jhc

Quite sure you're aware of this but try to find the point on the sway where it's static- no upward or downward pressure and set your length there. No preload will make you happier in hard corners.

calvin.w

Lol I've never seen anyone take so long on a small part. But kudos for doing your research and doing it the right way!

Jim Stephens

I know right? It has become a family joke. I would starve if I were a mechanic. I tell my son, it will only take an hour and we are out there all day. It's all learning curve. Once I understood how it mounted it went quickly this evening . Works great!

calvin.w

Glad to hear. The upgraded sway bar will add a whole new feel to your cornering as well as better times

Jim Stephens

Well, the heat and the fact that they have shut down AutoX racing again means not much is happening with the car. Also, I am at the point where the next round of work would be more suspension upgrades and I might wait until fall for that. I am kinda looking more and more at Vortech V3 superchargers. Trying to keep it on a budget though and looking for used kits. Thought I would ask a few basic questions. What do you look for in a used supercharger? How long do these things last in terms of millage etc? What is a good price range?

Just trying to not buy someone else's piece of junk. I have read through and understand the fuel system needs (pump, injectors etc.) and would plan to possibly install it myself and then take it over to be tuned. Here is an example of a setup that looks pretty good to me that is currently for sale, but he is not willing to ship. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...00544476695918

Seems like about the right thing, probably would not take the injectors or fuel pump and just buy those new.

travlee

iTrader: (8)

jhc would be a good one to talk to.. he bought a used SC and had z1 install it.

jhc

You rang?
The FB post looks about right.
I'll try to brief while including pertinent details. I bought a V3 kit from user here who couldn't figure out the split-second timing hardtware (not needed if using UpRev). He had tried and failed to sell it 4 years ago. Brand new blower, the rest was cobbled together for $3K plus shipping. I'll go over the parts-
Brand new V3 blower-sci trim, installed as is.
Small generic intercooler, replaced with TR10, $379
9 row Mishimoto oil cooler, replaced with Z1 25 row plus sandwich thermo $538.
400cc injectors, replaced with ID1050s, $780
Walbro 255lph $98.
ATI super damper crank pulley (street), $389.
PCV vent delete/catch can- no upgrade needed.
Fast Intentions TD 2.5" srainless, $1330.
Z1 test pipes, $240.
AEM FailSafe Wideband $328.
UpRev MAF I bought used here from Terrasmak $80.
Dyno tuning with UpRev $450

I made a spreadsheet to make sure I wasn't forgetting anything. A couple of "gotchas"-
The mounting plate was used and missing some very unique spacers and bolts you can't get at Ace Hardware, $113 direct from Vortech.
The tubes were used and looked awful. I had them powder coated matte black. In hindsight I would have done the mounting plate also. The couplers were almost threadbare so I spent another $90 for nice new black ones.


It's worth noting that at 108K I did have other maintenance done while doing all this-
Replaced every hose under the hood, Z1 master hose set, $198. OEM thermostat $20.

I'm at 418 atm before I go to the smaller 2.87 pulley. It's a completely different car and demands respect now, the back end will slide out on hard shifts to 2nd.
If you're buying a used kit chances are very small it'll be from someone you know so I would try to get one from someone who ran the kit successfully and will answer ALL questions you have. Might want to protect yourself by using a payment system you can do a charge back if what you get doesn't work. Hope this helps, sorry to hijack your thread. Good Luck !

Jim Stephens

Thanks for the answer! Yeah, I am thinking if I want to buy this used, I want it to have come off a working car and hear the "story" of how it was used etc. The one i posted the guy bought it used, but never installed it. It does visually look to have had limited use judging by the piping. I am all over the place lately with cars. Think it is the Covid boredom factor. My family wants me to buy the new Bronco as it is so cool looking, I am kinda waiting to see with the new 400z looks like..and there are a few other cars. LOL Trying to decide if I stick with my 350z and spend money getting it to make some horsepower, or just sell it when the new 400z comes out and buy the horsepower that way(and of course everything that comes with a new car). I do like having a "project" car and then a daily. The interesting thing is with one kid leaving for college in the Fall and the other 3 years away, my car options are changing quite a bit.

