APS ST or Turbonetics?
08-17-2005, 04:15 AM
#21
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If anything, posting that a kit reaches full boost at a certain RPM, when the graphs that have been posted including your own graph show otherwise, is spreading misinformation.
08-17-2005, 04:24 AM
#22
I now own a Turbonetics kit, but have not yet put it on. Im really kinda confused as to where full boost (8psi) hits on this damn kit. Ive seen a few dyno's with boost graphs showing around 4000rpm's. Then I read Turbonetics owners saying as low as 3000rpm's to right around 4000rpm's. In Sport Z Mag-where they used MIA's car iirc they said a little over 4000rpm's full boost was coming on. So which one is it people, I cant believe there is so much variation as to where boost hits in this kit. Im never under that when racing anyways
I will be running a Crawford plenum, CP, and a custom 3" single exhaust, I would hope I would be toward the lower end of the full boost spectrum I seem to be seeing with these kits....
Sorry for going off topic let me just say Ill take an average full boost for the T-netics kit is 3500rpm's copared to even the almost 3000 rpm's on the APS ST with the $900 exhaust. To me the numbers that mattered most were the price. There is a Vendor selling T-netics kits for as low as $4200 SHIPPED! vs what a little over $5000 for the APS? So IMO Id save $800, maybe more and put it towards guages whatever and wait another .75 second to hit full boost
Just my opinion. Also does anybody have a dyno and boost graph of an APS ST on an otherwise STOCK car? Id like to see where full boost hits on a stock car to compare directly that way to the T-netics.
I will be running a Crawford plenum, CP, and a custom 3" single exhaust, I would hope I would be toward the lower end of the full boost spectrum I seem to be seeing with these kits....Sorry for going off topic let me just say Ill take an average full boost for the T-netics kit is 3500rpm's copared to even the almost 3000 rpm's on the APS ST with the $900 exhaust. To me the numbers that mattered most were the price. There is a Vendor selling T-netics kits for as low as $4200 SHIPPED! vs what a little over $5000 for the APS? So IMO Id save $800, maybe more and put it towards guages whatever and wait another .75 second to hit full boost
Just my opinion. Also does anybody have a dyno and boost graph of an APS ST on an otherwise STOCK car? Id like to see where full boost hits on a stock car to compare directly that way to the T-netics.
Last edited by Alberto; 08-17-2005 at 04:36 AM.
08-17-2005, 04:25 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by 35ounces
My own chart? Since my install is not even complete and the car is not running that would be tough. LOL
I was referring to MIAPLAYA and his chart, since you have never posted about the spool up of the Turbonetics kit or posted a chart, I don't see how you thought that sentence could be referring to yourself... attention ***** maybe? j/k
Last edited by xxlbeerZ; 08-17-2005 at 04:44 AM.
08-17-2005, 04:55 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by Alberto
I now own a Turbonetics kit, but have not yet put it on. Im really kinda confused as to where full boost (8psi) hits on this damn kit. Ive seen a few dyno's with boost graphs showing around 4000rpm's. Then I read Turbonetics owners saying as low as 3000rpm's to right around 4000rpm's. In Sport Z Mag-where they used MIA's car iirc they said a little over 4000rpm's full boost was coming on. So which one is it people, I cant believe there is so much variation as to where boost hits in this kit. Im never under that when racing anyways I will be running a Crawford plenum, CP, and a custom 3" single exhaust, I would hope I would be toward the lower end of the full boost spectrum I seem to be seeing with these kits....
Sorry for going off topic let me just say Ill take an average full boost for the T-netics kit is 3500rpm's copared to even the almost 3000 rpm's on the APS ST with the $900 exhaust. To me the numbers that mattered most were the price. There is a Vendor selling T-netics kits for as low as $4200 SHIPPED! vs what a little over $5000 for the APS? So IMO Id save $800, maybe more and put it towards guages whatever and wait another .75 second to hit full boost Just my opinion. Also does anybody have a dyno and boost graph of an APS ST on an otherwise STOCK car? Id like to see where full boost hits on a stock car to compare directly that way to the T-netics.
