Potential engine problem....we're stumped
So will this be the 1st APS TT blown motor? (i'm not in any way insinuating that it is directly related to the APS TT)
Like everyone says though, now's the chance to build it bigger and better!
Originally Posted by ccartwright
Thanks Sharif, and I'm still going back and forth on the dual ball bearing water cooled shift ****. I mean, 20whp for around $100 is really a good deal. 
i feel your pain man!...i've been through it all!
black smoke i presume?...cracked ringland maybe?...as said before, loud, scary noise, and lots of smoking= bad news
sorry to hear about that man...on the bright side, these forged internals and other build up parts are SOOOOO much more readily available now, this will cut back the downtime by a lot!
good luck
black smoke i presume?...cracked ringland maybe?...as said before, loud, scary noise, and lots of smoking= bad news
sorry to hear about that man...on the bright side, these forged internals and other build up parts are SOOOOO much more readily available now, this will cut back the downtime by a lot!
good luck
Originally Posted by ccartwright
Actually it was really light blue or white smoke.
if it is oil, the most likely ways that it is making it out your exhaust is:
turbo seal - possible bad turbo seal (if water cooled then it would be coolant/water getting through, not oil)
-in the case of my setup (greddy tt) if the engine is overfilled on oil, even the slightest bit, it would not allow the turbos to drain as quick as they are supplied with oil, the oil squeezed out the turbo seals- black smoke
piston/ring issue- have they checked the plugs to see if they look uniform...any oil on the plugs?...do a compression test-may not show too much- but will identify an extreme loss of compression easily...do a leakdown...will tell you a bit more than the compression test--even though i have heard that a headgasket issue could go undetected by both of these tests (but you leaned towards the smoke being oil in origin as opposed to coolant)
valve stem seals: another way oil can get into the combustion chamber- only much less likely
GOOD LUCK...keep us posted!
Originally Posted by ccartwright
Actually it was really light blue or white smoke.
Also, I am blown away that they said that thye did not want to do a compression check, especially when they are 98% sure that it's in the engine. That's just plain stupid and discrediting. In fact, if what i postulated above is true, you are CERTAIN to have at least a heavily fouled plug, if not one thatis entirely soaked in oil (like mine was after blowing the side of my piston). Inspecting the plugs alone could be telling in your case.
Many of us have been there... no sweat. As was said above, the stuff is MUCH more easily available now, albeit not much cheaper than it was before.
Originally Posted by Zivman
that is VERY common. If the oil soaked the o2 sensors, they could have not been reading properly. As a result the car has a big time problem sending correct amounts of fuel and will have a big time loppy idle and cause stalling.
I've had my O2s completely disconnected and the car ran just fine..exactly like when they were connected. All it does it trigger the MIL.
Now the 05 350Z comes with Wideband O2s...these are a completely different animal and can give a much better range of A/F readings to the ECU for much more effective conditional engine control.
Originally Posted by BriGuyMax
That is completely incorrect. Narrowband O2 sensors do not control your engine's A/F ratio by themselves. All narrowbands do is FINE TUNE the AFR during constant engine speed operation, such as cruising on the highway. Your ECU has base AFR maps built into it from the factory and uses those along with readings from your IAT sensor, MAF sensor, knock sensor, and TP sensor.
I've had my O2s completely disconnected and the car ran just fine..exactly like when they were connected. All it does it trigger the MIL.
Now the 05 350Z comes with Wideband O2s...these are a completely different animal and can give a much better range of A/F readings to the ECU for much more effective conditional engine control.
I've had my O2s completely disconnected and the car ran just fine..exactly like when they were connected. All it does it trigger the MIL.
Now the 05 350Z comes with Wideband O2s...these are a completely different animal and can give a much better range of A/F readings to the ECU for much more effective conditional engine control.
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
Actually, the 2004's with a production date of Nov and beyond also come with widebands. Mine is a Nov03 production 2004 model, and it has the widebands as well.
If you have widebands then how the hell are you running a piggyback?? Cars with stock widebands will try like hell to achieve their preset optimal AFR. Which on the Z is WELL over 13:1. A 13:1+ AFR and boost on a higher compression motor = boom.
After talking to people about this issue that actually know what they are talking about, I was informed that as of right now you pretty much can't run boost on a wideband ECU controlled 350Z until someone breaks the ECU code so you have control to override the widebands.
Originally Posted by nis350ztt
APS did testing and only found slight differences in the base tune that is needed for wideband 350Z applications.
ok...great..but that doesn't mean that this guy's narrowband O2'd car should be stalling because his nearly useless O2 sensors get oil on them.
Originally Posted by BriGuyMax
If you have widebands then how the hell are you running a piggyback?? Cars with stock widebands will try like hell to achieve their preset optimal AFR. Which on the Z is WELL over 13:1. A 13:1+ AFR and boost on a higher compression motor = boom.
