Kinetix SSV Dyno Results
06-17-2005, 09:09 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by sentry65
can we get the graph to be more normalized?
This was comparing the OEM plenum to the SSV?
You can always lean out the A/F more and probably get even more power... That's what I wanna see. After you tune for the SSV, let's see what power you get
You obviously were tuned pretty well before the SSV
this manifold still has some nice advantages over OEM or crawford or probably the APS tall boy
weighs 10-12 lbs less
less heat soak
capable of direct port nitrous
looks nice
This was comparing the OEM plenum to the SSV?
You can always lean out the A/F more and probably get even more power... That's what I wanna see. After you tune for the SSV, let's see what power you get
You obviously were tuned pretty well before the SSV
this manifold still has some nice advantages over OEM or crawford or probably the APS tall boy
weighs 10-12 lbs less
less heat soak
capable of direct port nitrous
looks nice
Less heat soak, not exactly.............
Actually, stainless is the wrong material to use for induction purposes.It retains heat so this means that once it is hot(and it will get hot because the heat will transfer from the aluminum heads,block,etc...)it stays hot! This is why stainless is used for exhaust systems.It keeps the heat in and the energy up.Just something to think about.
06-17-2005, 09:16 AM
#42
Originally Posted by TurboTim
Less heat soak, not exactly.............
Actually, stainless is the wrong material to use for induction purposes.It retains heat so this means that once it is hot(and it will get hot because the heat will transfer from the aluminum heads,block,etc...)it stays hot! This is why stainless is used for exhaust systems.It keeps the heat in and the energy up.Just something to think about.
Actually, stainless is the wrong material to use for induction purposes.It retains heat so this means that once it is hot(and it will get hot because the heat will transfer from the aluminum heads,block,etc...)it stays hot! This is why stainless is used for exhaust systems.It keeps the heat in and the energy up.Just something to think about.
but what if you jethot coat it, use a thermogasket, and use a vented hood?
That's my solution
the OEM aluminum plenum can't be any better - it covers the entire top of the engine and helps trap the heat in because it's so wide and big. It also weighs more because there's more metal. More metal means it's harder to cool off. Maybe if there were some heat fins on it or something but there aren't...
Last edited by sentry65; 06-17-2005 at 09:20 AM.
06-17-2005, 09:48 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by nis350ztt
I don't believe Lorca's 350Z is tuned. I'm 90% sure he was using out-of-the-box tune from APS for 93 octane. So, anyone with an APS TT using stock maps will gain similar power. 10rwhp is sad for $800, you could have made 30-40rwhp for the same money with a few other products (upper plenum and test pipes come to mind). It's a pretty manifold, doesn't seem like much more than that. I hope you will see 20rwhp after a tune though, still not worth it (IMO), but not too bad for an intake manifold IMO.
Glad to see some real results on this I.M. that weren't skewed or anything though, thanks!
Glad to see some real results on this I.M. that weren't skewed or anything though, thanks!
06-17-2005, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by sentry65
but what if you jethot coat it, use a thermogasket, and use a vented hood?
That's my solution
the OEM aluminum plenum can't be any better - it covers the entire top of the engine and helps trap the heat in because it's so wide and big. It also weighs more because there's more metal. More metal means it's harder to cool off. Maybe if there were some heat fins on it or something but there aren't...
That's my solution
the OEM aluminum plenum can't be any better - it covers the entire top of the engine and helps trap the heat in because it's so wide and big. It also weighs more because there's more metal. More metal means it's harder to cool off. Maybe if there were some heat fins on it or something but there aren't...
06-17-2005, 10:45 AM
#45
Originally Posted by mcderns
Aluminum dissapates the heat a lot better than stainless. It also weighs a lot than stainless. I bet the oem plenum cools a lot quicker than the Kinetix IM, due to the fact thats its aluminum. You dont ever see stainless intercoolers, radiatiors, oil coolers etc, because aluminum is much better at dissapating heat.
even when we're talking about 20 lbs of aluminum vs 10 lbs of stainless steel? I think the SSV has more surface area for it's size than the OEM plenum. And what does it matter what material it is if you jet hot coat it, use a thermo gasket, and vented hood?
as it stands right now, the alternative is to use a crawford, APS, or spacer which pushes the plenum closer to the hood which means less likely for air to flow over the plenum and take any heat away
Last edited by sentry65; 06-17-2005 at 10:48 AM.