Jim Stephens

So, for grins I got an estimate to purchase and install a Turbonetics kit and it came out to about $8600. This was just a rough estimate done over email. Intresting he put a new clutch in there, but I actually wanted to do that anyway. He also indicated while they would install a turbonetics kit, he recommended the twin turbo as there is less piping involved and you don't have as much heat under the engine. He also stated the turbo is not that great a quality(which I knew). I have asked him to give me a quote for what he would recommend to see what that is. No matter how you do it, it looks like and 8k to 12k thing. Still kind of like the idea of a supercharger instead just because of less heat and more linear power. Still have yet to decide I am going to do this and the cost of all this exceeds the cost of the car! Not everything has to make rational sense though.

jhc

I used to laugh when I saw he boys post about costing $10K + to go FI, thinking "I can get a used kit for 3..."
Still think I made the best choice for me going V3, athough with the trim I have and the biggest Treadstone TR10 that will fit under the bumper, there's little room to grow except the 2.87" pulley which will make mb 450.
If you're fine with that I'd encourage you to go for it, SC is absolutely the best bang for the buck.

The money pit is where you decide to pay someone to install it (~22 hrs @$120/per) . With your knowledge and certified helper I think this is an outstanding opportunity to DIY build with a solid kit (used if necessary) to bond and build a really nice, fast car. Couple of quick things -

Obviously make sure the wife/significant other understands the time and money commitment.
Go to Caffeine and Octane, Cars and Coffee/local meets and ask for a ride in an FI'd car like yours, as many as possible.
Decide on a budget, then expect to exceed it a bit. Stuff comes up.
Decide if you can deal with setbacks.
Consider if you still want to compete on track and how it would effect that.
Do not be in a rush, know what kit you want and price you would pay so you're not still on the fence when it comes up for sale.

You seem to be the absolutely thorough sort for homework, so there's that.
I have no doubt you will make the right decision for your family, car and budget.

KBoltz

Jim,

As someone who autocrosses regularly, I can tell you that FI on a TRACK is not a bad thing, you have to watch out for cooling issues and keep close tabs on underhood temps.

Autocrossing a turbo-charged 350Z? Personally, I wouldn't even think about it. By the time you build up decent boost, you will be braking and turning. If you want you and your son to AUTOCROSS, I would keep the motor mostly stock and invest money in suspension and braking upgrades. Since those will kick you out of F Street anyways, build the FOUNDATION for what you want the car to become later. Then FI it and have a blast.

So many people put money into GO that they forget about the WHOA!!! Most events the fastest cars are also the most agile and nimble, the S2000's, the Miatas (the new ND's are crazy). I would go 18 inch wheels and GREAT tires, AP Racing brakes and true coil-over suspension, then replacing all the bushings with Delrin (minimum) and even going solid bushing in the a-arms since this will be (at that time) a dedicated track/autocross car.

Hell, for that kind of coin, I would find a wrecked NA or NB Miata, pitch the body, keep the roller skate and build an Exomotive Exocet. Even with a puny 116 horsepower motor, that car is crazy fun. Got to drive an LS3 powered one. FMR. I couldn't wipe the grin off my face. After I build my shop, that's my goal. LS3 powered Exocet to play with on track and autocross.

Until then, the wife and I will autocross Stitch and have fun.

Jim Stephens

You framed all the decision points up pretty well. Half the fun is researching, learning and figuring it all out before you buy anything. I think this type of purchase is also more a "I want it", rather than logical, because you can also go buy a different car with more horsepower out of the box, but if you love the Z ... I am due for a new primary driving car, which means a much bigger budget like a 400z or something else, so that all weighs into the equation as well. We will see.

Jim Stephens

Yes, that is why I am all over the place on this one. I like the car the way it is (with suspension upgrades and tires on the list) for AutoX. BUT in The Woodlands there is a concentration of really quick cars and I want to surprise some of the local Porsche's, Infinities, Mustangs and other exotics. LOL I am watching those things go flying away from me and am thinking..hmmm if I had a Supercharger... haha. They see my car and immediately come up along side and want to go. Pretty funny.

It is really amazing when you realize the horsepower increases over the last 15 years with Forced Injection and the computers...

KBoltz

Jim,

Speed is money. How fast do you want to go, and how deep are you willing to dig into your pockets?

I am a big fan of Natural Aspiration. I owned a twin turbo Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio. So, I've done the FI bit. My Corvette's dyno sheet



All throttle and no bottle.

