I'm Aiming for 600WHP and Im looking for a way to save some cash without taking any shortcuts...

Would the AAM spacer be just as good as the APS plenum without worrying about reliability?

I was told to get 650cc injectors for 600WHP and I think that with APS you can add up to 6 additional injectors. I also know as the fuel injectors get larger... Idle quality and drivability somewhat decrease.

If I stick with 650cc injectors.. hopefully smaller if I can... and the spacer how close to stock would I be (idle and drivabilty wise) vs two smaller injectors each cylinder to equal a total of 650cc's.. dont know much about this... can someone please help? Thanks!

 

Just want to clarify. The APS Tallboy plenum uses the 6 stock fuel injectors and mounts them in the plenum, i'm not sure if APS is going to offer this for kits other than APS. I imagine it could though.

 

600 whp! Their is no cash saving for this project. If you are really going to do it you are going to go all the way and not look back.
600 whp = thousands multiplied. You could totally complete the project but it will never end as far as $ go. Why are you so concerned about saving a few hundred? That is a deep pockets only club, as far as i know anyway.

 

I think the only way to acquire 600RWHP with the standard VQ35 is by adding a second engine to the chassis. You will most likely have to bore it out to 4.3L through AEBS, in which case you will probably need a complete new plenum anyway (is my thinking right on this?).

 

Ok... well I actually have a the Greddy TT setup in my car now...
A complete finished bottom end and a set of heads on its way to SGP, should be there tomorrow... with a whole fererra setup ... so I do know how many thousands of dollars this will cost as I have already spent close to $20,000... my question wasn't asking how much will 600WHP cost.... I know it costs a lot.

But trying to figure out if something is cheaper that can do the same thing is by no means dumb...

I've already saved at least 3 grand on this by shopping around..
My question was about the the drivability of 650cc injectors...

From what I understand the APS plenum allows you to add more injectors (6 total)... allowing you to put two smaller injectors inside instead of a larger one..(like i said this is what i think.. im not sure... but thats what the ad says).. two smaller injectors will help with idling and drivability... but it costs a lot more plus the plenum as well...

so my point was.... if the larger 650cc injectors are good enough drivability wise then i dont need all that extra stuff... = less money. Thats what im trying to figure out.. I can spend that money on other things... like more car stuff.

 

Posted from 350zluvr.... I think the only way to acquire 600RWHP with the standard VQ35 is by adding a second engine to the chassis. You will most likely have to bore it out to 4.3L through AEBS, in which case you will probably need a complete new plenum anyway (is my thinking right on this?).

My block will have all forged parts on the bottom... ceramic coatings.. +1mm oversize valves... I have a pretty good feeling I can get very close if not over 600WHP with the greddy kit.

 

600whp isn't hard to acheive imo. (rods, pistons, turbo kit, address fuel, new half shafts, clutch and flywheel, tuning, etc.)
Quote from Peter from pm's:
"The beauty of having APS staged injectors (6+6) is the car drives like a stock car when driven slowly and has excellent fuel economy whereaa the 6 mega large injectors tends to always overfuel at y low to mid rpm and therefore the power at low to mid rpm is compromised by over rich air/fuel mixtures."

"I think the approach that APS is going with, the APS tall boy and big fuel system will offer a far more tuneable system, six 500 cc injectors which are stock in the base APS TT system backed up by another 6 large injectors which are mapped to start adding fuel later in the rpm when additional fuel is needed. This will be a far more tuneable approach and won't over fuel the engine at low rpm cruise conditions (off boost highway conditions) as overfueling the engine will cause quick wear to the piston rings."

 

The AEBS kit is a stroker kit. You wouldn't need a new plenum, just new heads I believe (larger combustion chamber, although i'm not sure if there IS any boring done, so this may not be necessary).

 

IIRC the APS plenum will use the standard APS 500cc injectors that came with the kit and plus your stock 290cc (?) injectors to provide the additional fuel.

 

Yep.

 

Hardly , >600rwhp has been accomplished many times already on the VQ35 with Greddy TTs (and soon APS TTs). For example . SGP did it with a built "non stroked , non overbored, non-sleeved" block a year ago". It does apear that at least mild Cams and 94 octane along with commensurate boost and fueling are required though. Oversize valves make it easier to obtiain, but then again not a necessity for this power level.

 

Pretty sure that APS will be selling the Plenum and fuel ssytem upgrade to anyone , not just APS TT buyers. You could prolley run any injector you want in this plenum as long as it fits the holes and fuel rails. You will however; need an aux (6) injector controller / piggyback. APS TT systems already come with the Unichip which can already drive the extra bank. It would also be quite possible to use the OEM injectors in the base and provide all extra fueling via the 6 "larger >500cc" injectors installed into the Plenum.

I think APS has chosen the other way around , 500cc s in the base and OEMs in the Plenum to simplify upgrade and tuning for prior APS TT installs.

 

650cc injectors will not create a drivability problem in our cars. There are people on this board with 1000cc injectors in there cars.
It just not a issue at this point as long as you have correct engine managment. The only time it would possibly be an issue is at idle because you can only pulse the injector so fast but once you leave idle there is enough fueling requirements that it is not a issue.
Gary

 

Gary, Very large injectors can be a problem even with full stand alone engine management, particularly in cruise conditions when you need to maintain Stoich (lamba 1) for good fuel econonmy and long engine life, very rich air/fuel mixtures in cruise conditions will cause accelerated piston ring and cyl bore wear.

With mega large injectors it's sometimes not possible to acheive correct air fuel ratio in partial throttle conditions at low engine rpm, APS has been testing the Z engine with the best stand alone computer on the planet, fact is when you go too big with fuel injectors no engine management can solve the problem of the engine running too rich in partial throttle conditions.

Peter

 

I agree, but he was asking about 650cc which is no where near that limit.
Gary

 

With proper modification to the fuel pump assembly you can get your fuel pressure down in vacuum even with an upgraded pump enough to run a 1000cc without having the car cruise or idle too rich... of course i speak from direct experience of running about 9,000 miles so far on 1000cc.

The thing is... 1000cc is much larger than almost anyone is going to need. Not only that, but a 1000cc injector is going to be a "peak and hold" injector... the factory ECU does not support this (to my knowledge) and really only FCON users have the option to run such an injector.

There are many ways to reach the same goals and I personally elected to run a single large injector per cylinder to meet my needs... so far so good... I never washed out my engine with too much fuel.

-Charles

 

Even with low fuel pressure (3 bar) with a 1000cc injector you're still talking about fuel flow 3 times greater than the stock injector, a little large imho.

Have you ever heard of MOTEC phunk?


I agree phunk and the single large injector method is certainly one way to support high Horse power though not necessarily the best or only way, horses for courses I guess you could say.

Peter

 

Oh right!! Sorry, I neglected to read your sig. Your well on your way and good luck bruschijr

 

Peter, your PM box is full, just thought i'd let ya know. I'll send my PM once you clean it out some, just let me know once you do.

 

Done.

Peter