06-17-2005, 10:57 AM
#46
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Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
The Nissan manifold, and the Crawford and APS higher volume plenums, are very well engineered. Nissan spends countless R&D hours developing their plenum. The middle plenum plate is a engineering marvel. It maximizes velocity and distribution between cylinders, and in large part, contributes to the crisp throttle response we see on the VQ. You will recall that the 2005 Track Edition made some changes to the middle plate, which was primarily done to improve top end power, while the mid range and trq peak diminished. Yes, other changes were made to that motor to improve top end, but each element layers on the other...and the end result is more top-end, less mid range. Many people have tried to improve on it, and were unsuccessful.
06-17-2005, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by sentry65
but what if you jethot coat it, use a thermogasket, and use a vented hood?
That's my solution
the OEM aluminum plenum can't be any better - it covers the entire top of the engine and helps trap the heat in because it's so wide and big. It also weighs more because there's more metal. More metal means it's harder to cool off. Maybe if there were some heat fins on it or something but there aren't...
That's my solution
the OEM aluminum plenum can't be any better - it covers the entire top of the engine and helps trap the heat in because it's so wide and big. It also weighs more because there's more metal. More metal means it's harder to cool off. Maybe if there were some heat fins on it or something but there aren't...
Aluminum dissipates heat much better then stainless which means it will cool off quicker.The mass of the OEM plenum is that is actually a benefit. It acts as a heat sink so it pulls heat out of the charge air. More mass, more dissipation.So yes the OEM plenum is much better then a stainless plenum.It might not flow as well but it will never get as hot or stay as hot as the stainless plenum will.If stainless was a good material to use for induction then I would use it solely since I am probably one of the best stainless(and aluminum too) welders you will ever meet. Unfortunately it has its place and that is............for exhausts,headers,etc......Ofcourse this is just an opinion from someone who has built a couple 1000+ WHP 3.0L motors:^)
06-17-2005, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by sentry65
even when we're talking about 20 lbs of aluminum vs 10 lbs of stainless steel? I think the SSV has more surface area for it's size than the OEM plenum. And what does it matter what material it is if you jet hot coat it, use a thermo gasket, and vented hood?
as it stands right now, the alternative is to use a crawford, APS, or spacer which pushes the plenum closer to the hood which means less likely for air to flow over the plenum and take any heat away
as it stands right now, the alternative is to use a crawford, APS, or spacer which pushes the plenum closer to the hood which means less likely for air to flow over the plenum and take any heat away
here is another option...........
http://www.speedforceracing.com/prod...y_g35imani.php
06-17-2005, 11:00 AM
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So is the tall boy plenum a better buy than the Kinetix ?? I have not heard of any true numbers on the tall boy either.
Just trying to figure out what is a worthy addition to my FI.
Just trying to figure out what is a worthy addition to my FI.
06-17-2005, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mcderns
Aluminum dissapates the heat a lot better than stainless. It also weighs a lot than stainless.
Originally Posted by mcderns
You dont ever see stainless intercoolers, radiatiors, oil coolers etc, because aluminum is much better at dissapating heat.
in intercoolers and radiators, you don't care about the "out" temperature of the air, but in the manifold, since the only cold air is inside the tube and going into the engine, you don't want heat easily transferred into it. (The heat will go into the charge more readily than the under-hood air as it is much colder
)
06-17-2005, 11:10 AM
#52
the concept of a heat sink is that more SURFACE AREA needs to be in contact with air.
The fact that the OEM manifold is thicker doesn't lend itself to more surface area, it means it'll soak heat longer that if it was thin. It probably takes longer to heat up than if it was thin aluminum, but after a few minutes of WOT runs it'll heat up anyway. I know, if the OEM manifold was 100 times bigger/thicker, it wouldn't be as hot. But that's because it has a lot of ability to soak heat.