Jim Stephens

Yes, the Corvette, is the bang for buck for handling and horsepower together. Just all depends on where you want to go and what you want to play around with. Ok,, now I will look at used Corvettes all day...LOL... That's how bad I am about this stuff. If I had the money and space I would be one of those guys with a big garage and cars stacked up everywhere.

travlee

iTrader: (8)

did someone say Corvette????

KBoltz

keep the Z autocross ready. Get something else for Daily and track.. That's what my wife and i decided to do

Jim Stephens

That is not a bad approach at all. The Z is kind of done except for better tires, unless I want to customize the suspension a bit(bumps me out of class, but may still do it). I really enjoy the car on the AutoX stuff. Fun to drive! I am thinking of buying myself a new(probably 2 or 3 year old) car around end of this year. Could just spend the money there and get something fast and track-able. I have a two guys I hang out with in my RC Boat club that track race. One has a GT3 Porsche and the other had a Corvette then (got married and baby), but is talking about buying another Corvette and getting back into racing. I really don't need a brand new car as I am not driving on a daily basis anymore. My wife has a good basic Honda SUV that is pretty new, so we have the family road trip kind of car. Something to think about.

Update: My soon to be 16 year old son stopped by and we discussed the above. He did not buy into my logic. LOL. He made a compelling argument that it would be much cheaper to invest 8k in the Z and that I would end up with roughly 400hp and that would be plenty to take on a fair share of cars and I would have a great, fast track car as the handling of the Z if very, very good. I paid 8k for the car, plus the 8k for the blower, (and I will ignore the huge some money spent thus far on it), so I am in for 16k for a car I could conceivably sell for at least that amount when I am done. Thus it would lot cheaper than a Corvette or some equivalent car. Then, I could buy the new Ford Bronco as my daily as he loves that SUV. LOL. There you go, from his perspective. He also made it clear I cannot sell the Z as he has put a lot of father/son time into it and wants to keep it for when he gets out of college.

KBoltz

Keep the Z yes, sell it for 16K, good luck with that.

Most modified cars (not all but most) get ZERO to minimal return on the investment. Once you mod it, that's it. Otherwise you are pissing money into the wind.

You can look on Craigslist or FB Marketplace that people are trying to sell modified cars, and not getting one red cent of the mod money returned.

Even full track cars get nowhere near the dollar that bone stock, unmolested cars get.

And remember, that was an ESTIMATE. Of almost 9k. I would say add at least another 33% to play it safe. So, figure $12K plus adding in REAL racing brakes, REAL coil-overs, replacing all the bushings, etc...I just found a used set of AP Racing brakes on Ebay for your Z for 1650 bucks. I'd pick up a spare set of rotors just in case.

The motor in my Corvette is between $15k and $20K. Built 427 bottom end, aftermarket Katech head package, and cam. Plus long tube headers, aftermarket cats and x-pipe. Still run the stock NPP with the Mild to Wild switch.

That car booked at 57k, add in the (let's go worst case scenario and say $20K motor) and it's at $77k. I paid $39K. 36k miles on a babied 2013 60th Anniversary. Modded cars are almost always a Buyers Market.

I paid $7k for Stitch. All in with brakes, Bilstein's, el cheapo Federal tires and Hotchkis sway bar, I'm in it for $8K. If I ball it up, go do it again.

You want a good way to race, fairly inexpensive and have tons of fun? C5 Z06. Can track it all day long and drive it home. I like the top down, hence I went with a 427 Roadster. I can autocross in CAM-S if I choose or just enjoy the hell out of it. Brakes and other consumables are not bad, tracked a 2008 Z51 with upgraded suspension for years the wife and I.

Any money thrown into a car to make it track/autocross capable will yield you tons of fun, but monetarily it is a money pit. I always tell people, get your kids into racing cars on track, they'll never have money for drugs or anything else that can get them into trouble. And they'll eat ramen noodles and bologna sandwiches (and Kraft macaroni and cheese) because it is cheap, and more money for race parts.

Make your Z into a track toy, damn straight. Just don't expect to yield any money out of that investment.

Jim Stephens

Yes, I in no way, even pretend to think any of this is a "good investment" Let's just call it a good rationalization which can get you far! HaHa. It's just for fun really and nothing else. Like most hobbies.