After talking to people about this issue that actually know what they are talking about, I was informed that as of right now you pretty much can't run boost on a wideband ECU controlled 350Z until someone breaks the ECU code so you have control to override the widebands.
After talking to people about this issue that actually know what they are talking about, I was informed that as of right now you pretty much can't run boost on a wideband ECU controlled 350Z until someone breaks the ECU code so you have control to override the widebands.
most of the 04 cars and beyond have widebands. You can determine this easily by looking at the sensor....5 wire is wideband.I can tell you with absolute certainty, that you can tune and run these piggybacks with widebands. The ECU has a target, but its overidden via Injector Pulse Width increases, and higher than normal fuel pressure. It's been done all the time....on the Greddy, APS, and Vortech kits...no new news there.
Originally Posted by BriGuyMax
After talking to people about this issue that actually know what they are talking about, I was informed that as of right now you pretty much can't run boost on a wideband ECU controlled 350Z until someone breaks the ECU code so you have control to override the widebands.
awww, briguy, it looks like you crawled out of your cave and you are spreading your sweet attitude on other parts of this forum...
"people who actually know what they are talking about"
keep it up, you continue to prove how much you really don't know (and with such style and charisma)
Originally Posted by 350zDCalb
awww, briguy, it looks like you crawled out of your cave and you are spreading your sweet attitude on other parts of this forum...
"people who actually know what they are talking about"
keep it up, you continue to prove how much you really don't know (and with such style and charisma)
"people who actually know what they are talking about"
keep it up, you continue to prove how much you really don't know (and with such style and charisma)
The person who told me this was the same person who you call with questions about the Z and FI.
Crawled out of my cave??? WTF is that supposed to mean?
All I was trying to do here was to stop some misinformation about narrowband O2 sensors..not sit here and argue about widebands and what year car they came on and how to tune a car with them. I'm not familiar with them and seeked the knowledge of the same expert that you guys do for an answer a while back, well obviously the answer has changed since then.
Attitude huh?? Just because you're butthurt about another thread you have to drag that in here huh? Nice.
Originally Posted by BriGuyMax
The person who told me this was the same person who you call with questions about the Z and FI.
Crawled out of my cave??? WTF is that supposed to mean?
All I was trying to do here was to stop some misinformation about narrowband O2 sensors..not sit here and argue about widebands and what year car they came on and how to tune a car with them. I'm not familiar with them and seeked the knowledge of the same expert that you guys do for an answer a while back, well obviously the answer has changed since then.
Attitude huh?? Just because you're butthurt about another thread you have to drag that in here huh? Nice.
Crawled out of my cave??? WTF is that supposed to mean?
All I was trying to do here was to stop some misinformation about narrowband O2 sensors..not sit here and argue about widebands and what year car they came on and how to tune a car with them. I'm not familiar with them and seeked the knowledge of the same expert that you guys do for an answer a while back, well obviously the answer has changed since then.
Attitude huh?? Just because you're butthurt about another thread you have to drag that in here huh? Nice.
Originally Posted by 350zDCalb
all i'm saying (in a funny way, at that) is drop the attitude, think before you type something, i'm sure i'm not the only one who saw you as coming off like a jerk in your response to sharif...just calm down, we're here to help each other..no "points" for who is MORE RIGHT- so if you actaully have something to add, try to add it without attacking, it's just lame
Originally Posted by failsafe306
On the way home, noticed some smoke coming out when I decelerated; I just assumed it was the turbos burning out some of the residue from production. But I thought it was strange that it didn't do it all the time, just under decel.
On the drive home, water temp got pretty hot, but never pegged the "H" on the gauge. The highest I saw was a little more than halfway between the middle and "H". Turned on the heater full blast, baby'd it the whole drive home (appx 3.5 miles).
I got the car home, found the water leak and fixed it. Took it for a drive, boosted great, but still, the smoking persisted. Around this time I hear about other forum members kits smoking so I started commenting about mine doing the same. The problem never got any better after changing oil volume and further trimming the oil returns, so I scheduled an appt with GRD. I drove up to Chicago, about a ten hour drive. When I arrived there I had racked up around 1000 miles give or take a few since the install, and car was running great, just smoking some.
Day 1. Tuan put it on the dyno and found the boost was low; like 6-7 psi. He tuned it up to 9psi and told me to return the next day to do a boost leak check. When I got in the car to leave the first day, every time I let it rev down on its own, it died. Never once did it before. I should also mention that they installed my Crawford plenum before tuning. Oh, and they had to replace my BOV because the original one was so tight it wouldn't open AT ALL.
Day 2. Turns out there was no boost leaking anywhere. I ask if he could try to tune it so it doesn't die on me everytime, so he takes the car back and does some stuff on the laptop I assume, but still couldn't figure out why it was dying. It was a Saturday and no techs working that day, so we agree that I'd stay an extra few days and bring it back in on Monday so Earl could check it out.
