I got sidetracked into this topic during my last inquiry so now I am posting it separately. APS out of the box beats PE kit hands down, case closed (and for almost same price too). But, in terms of changing boost settings and whatever else, the APS is not too flexible. So this is my question. A PE kit with a fuel computer (like Greddy e-manage or something), a boost controller and 510cc injectors (instead of the original 380cc) would give me all the APS would PLUS an ability to change boost while driving. Am I right or wrong? Please help b/c if I do not decide between these 2 kits I will go mad. Or drive everyone else mad.

 

I'd get the APS kit. You'll have to upgrade the internal wastegates on the PE kit as well, so there is no advantage to using the PE kit IMO.

 

ok....

the PE kit can be had for less money than the APS kit, that's just a fact (assuming the APS price is still in the $7K range). To change the wastegates on the PE, you only need to buy the springs for under $20, not the complete wastegate actuators (since the PE actuators can be taken apart and the spring swapped out).

Another fact that needs to be corrected here that you referred to above. APS supplies injectors that are 500cc at 4 bar differential, NOT 500cc at the normal rating (which is 42.5 psi or ~3 bar). That puts them in the ~400cc range if you want to compare apples to apples. The 380cc PE injectors that are supplied with the kit are PLENTY (assuming you are staying with the stock motor). Just getting the facts straight..

That being said, if I were buying today, i'd be buying APS for sure, even seeing as it is more expensive than the PE. Reasons for this are several, mostly because you get a far more complete kit for the money, namely the watercooling lines supplied, and of course the engine management, and few other little things that make it a complete package. almost forgot, the support that you get from APS is superb, whereas with PE....

 

Gurgen, I see your point. How much extra in terms of parts/labor would it run me to watercool the PE turbos?
Also it seemed to me so far that very few people have succeded it changing boost settings on the APS kit, where as mostly all (yourself included) managed to do so on the PE. This is coming from me being concerned about having too much power to the wheels in situations when I do NOT want to have it there (rain, traffic, etc). But then again, you did mention that your boost can vary from 8.5-20 psi, not 4.4 (as in pe starter)-20 psi. So if I would want the boost to be around 12-13 psi (should be enough to make 500whp), how low would I be able to turn the PE kit if the weather went to crap all of the sudden?
You also mentioned that PE tech support is not too great. I spoke to these guys at their US office and they were completely straight, honest and a pleasure to speak to. Is that something that has changed for you once you have bought the kit (seen that before).
Also, as I spoke to PE people, they mentioned that their turbos use electronically controlled wastegates and those open so quickly, they need no BOV. How well does that work? (or did you put one in?) And finally, you are probably one of the people running FI for the longest time so far, how is the tranny holding out (I believe you have a 5AT)? And how aggresively do you drive your G?
This decision will be the end of me. I should just get a second job, buy a second Z, and put APS in one and the PE in the other....

 

BTW, if I did decide on the PE, do you think would it work with Greddy E-manage and PRofec boost controller, on top of the ECU reflash to match the completeness of the APS kit with boost ajustability as an added bonus? I am sure that in course of your project you have considered these parts. I really appreciate all you input.

 

LOL. That would certainly be a good idea.

 

The only thing I would use the TS reflash is for ignition timing (which, I would actually just use GReddy's ignition timing harness).

 

Oleg...

that's wayyyyy too much typing for me my friend... Let's do this, I'll answer as much as possible (tired), and you can jsut call me and i will explain what you want to know on the phone, as I feel that you will have more questions on top of that. You have been pretty good about doing your research and asking objective questions.. so i don't mind helping you out at all. 323-578-0587 cell

OK.. now..
It would probably cost about $150 or so in parts + labor to connect the watercooling, I am in the process of lining up all the parts.

I changes the actuator springs to make achieving higher boost levels more consistent... in short, the boost controller can only do so much, you will have to have the base boost (springs) changed to achieve higher boost. By many people's estimate, and this may be a liberal one rather than a conservative, you do not want to add more than 100% (i.e. double the boost) with a boost controller, usign the wastegate/actuator spring rating as the baseline. THis is why the 6.5psi springs on the APS kit are (wisely) limited to about 11-12 psi in their boost controller.

My boost will probably not go over 15-16 psi realistically, 20psi is unsafe IMO on these pistons (while they can take 15-16 psi all they long). This ought to put me well into 500rwhp range.

PE people. I do not think (or didn't intend) to say that the PE people are not nice or dishonest. However, they don't have the technical expertise that APS has. period.

On electronically controlled wastegates???? ok this is pure bologna!!! The wastegate actuators (single ported) connect together with a T, and connect to the pre-TB tube. As all wastegates, they are controlled by pressure. Crudely put, the springs are designed to resist compressing until 0.3bar of pressure is exerted upon them; when this takes place, they are compressed, and since they aretied to the actuators which are connected to the wastegates, the wastegates open and allow the air to go around the turbine, following the path of least resistance. Hence, no more boost is developed once you reach your target. Now... you can have an electronic boost controller to effectively scale the manifold pressure to do the same thing at a desired boost setting, and the controller is electronic, but it does not change how the turbo wastegates operate... YEs they are smaller and respond a lot faster than external wastegates (from my understanding and research), but they are not 'electronically controlled'. As to whether this makes the BOV unnecessary, i will let the guys rspond to that. I would personally not expose the system, to such pressure shocks, which BOV can prevent.

More on the tranny another time.. talk to you soon

HTH