 years. Decah, VDC, LSD, off-shore China/Taiwan kits, and now the GTF. Hopefully people will be able to see my process and the fit & finish on anything I install, whether it be door kits or turbos.
I like this GTF kit a lot. It is the only kit that simulates the OEM Lamborghini motion, at least it's close because it opens up so high. Also, the alloy used is among the highest quality I've seen, along with the LSD kit. For those of you who need to have your door open like a lamborghini, GTF is your only option. If you don't need it like a Lamborghini and still want vertical doors, the LSD kit is by far the best. The alloy used in that kit is similar to the GTF, and the precise fitment is excellent, while being reversible if need be.
#40
Alrighty. No pictures this time, the process is about the same as the pictures I posted from before.
After successfully installing the doors, there is much else to consider besides the information I already wrote. I put an emphasis on the alignment of the door, in respect to it's x and y axis as well as positioning N,E,S, and West. Just as important is the positioning of the bracket to the door, in reference to it's placement as well as angle of attachment in respect to it's x and y axis. Of no less importance is the placement of the cutout in the subframe, the depth of the cutout, as well as angle the bracket is welded into the cutout. Also to consider is how deep the bracket is inset in the cutout when it's welded.
If you can get that far, then you have to battle a myriad of other issues not previously addressed. No matter what position the bracket is welded into the car, the bracket will not clear the fender when fully vertical in its unmodified state. It must be shaved precisely using measuring techniques that would be too confusing to explain. The bracket must be shaved on certain areas of the base in order to clear inside the fender when the door is going up. Additional modifications have to be made to the inner subframe just below the welded bracket in order to provide clearance for the arm to swing outwards. That proved very difficult since the positioning of the bracket arm for this car is critical it is pressed against the frame when fully closed. This is the only way you could even have a chance at opening far enough to get the doors to clear the A-pillar. Also of critical importance is the angle the arm moves up at when the door is going vertical. It must be at a precise angle where it will clear the fender in the area where the fender is sloping (although it won't clear anywhere without bracket modification/shaving).
Welding the brackets into place puts tremendous amounts of pressure on the installer because welding is such a permanent process. Precise amounts of voltage/wire speed must be applied in different areas of the bracket to ensure strong welds without melting the thin guage steel of the door and subframe. Any calculations forgotten or left out will become supremely evident at the time of testing, at which point the installation must be reversed.....a hearty task when dealing with welded pieces. The time has to be spent to grind the welds nicely before being welded to the car in order to reach certain areas well, all of which must be grinded away if the bracket must be uninstalled, which adds even more pressure. Of all the calculations and adjustments with different angles I spoke of above (which definitely didn't cover them all), every single one must be considered accurately in order to have a working door. Leave just one out, any one, and the door will not work.
Because the bracket is universal, the installation process is different for every single car. Inside Toby's subframe (thus all 350's) was a maze of substructured steel in order to compensate for the thin guage, which was a huge pain to cut through and grind away as well. And I have all sorts of tools, pretty much all of them. Other manufacturers may put sensors or who-knows-what inside the fender areas or subframes that may make the installation impossible without further relocation modification.
The kit itself is made of high quality materials. The construction is nice for sure. But to me, no matter what, it's a universal kit, which carries the same deranked label as any other universal door hinge. The definition of "universal" in the way these companies apply it is very misleading, and should be replaced with "full custom." If I had my own steel machining tools, I could have designed and made a custom kit for this car in the amount of time I've already spent.
The consumer public is not fully comprised of highly skilled custom-work technicians, or people who have access to those people. In my opinion, it is the most labor intensive piece I've ever had to install, because of the precise measurements and the fact that it's completely custom for every car. Even though GTF says it is possible for it to work on any car, I believe that claim to be extremely vague. The average consumer isn't going to assume one may have to modify so much. And even after I've done it to a Z, and learned much information from the process, the actual work isn't going to be any easier, because there are no templates to follow or make. The bracket itself is the template GTF wants you to use, by means of tracing around it.
In my opinion, the only way this kit would be of great value to someone is if it is MANDATORY that his/her vision includes a car where the doors go 90 degrees up. It is in fact a pretty cool thing to see, because it is ultimately rare. No other lambo-style kit goes all the way straight up. If it is that important to you, you will have to pay an important price. It would be stupid of me to not install it again, being it took so much to figure out how. To compare, I usually charge about $1000 to install most decent to high quality kits where no welding is required. A GTF kit would probably be closer to $2500. On top would be paint for the door panels and and inner door (area where welds are grinded and smoothed to appear like no welds were made). In total you'd probably have to spend 4 or more when you incorporate the cost of the kit and panels.