I will be running a Crawford plenum, CP, and a custom 3" single exhaust, I would hope I would be toward the lower end of the full boost spectrum I seem to be seeing with these kits....Sorry for going off topic let me just say Ill take an average full boost for the T-netics kit is 3500rpm's copared to even the almost 3000 rpm's on the APS ST with the $900 exhaust. To me the numbers that mattered most were the price. There is a Vendor selling T-netics kits for as low as $4200 SHIPPED! vs what a little over $5000 for the APS? So IMO Id save $800, maybe more and put it towards guages whatever and wait another .75 second to hit full boost
Just my opinion. Also does anybody have a dyno and boost graph of an APS ST on an otherwise STOCK car? Id like to see where full boost hits on a stock car to compare directly that way to the T-netics.You are right, that in a drag race, it may be a limited factor. In normal spirited driving, or anything involving turns, the TN kit will be at a definite disadvantage though.
The Turbonetics kit does cost less, but it also has less and slightly inferior parts. I think both kits are fair priced for what you get.
I'll have a graph of a stock car with APS ST next month, but I will be upgrading my exhaust in short order. To me it's ridiculous to have a 3.5" downpipe and exit, but then run the tiny stock exhaust. As I said before, running a stock exhaust on any turbo'd NA car doesn't make much sense, I would replace the exhaust with either kit.
Last edited by xxlbeerZ; 08-17-2005 at 05:07 AM.
08-17-2005, 05:05 AM
#25
Originally Posted by xxlbeerZ
Alberto, yes that's what I meant, all of the graphical info I've seen does point to a much higher spool up than MIAPLAYA says. I think you're underestimating 1500rpm difference between cars/kits reaching peak boost in a car that redlines at 6800rpm. You're talking almost 1/4 of the entire RPM range!
You are right, that in a drag race, it may not be a huge factor. In normal spirited driving, or anything involving turns, the TN spool up will be at a definite disadvantage.
The Turbonetics kit does cost less, but it also has less and slightly inferior parts. I think both kits are fair priced for what you get.
I'll have a graph of a stock car with APS ST next month, but I will be running their exhaust in short order. To me it's silly to have a 3.5" downpipe and exit, but then run the little stock exhaust. As I said before, running a stock exhaust on any turbo'd NA car doesn't make much sense, I would replace the exhaust with either kit.
You are right, that in a drag race, it may not be a huge factor. In normal spirited driving, or anything involving turns, the TN spool up will be at a definite disadvantage.
The Turbonetics kit does cost less, but it also has less and slightly inferior parts. I think both kits are fair priced for what you get.
I'll have a graph of a stock car with APS ST next month, but I will be running their exhaust in short order. To me it's silly to have a 3.5" downpipe and exit, but then run the little stock exhaust. As I said before, running a stock exhaust on any turbo'd NA car doesn't make much sense, I would replace the exhaust with either kit.
08-17-2005, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Alberto
Your still comparing the 2700rpm full boost graph of the APS with their exhaust to a stock Turbonetics kit. Lets compare them stock for stock, or $hit Id like to see an APS exhaust modified to fit the Turbonetics and compare full boost then. Ive heard stock ST APS will hit full boost around 3200 is this true? If so take the average full boost claims for the Turbonetics of 3500rpm's (some say lower, some show higher) and now suddenly the 300rpm's difference is not that bad, and certainly not worth $800+ to me....
Both of the cars in the graphs I posted for the TN kit have aftermarket exhaust systems.
If you read my post, yes part of the price difference is in the turbo, but the APS kit also has more/superior parts which justifies the additional cost.
Anyway, I agree with Taurran, same day, same dyno with two well running, professionally installed kits from each company would be great. Though, outside of the results, I would probably still go APS for the extra margin of safety.
Last edited by xxlbeerZ; 08-17-2005 at 05:37 AM.
08-17-2005, 06:04 AM
#28
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Enough already. You can make it look like boost hits faster than it does on any load based dyno. set the car at 2800 rpm have it load up and then hit the throttle. It will spool very quickly this way. Much more than it would in first gear or any other gear under 40 mph. Ever see the graphs of the JWT turbo kit. That's what they did on theirs. The only way to compare these kits is on the same dyno, same condition and same boost. Quit defending your kits and get out and enjoy them.
08-17-2005, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by theking
Enough already. You can make it look like boost hits faster than it does on any load based dyno. set the car at 2800 rpm have it load up and then hit the throttle. It will spool very quickly this way. Much more than it would in first gear or any other gear under 40 mph. Ever see the graphs of the JWT turbo kit. That's what they did on theirs. The only way to compare these kits is on the same dyno, same condition and same boost. Quit defending your kits and get out and enjoy them.