If you had a 100 times thicker manifold, after some hard driving or daily driving in the summer, it'd act more as a heater. It'd be constantly releasing heat into the engine bay and will never have a way of cooling off. Who wants a big block of heat in their engine bay?
With a vented hood, it'd pull out the heat either way so it wouldn't soak as bad
Aluminum is better than stainless steel as far as heat transfer, but we know the SSV weighs 10-12 lbs less than the big OEM manifold. It has a lot more surface area because of all the individual piping being exposed to air.
I think it'll let more heat directly from the engine up and out of a vented hood easier because it isn't as wide and air can run between the individual runners.
Jet hot coating it will insulate the manifold and help it from absorbing heat in the first place. A thermogasket keeps the heat from directly transfering from the engine to the manifold. And of course a vented hood will suck the heat out anyway.
The fact that the OEM manifold is thicker doesn't lend itself to more surface area, it means it'll soak heat longer that if it was thin. It probably takes longer to heat up than if it was thin aluminum, but after a few minutes of WOT runs it'll heat up anyway. I know, if the OEM manifold was 100 times bigger/thicker, it wouldn't be as hot. But that's because it has a lot of ability to soak heat.
If you had a 100 times thicker manifold, after some hard driving or daily driving in the summer, it'd act more as a heater. It'd be constantly releasing heat into the engine bay and will never have a way of cooling off. Who wants a big block of heat in their engine bay?
With a vented hood, it'd pull out the heat either way so it wouldn't soak as bad
Aluminum is better than stainless steel as far as heat transfer, but we know the SSV weighs 10-12 lbs less than the big OEM manifold. It has a lot more surface area because of all the individual piping being exposed to air.
I think it'll let more heat directly from the engine up and out of a vented hood easier because it isn't as wide and air can run between the individual runners.
Jet hot coating it will insulate the manifold and help it from absorbing heat in the first place. A thermogasket keeps the heat from directly transfering from the engine to the manifold. And of course a vented hood will suck the heat out anyway.
Last edited by sentry65; 06-17-2005 at 11:17 AM.
06-18-2005, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by sentry65
no one has any comments on jethot coating the SSV? I still think with a thermogasket, and vented hood, the heat issue is moot
Jethot coating keeps the heat in, so it can effectively raise up the charge air temps.
06-18-2005, 10:20 AM
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The thing you guys do not understand is aluminums ability to dissipate heat is second to none.This means it is always dissipating the heat constantly.It will not get hot and stay hot.It cools very rapidly.This is why we have to heat up thich aluminum plate,intercooler cores,etc..... on a hotplate before we can weld them.Even with 5000F torch the thick plate,intercooler cores,etc..... dissipate heat so rapidly that they can be a real ***** to weld if you do not heat them up to about 400F before you even think of hitting it with your torch.On top of that an intercooler that peaks out at 1250+F when welding will cool to ambient in about 5-10 minutes!
Stainless cannot do this.Once the stainless gets hot, it stays hot for a pretty long period of time, with no ability to dissipate heat.
Stainless cannot do this.Once the stainless gets hot, it stays hot for a pretty long period of time, with no ability to dissipate heat.
06-18-2005, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Machupo
i'd imagine that jet hot keeps temps on either side seperate rather than be magically one-way 
By applying the thermocoating to an intake(whether it is aluminum,stainless or unobtanium), you are keeping the heat inside the intake.That is what Jet-hot is for, to keep the heat in. Not the best choice for induction.
06-18-2005, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by xxlbeerZ
Are there a bunch of posts missing from this thread now?
Censor those posts for sponsorship dollars!!!!
Censor those posts for sponsorship dollars!!!!
06-18-2005, 05:35 PM
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I deleted them. I didn't want this thread getting out of hand. Some people just can't accept someone else's opinion on a product. If I defend myself it just escalates further. I'll just stay out of SSV threads unless they pertain to someone asking which intake manifold/upper intake plenum they should get.
Lorca, I apologize for that.
Lorca, I apologize for that.