4 is ridiculous when compared against other kits....but value and price is different for everyone. If it was the only Z in your area like that, and nobody else could get or afford it, it is actually an interesting novelty, and well worth the price for many I can imagine.
I have less stress and it takes less time to disassemble and reassemble pistons/rods/head. This install is no fun.
After successfully installing the doors, there is much else to consider besides the information I already wrote. I put an emphasis on the alignment of the door, in respect to it's x and y axis as well as positioning N,E,S, and West. Just as important is the positioning of the bracket to the door, in reference to it's placement as well as angle of attachment in respect to it's x and y axis. Of no less importance is the placement of the cutout in the subframe, the depth of the cutout, as well as angle the bracket is welded into the cutout. Also to consider is how deep the bracket is inset in the cutout when it's welded.
If you can get that far, then you have to battle a myriad of other issues not previously addressed. No matter what position the bracket is welded into the car, the bracket will not clear the fender when fully vertical in its unmodified state. It must be shaved precisely using measuring techniques that would be too confusing to explain. The bracket must be shaved on certain areas of the base in order to clear inside the fender when the door is going up. Additional modifications have to be made to the inner subframe just below the welded bracket in order to provide clearance for the arm to swing outwards. That proved very difficult since the positioning of the bracket arm for this car is critical it is pressed against the frame when fully closed. This is the only way you could even have a chance at opening far enough to get the doors to clear the A-pillar. Also of critical importance is the angle the arm moves up at when the door is going vertical. It must be at a precise angle where it will clear the fender in the area where the fender is sloping (although it won't clear anywhere without bracket modification/shaving).
Welding the brackets into place puts tremendous amounts of pressure on the installer because welding is such a permanent process. Precise amounts of voltage/wire speed must be applied in different areas of the bracket to ensure strong welds without melting the thin guage steel of the door and subframe. Any calculations forgotten or left out will become supremely evident at the time of testing, at which point the installation must be reversed.....a hearty task when dealing with welded pieces. The time has to be spent to grind the welds nicely before being welded to the car in order to reach certain areas well, all of which must be grinded away if the bracket must be uninstalled, which adds even more pressure. Of all the calculations and adjustments with different angles I spoke of above (which definitely didn't cover them all), every single one must be considered accurately in order to have a working door. Leave just one out, any one, and the door will not work.
Because the bracket is universal, the installation process is different for every single car. Inside Toby's subframe (thus all 350's) was a maze of substructured steel in order to compensate for the thin guage, which was a huge pain to cut through and grind away as well. And I have all sorts of tools, pretty much all of them. Other manufacturers may put sensors or who-knows-what inside the fender areas or subframes that may make the installation impossible without further relocation modification.
The kit itself is made of high quality materials. The construction is nice for sure. But to me, no matter what, it's a universal kit, which carries the same deranked label as any other universal door hinge. The definition of "universal" in the way these companies apply it is very misleading, and should be replaced with "full custom." If I had my own steel machining tools, I could have designed and made a custom kit for this car in the amount of time I've already spent.
The consumer public is not fully comprised of highly skilled custom-work technicians, or people who have access to those people. In my opinion, it is the most labor intensive piece I've ever had to install, because of the precise measurements and the fact that it's completely custom for every car. Even though GTF says it is possible for it to work on any car, I believe that claim to be extremely vague. The average consumer isn't going to assume one may have to modify so much. And even after I've done it to a Z, and learned much information from the process, the actual work isn't going to be any easier, because there are no templates to follow or make. The bracket itself is the template GTF wants you to use, by means of tracing around it.
In my opinion, the only way this kit would be of great value to someone is if it is MANDATORY that his/her vision includes a car where the doors go 90 degrees up. It is in fact a pretty cool thing to see, because it is ultimately rare. No other lambo-style kit goes all the way straight up. If it is that important to you, you will have to pay an important price. It would be stupid of me to not install it again, being it took so much to figure out how. To compare, I usually charge about $1000 to install most decent to high quality kits where no welding is required. A GTF kit would probably be closer to $2500. On top would be paint for the door panels and and inner door (area where welds are grinded and smoothed to appear like no welds were made). In total you'd probably have to spend 4 or more when you incorporate the cost of the kit and panels.
4 is ridiculous when compared against other kits....but value and price is different for everyone. If it was the only Z in your area like that, and nobody else could get or afford it, it is actually an interesting novelty, and well worth the price for many I can imagine.
I have less stress and it takes less time to disassemble and reassemble pistons/rods/head. This install is no fun.