who's gonna be the first?
Originally posted by nis350ztt
So it was actually near 450rwhp then...where hp and tq met?
So it was actually near 450rwhp then...where hp and tq met?
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From: Valdosta, GA
Originally posted by kcobean
He was freehanding, so it's not exact, but regardless of where Tq/HP crossed, the car peaked out at 509 HP. There was never any statement that said where the two lines cross is the peak output.
He was freehanding, so it's not exact, but regardless of where Tq/HP crossed, the car peaked out at 509 HP. There was never any statement that said where the two lines cross is the peak output.
My mistake, it DID make over 500rwhp at peak, regardless of where hp and tq met, that was really to compare to other dyno charts (which isn't smart anyway)?
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From: Midwest
this is why the US is getting slaughtered by europe and asia in international math aptitude tests! LOL...
there really is nothing confusing about the original graph... it has two y-axis scales for a reason! if you look at the scales you will see that at 5252rpms the torque and horsepower are the same value numerically - which they MUST be... BUT, they don't have to be at the same physical spot vertically on the graph since each trace is plotted on a different scale...
what the graph really needs is a 3rd trace and scale that shows how much the play-doh rod bolts are stretching at each point along the way
there really is nothing confusing about the original graph... it has two y-axis scales for a reason! if you look at the scales you will see that at 5252rpms the torque and horsepower are the same value numerically - which they MUST be... BUT, they don't have to be at the same physical spot vertically on the graph since each trace is plotted on a different scale...
what the graph really needs is a 3rd trace and scale that shows how much the play-doh rod bolts are stretching at each point along the way
Yeah, I think the point is that on a graph where Tq and HP are layed out such that the vertical measurement is 1:1 (1 lb of Tq is vertically equivalent to 1 HP), the lines will always meet at 5252 RPM. The freehanded graph, while not exact, does demonstrate that scaling the Tq graph down so that its' Y Axis is 1:1 with the HP graph causes the Tq/HP lines cross at the magic RPM.
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From: Del Rio, Texas
Re: Re: Re: who's gonna be the first?
Originally posted by 2JZfan
kco, just to give you a little background on me so you don't think i was trying to come off as "challenging" or arrogant towards anybody in particular: I have a pretty extensive background with respect to modifying cars. I have built everything from Mustangs and Camaros to Supras and Civics. I own a shop and a dyno and have personally done all of the design, testing, fabrication, tuning and installation work on all of my project cars (I don't mention my shop by name because I'm not here to advertise or attract business, I'm simply doing research on my newest project car). My 640rwhp Supra is actually the lowest power project car I've ever built, and I don't intend to lower that minimum with my G35. I've worked on platforms at both ends of the OEM quality spectrum -- our Mustang, which couldn't make crap for reliable power stock, now makes 1400hp and runs dead-reliable low 8s on radial tires, but basically every piece in the driveline had to be replaced to get there. Our Supras, on the other hand, have run 9s on completely stock bottom ends and drivelines.
Where I live -- the land of rednecks -- people are big on carbs, nitrous and big blocks. Imports are laughed at and thought to be weak in most cases. This is one thing that i've always loved about the Supra. I can walk up to Joe Musclecar and say "gee, you had to build your motor and tranny and it's still blowing up while only making 80% of the power that my little riceburner makes on stock parts!!". Might sound like I'm an *******, but when you constantly hear crap like "why don't you move to China if you like imports so much" or "f--- your jap crap" it makes you a bit bitter at times. Anyway (i'm losing focus here!) with the G35 I would love to be able to claim the same level of over-engineering in these types of "verbal scuffles". I'd love to spank a Cobra or SS and not have to say "well, i do have a fortune in the motor" but rather "nope, it's pretty much stock". If it's a question of reliability, I'll build it, no second thoughts. But it's just nice to have the stock stuff take you farther than most.
So in the end, i'm not challenging any person in particular, but rather the cars themselves. There was a day, way back when, when people thought 400hp was pushing the limits of safety on a stock 2JZ. Now if you are only making 600rwhp people ask "what the hell is wrong with your car?"
I'll tell you this much, in areas where it really counts, I think the VQ35 has it "going on". Our 2JZ race heads have identical portwork to the Bullish Solaras (6 second 1/4 mile, over 200mph for those that live in a cave). Our head porter also did the work on the Performance Motorsports 350Z. I believe his comment was something along the lines of "the VQ35 head will **** all over the 2JZ head when done right. This year I think you will see BIG (2000+) hp from the pro VQ motors". With that in mind, I guess I don't mind the thought of having to put a few hardparts in the bottom end. Having a top notch set of heads to start with is a huge headstart (no pun intended) in the quest for insane hp. You can't always have everything, and if you're only going to get one thing, good heads would be pretty high on the list.
Anyway, enough rambling... good luck to everyone in their quest for more power!!
Jeff
kco, just to give you a little background on me so you don't think i was trying to come off as "challenging" or arrogant towards anybody in particular: I have a pretty extensive background with respect to modifying cars. I have built everything from Mustangs and Camaros to Supras and Civics. I own a shop and a dyno and have personally done all of the design, testing, fabrication, tuning and installation work on all of my project cars (I don't mention my shop by name because I'm not here to advertise or attract business, I'm simply doing research on my newest project car). My 640rwhp Supra is actually the lowest power project car I've ever built, and I don't intend to lower that minimum with my G35. I've worked on platforms at both ends of the OEM quality spectrum -- our Mustang, which couldn't make crap for reliable power stock, now makes 1400hp and runs dead-reliable low 8s on radial tires, but basically every piece in the driveline had to be replaced to get there. Our Supras, on the other hand, have run 9s on completely stock bottom ends and drivelines.
Where I live -- the land of rednecks -- people are big on carbs, nitrous and big blocks. Imports are laughed at and thought to be weak in most cases. This is one thing that i've always loved about the Supra. I can walk up to Joe Musclecar and say "gee, you had to build your motor and tranny and it's still blowing up while only making 80% of the power that my little riceburner makes on stock parts!!". Might sound like I'm an *******, but when you constantly hear crap like "why don't you move to China if you like imports so much" or "f--- your jap crap" it makes you a bit bitter at times. Anyway (i'm losing focus here!) with the G35 I would love to be able to claim the same level of over-engineering in these types of "verbal scuffles". I'd love to spank a Cobra or SS and not have to say "well, i do have a fortune in the motor" but rather "nope, it's pretty much stock". If it's a question of reliability, I'll build it, no second thoughts. But it's just nice to have the stock stuff take you farther than most.
So in the end, i'm not challenging any person in particular, but rather the cars themselves. There was a day, way back when, when people thought 400hp was pushing the limits of safety on a stock 2JZ. Now if you are only making 600rwhp people ask "what the hell is wrong with your car?"
I'll tell you this much, in areas where it really counts, I think the VQ35 has it "going on". Our 2JZ race heads have identical portwork to the Bullish Solaras (6 second 1/4 mile, over 200mph for those that live in a cave). Our head porter also did the work on the Performance Motorsports 350Z. I believe his comment was something along the lines of "the VQ35 head will **** all over the 2JZ head when done right. This year I think you will see BIG (2000+) hp from the pro VQ motors". With that in mind, I guess I don't mind the thought of having to put a few hardparts in the bottom end. Having a top notch set of heads to start with is a huge headstart (no pun intended) in the quest for insane hp. You can't always have everything, and if you're only going to get one thing, good heads would be pretty high on the list.
Anyway, enough rambling... good luck to everyone in their quest for more power!!
Jeff
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