08-17-2005, 06:19 AM
#30
Originally Posted by xxlbeerZ
Both of the cars in the graphs I posted for the TN kit have aftermarket exhaust systems.
If you read my post, yes part of the price difference is in the turbo, but the APS kit also has more/superior parts which justifies the additional cost.
If you read my post, yes part of the price difference is in the turbo, but the APS kit also has more/superior parts which justifies the additional cost.
08-17-2005, 06:51 AM
#32
Originally Posted by tig488
i probably would have bought the TN kit if i didnt get the free plenum,
4800 for TN + ~500 for a plenum vs
5500 for APS and free plenum,
pretty much evens out.
both kits have good and bad points, read and decide.
4800 for TN + ~500 for a plenum vs
5500 for APS and free plenum,
pretty much evens out.
both kits have good and bad points, read and decide.
08-17-2005, 07:48 AM
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hey beer,
why don't you save the bandwidth, and the whining and just buy the APS. it sounds like your mind is made up, and you came on this thread to start poop.
i don't think turbonetics will be going out of business if you pass on them.
why don't you save the bandwidth, and the whining and just buy the APS. it sounds like your mind is made up, and you came on this thread to start poop.
i don't think turbonetics will be going out of business if you pass on them.
08-17-2005, 07:49 AM
#34
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Originally Posted by James@APS
STFU Tuning, the Unichip tuning software is available to any professional tuning shop (you don't have to have a pretty shop) with a load based engine or chassis dyno which is really a pre-requisate for tuning/mapping with stand alone or interceptor style engine management systems. 
08-17-2005, 08:27 AM
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Well that escaltedly quicky, I mean that REALLY got out of hand....hey xxlbeer since you haven't even installed your kit why don't you do so and get back to us. Since the last person who did is getting full boost on their APS kit at 3750 not 2700 as you claim....And I have yet to see a dyno NOT produced by APS....
08-17-2005, 08:55 AM
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Yeah ... you almost killed xxl with a trident.
I've been meaning to talk to you about that ...
Fact is, and anyone of the 20+ people here in SoCal can back this up, the Turbonetics kit (on MIA's car) hit full boost around 3200-3400 rpm. I have seen it probably 50 times now. I look forward to seeing an APS ST installed, and as soon as a local has one I will definitely ****** a ride and some "shaky videos" for you.
PS - any of our forum sponsors can get you a TN kit for under $4500 ... without the group buy the APS is $5000+ and tuning costs
I've been meaning to talk to you about that ...
Fact is, and anyone of the 20+ people here in SoCal can back this up, the Turbonetics kit (on MIA's car) hit full boost around 3200-3400 rpm. I have seen it probably 50 times now. I look forward to seeing an APS ST installed, and as soon as a local has one I will definitely ****** a ride and some "shaky videos" for you.
PS - any of our forum sponsors can get you a TN kit for under $4500 ... without the group buy the APS is $5000+ and tuning costs
08-17-2005, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by JimRHIT
Yeah ... you almost killed xxl with a trident.
I've been meaning to talk to you about that ...
Fact is, and anyone of the 20+ people here in SoCal can back this up, the Turbonetics kit (on MIA's car) hit full boost around 3200-3400 rpm. I have seen it probably 50 times now. I look forward to seeing an APS ST installed, and as soon as a local has one I will definitely ****** a ride and some "shaky videos" for you.
PS - any of our forum sponsors can get you a TN kit for under $4500 ... without the group buy the APS is $5000+ and tuning costs
I've been meaning to talk to you about that ...
Fact is, and anyone of the 20+ people here in SoCal can back this up, the Turbonetics kit (on MIA's car) hit full boost around 3200-3400 rpm. I have seen it probably 50 times now. I look forward to seeing an APS ST installed, and as soon as a local has one I will definitely ****** a ride and some "shaky videos" for you.
PS - any of our forum sponsors can get you a TN kit for under $4500 ... without the group buy the APS is $5000+ and tuning costs
When I get my APS turbo kit installed and tuned, I will post my graph as well regardless of the results. I personally do not expect full boost at 2700rpms, more around 3100-3200. However, I believe my kit will have much more boost down low, and build peak boost much sooner and smoother than the two graphs that are posted for the Turbonetics kit.
If these graphs are not accurate (remember, one is MIAPLAYA's himself), then hopefully somebody will post some additional boost graphs as more APS results are brought forth. However, if those additional graphs still show the Turbonetics kit at 2-4 psi at 3000rpm and full boost at 4250-4500rpm like these do, I would be disappointed. With those kind of numbers, might as well save up for a TT kit.
