booger - if your MAF is dirty you can buy some elictrical component cleaner to clean it. Do not use Carb cleaner, as it may damage the sensor. You should be able to get the electrical cleaner at a computer store or auto parts store.

gq - if I do the idle air learning with Nissan will I lose my TS flash for the 1000 rpm idle? I would think this would reset that portion of the ecu. I do not want to go back to idling at 650rpms with cams and 1000cc injectors if I can avoid it. She idles so much smoother at 1000. AF at idle is a little rich, but never richer than 13.2, (usually between 14.7 and 13.8). When it bounces the AF does not change much, just the vacuum on the boost guage and the rpms.

phunk - this seems like it will be worth checking. If this is the issue I can keep my 1000 rpm idle. Go ahead and elaborate though. I am also interested in this since my idle only bounces after a loaded run. During start up and idle after 30 to 45 seconds, the car finds it idle. If I even out timing across the rpm range (500 to 1250), this theoretically should keep it from happening?

Richie - I thought that was the case, but thanks for the confirmation.

 

When TS does their RPM adjustment, they change the set value for warm idle. For instance, they set the target at 1000rpm, and the ECU will learn itself to that idle...instead of the factory spec which is 650-700rpm. You will want to double check that with TS, but the idle air learning procedure should have no impact on the set value. You will be asking for Nissan to do the idle air learning procedure, but not actually set or change the idle....hope that makes sense.

 

gq_626:

As many people mentioned that Nissan dealer can be able to set the idle rpm up to 900 or 1000 rpm (whatever they prefer within an available range) via Consult II... does it give the same effect as asking TS to set the idle to 1000rpm??? Or we are talking about different things here?!

cheers,

richie

 

When you take the car to the dealer, its a two step process. If the car isnt idling well, you perform the idle air learning procedure, then check the idle. If the idle is less than desire, you use the consult II to physically raise the target value.

Also note, that late 04 and all 05's have ULEV-2 complaint ECU's, which means you CANNOT raise the idle at all..even with consult II.

Maybe TS will figure out a hack..but right now...its not possible.

 

gq_626:

Thanks... so does it mean.... when the dealer physically set the idle up to lets say... 900rpm (with '03 ecu), will it be set permenantly even when the ecu is resetted Or it will need to be re-perform by nissan with consult II again? I meant will the target value get resetted at all when the car is disconnected from the battery.

cheers mate!

richie

 

Well... interesting finding. I was right there when they hooked up the Consult II and went into the idle air volume learn function. The Consult II never learned it. Very strange, so we backed out and tried it again.... Nothing. It never finished. Just basically tried to process, but never completed. Could have something to do with the VPro or the TS flash.

BTW the Consult II showed idle and allowed adjustments, but could not configure the idle air volume. Back to the drawing board. Next I will try the timing map, but will not be near the shop for a few days. I will keep you posted.

 

Last time I was at the dealer , we tried the air idle learning and it would do it either . Wondering if it isnt the TS flash that stops it . I just had the normal spec flash and hadnt flashed for the injectors yet .

 

oh yea... i would put the MAF back in the car... there is no need to take it out really... and you only loose functions.

 

Removing it gives a cleaner flow into the throttle body with less obstruction. Why would you want your incoming air split up and turbulance introduced? Especially *after* the turbo and intercooler? You do not lose anything by removing it. The HKS works off of a map based system so it does not take any readings at all from the MAS.

 

No need to tell me about how the FCON works... remember I was the first one using it?

its very possible that the ECU uses the MAF to help stabilize idle... Cars that are very inteligent these days get stupid fast when you start taking out sensors.

It wouldnt surprise me at all if putting it back in immediatly fixed the idle.

If you dont want to split up the air might as well take the intercooler out too, last I recall it had several rows .. oh and take out that throttle body too.. the plate shaft is about the size of a MAF.

 

Calm down Charles

We are tuning his car next week so we will play with it and see what happens. I would be willing to bet that is not the issue.

 

just busting your ***** and trying to give ideas

looking forward to seeing the results!

 

Yeah so am I

IM me tomorrow....I have a few things to talk to you about

 

ok guy... update on the idle of MY CAR now (nismo spec 1 engine with motec m600, although it is an n/a tuned, but with cams like this, should have some similar behaviours)...

After I swapped out the flywheel (JUN) and replaced with a heavier flywheel (Nismo)... it did not make any differences straight away as the motec was not re-tune for the heavier flywheel....

This morning, took half a day off to get my car into the tuning house again and they tune up the motec with the nismo flywheel and also set the idle to be at 1000rpm (even setting it at 800rpm shouldn't be too much of the drama either) and also re-adjust the throttle responsiveness to suit the heavier flywheel... the idle now with or without the air-conditioning turned on is PERFECT.... stays there quietly, well... it moves just a tiny bit SOMETIMES (quite rare actually, it is around 10-20rpm or so, that you cannot really tell).....

According to my tuner, he was correct, the lighter flywheel does make quite a lot of differences with those aftermarket replacement ECUs... as nissan spent millions to make the idle doing what it should do for the majority of the road user (non-modifier), therefore by using those near standard weight flywheel and pulley will be easier to be tuned up closer to the original spec.

And I think PHUNK is correct... better keep the MAF back to the car as motec is ALSO using it as part of the system... so I guess it is quite important too...

TODAY IS JUST A HAPPY DAY FOR ME.... trying to sort this idle problem out for quite a while already... and it is finally done!

cheers,

richie

 

Richie - Good to know. I want to see if there are other ways to fix this issue. I would like to believe you can tune around it.

It looks like a new debate has started...

MAF or no MAF on a 350Z with a stand alone. I had the MAF for awhile with no real advantages that I could see, and used the MAP sensor to tune over 1psi. Maybe replacing this could help with the cams... maybe not. I have the lightweight flywheel and I am not getting rid of it no matter what. I can handle the idle if that is the case. I believe I would need a new clutch if I get rid of the flywheel.

I think we will look at the timing in the rpm range of idle as phunk suggested, and see if that fixes the issue first. If not, maybe we will try putting the MAF back in.

Phunk - you had your MAF out before your build if I remember correctly. We had a talk about Jotech leaving it in, and you said to take it out. Do you know anything new from experience with your car? I know you are running cams as well, so your input is appreciated.

 

You guys are too funny. Glad we can all get along.

One more thing. I spoke to TS, and guess what....they CAN raise idle with 04.5 and 05 ECU's. Looks like a mispoke earlier. They are reflashing mine to 1000rpm...in anticipation of the cam.

 

Does this happen when you come to a gradual stop or when you come to an abrupt stop? I would think an abrubt stop could cause a couple of issues resulting in a slower return to idle.

 

t32gzz:

My tuner had tried that out before with the lighter flywheel on, and it did not work at all... but we are talking about different computers here, so it might turn out to be great with the F-Con V pro!

zzzya:

How you come to stop does not really matter... even when the car is sitting there idling itself (with nice idle), and when you give a bit of throttle input, you are actually disturbing the idle already and the idle hunt will then start until it finds the correct idle...

cheers,

richie

 

Richie - you concur that MAF is needed - Yes / No

 

AmyCroft:

Yes... according to my tuner (was formally the Group A Skyline GT-R engine dvelopment manager for Winfield Racing/Gibson Motorsport in '90s), he is still using the standard MAF as part of the MoTeC stand alone system (also with the motec air temperature sensor as well)... he will not include it if it is not needed at all... so I would say Yes to that question.

cheers,

richie

EDIT:
This is the link to his workshop and you can see a lot of GTRs there... Just for your own reference...
http://www.hyper-tech.com.au/store/page.pl?id=262