As soon as I left, like literally in front of GRD, I got on it a little bit past half throttle, and I hear a loud BOOM, like a backfire, or the engine falling out from under my car.
I look in the rearview, and see nothing but massive amounts of James Bond smoke. But the car still had power, and I noticed no leaks. Now it smokes all the time, especially when under boost. Not just on decel like before. What do you guys think could've happened? Broken ring? Ringland? Cracked piston even?
On the drive home, water temp got pretty hot, but never pegged the "H" on the gauge. The highest I saw was a little more than halfway between the middle and "H". Turned on the heater full blast, baby'd it the whole drive home (appx 3.5 miles).
I got the car home, found the water leak and fixed it. Took it for a drive, boosted great, but still, the smoking persisted. Around this time I hear about other forum members kits smoking so I started commenting about mine doing the same. The problem never got any better after changing oil volume and further trimming the oil returns, so I scheduled an appt with GRD. I drove up to Chicago, about a ten hour drive. When I arrived there I had racked up around 1000 miles give or take a few since the install, and car was running great, just smoking some.
Day 1. Tuan put it on the dyno and found the boost was low; like 6-7 psi. He tuned it up to 9psi and told me to return the next day to do a boost leak check. When I got in the car to leave the first day, every time I let it rev down on its own, it died. Never once did it before. I should also mention that they installed my Crawford plenum before tuning. Oh, and they had to replace my BOV because the original one was so tight it wouldn't open AT ALL.
Day 2. Turns out there was no boost leaking anywhere. I ask if he could try to tune it so it doesn't die on me everytime, so he takes the car back and does some stuff on the laptop I assume, but still couldn't figure out why it was dying. It was a Saturday and no techs working that day, so we agree that I'd stay an extra few days and bring it back in on Monday so Earl could check it out.
As soon as I left, like literally in front of GRD, I got on it a little bit past half throttle, and I hear a loud BOOM, like a backfire, or the engine falling out from under my car.
I look in the rearview, and see nothing but massive amounts of James Bond smoke. But the car still had power, and I noticed no leaks. Now it smokes all the time, especially when under boost. Not just on decel like before. What do you guys think could've happened? Broken ring? Ringland? Cracked piston even?That same day I took the car to the shop to bleed the system. I figured with the random overheating the system had to have bubbles. While I had the system bleed, I also had the cooling system tested for carbon just to rule out a head gasket problem. The test results showed a slight hint of carbon, but not enough to think the head gasket had blown. As soon as I left the shop at about half throttle I blew a puff of whitish grey/blue smoke, but car still ran fine. Shortly after it start smoking on decel. The smoke only comes out of the drivers side tail pipe.
Here's where things get worse. The next day I drive to put gas (evening before hurricane Wilma) and the car starts to backfire on decel. It now sounds like **** at idle and there is a loud chatter sound coming from the drivers side of the motor from underneath the car. It sounds like my ATS clutch, but louder. I know it is not the clutch.
I am going to have a compression/leak down test done as well as pressure test the radiator, but because of this damn hurricane that has fuked up SFL nothing is open. I am hoping to get the car towed on Monday, as I do not want to turn it on anymore until I know WTF is wrong.
What could cause these symptoms?
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
Bri, I think I am qualified to answer this question. most of the 04 cars and beyond have widebands. You can determine this easily by looking at the sensor....5 wire is wideband.
I can tell you with absolute certainty, that you can tune and run these piggybacks with widebands. The ECU has a target, but its overidden via Injector Pulse Width increases, and higher than normal fuel pressure. It's been done all the time....on the Greddy, APS, and Vortech kits...no new news there.
most of the 04 cars and beyond have widebands. You can determine this easily by looking at the sensor....5 wire is wideband.I can tell you with absolute certainty, that you can tune and run these piggybacks with widebands. The ECU has a target, but its overidden via Injector Pulse Width increases, and higher than normal fuel pressure. It's been done all the time....on the Greddy, APS, and Vortech kits...no new news there.
not tryin to be a d1ck, but your motor is blowning up,. White smoke, BLUE smoke, thats oil being burned, overheating, chattering. Ide quit driving the car or you might through a rod through the side of it. Its breaking apart. Before my Z, i was a big honda guy, i built my turbo intgera to 475hp (this was like 7 years ago), but it took me 8 engines to get it right, back then, everything was new.(block sleeving, stand alones ect). Things got so bad trying to dial in my TEG, that when something didnt run right, the first thing i was doing was a compression test. (its alot easier on a honda)
Sucks to blow up, hardcore people do. Hopefully its a head gasket, and not the bottem end. Sucks pulling out a VQ
good luck
Sucks to blow up, hardcore people do. Hopefully its a head gasket, and not the bottem end. Sucks pulling out a VQ
good luck