08-17-2005, 09:43 AM
#38
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Originally Posted by xxlbeerZ
Look at the two boost graphs that were posted show full boost up over 4250rpm, are you arguing with facts? Make a video of the cars making a better boost graph. I would like to see this, right now I'm just going with the graphical information that's available and was posted by the company reps.
When I get my APS turbo kit installed and tuned, I will post my graph as well regardless of the results. I personally do not expect full boost at 2700rpms, more around 3100-3200. However, I believe my kit will have much more boost down low, and build peak boost much sooner and smoother than the two graphs that are posted for the Turbonetics kit.
If these graphs are not accurate (remember, one is MIAPLAYA's himself), then hopefully somebody will post some additional boost graphs as more APS results are brought forth. However, if those additional graphs still show the Turbonetics kit at 2-4 psi at 3000rpm and full boost at 4250-4500rpm like these do, I would be disappointed. With those kind of numbers, might as well save up for a TT kit.
When I get my APS turbo kit installed and tuned, I will post my graph as well regardless of the results. I personally do not expect full boost at 2700rpms, more around 3100-3200. However, I believe my kit will have much more boost down low, and build peak boost much sooner and smoother than the two graphs that are posted for the Turbonetics kit.
If these graphs are not accurate (remember, one is MIAPLAYA's himself), then hopefully somebody will post some additional boost graphs as more APS results are brought forth. However, if those additional graphs still show the Turbonetics kit at 2-4 psi at 3000rpm and full boost at 4250-4500rpm like these do, I would be disappointed. With those kind of numbers, might as well save up for a TT kit.
Again how bout you open your mouth when you actually HAVE a turbo kit installed. I can't wait to see you hitting full boost at 3750 and having your boost drop to 5.5 at redline. And I guess that 20+ people who have ridden in my car including the owner of Speed Force aren't enough proof of where my car hits full boost. Maybe the 10 owners aren't enough proof either so I guess nothing will be for you...Keep living in APS's dream world where you hit full boost at 2700 and hold it to redline..even though the APS owners arent getting that. The ones who HAVE installed their kit.
08-17-2005, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by xxlbeerZ
Look at the two boost graphs that were posted show full boost up over 4250rpm, are you arguing with facts? Make a video of the cars making a better boost graph. I would like to see this, right now I'm just going with the graphical information that's available and was posted by the company reps.
When I get my APS turbo kit installed and tuned, I will post my graph as well regardless of the results. I personally do not expect full boost at 2700rpms, more around 3100-3200. However, I believe my kit will have much more boost down low, and build peak boost much sooner and smoother than the two graphs that are posted for the Turbonetics kit.
If these graphs are not accurate (remember, one is MIAPLAYA's himself), then hopefully somebody will post some additional boost graphs as more APS results are brought forth. However, if those additional graphs still show the Turbonetics kit at 2-4 psi at 3000rpm and full boost at 4250-4500rpm like these do, I would be disappointed. With those kind of numbers, might as well save up for a TT kit.
When I get my APS turbo kit installed and tuned, I will post my graph as well regardless of the results. I personally do not expect full boost at 2700rpms, more around 3100-3200. However, I believe my kit will have much more boost down low, and build peak boost much sooner and smoother than the two graphs that are posted for the Turbonetics kit.
If these graphs are not accurate (remember, one is MIAPLAYA's himself), then hopefully somebody will post some additional boost graphs as more APS results are brought forth. However, if those additional graphs still show the Turbonetics kit at 2-4 psi at 3000rpm and full boost at 4250-4500rpm like these do, I would be disappointed. With those kind of numbers, might as well save up for a TT kit.
) I still hit 8psi before 4k rpms. I'll be glad to test this theory once I get my stock manifolds put back in (2 weeks). I should be hitting boost much quicker then.
08-17-2005, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by taurran
Yeah, I'll argue with the graphs. With my headers installed ( ) I still hit 8psi before 4k rpms. I'll be glad to test this theory once I get my stock manifolds put back in (2 weeks). I should be hitting boost much quicker then.
) I still hit 8psi before 4k rpms. I'll be glad to test this theory once I get my stock manifolds put back in (2 weeks). I should be hitting boost much quicker then.Just post a graph. The two I have say otherwise.