Yep, should be interesting.

Time to save up for the turbo kit....

 

Turbos are ultimately engine-load driven. An engine load is what produces the exhaust gas that spins the turbo exhaust wheel. No engine load, no exhaust gas, no turning wheel.

When the engine is revved and the clutch is not engage, then next to no engine load is applied.

Michael.

 

your sc was at full boost at 2500 rpm, highly unlikely dude, the sc cannot make full boost till maximum rpm, it is completely reliant on rpm, and if it was (not possible) at full boost at 2500 it would be way over boosting at 6000 rpm cooking your intake air as it would be running so far out of its efficienncy range, what you should be saying is your tourque peak was at 2500 rpm, cmon a sc is designed to make max boost at maximum rpm.

 

Turbo lag has nothing to do with how much power you ave at low rpm. All mattered is the time starting from your foot press down till extra torque you demand appears at wheel. Reality is turbo car often behave like "too much power and too late". For instance at middle of curve, you decided you want to power slide out a little. So you press gas and expected rear wheel start to slide out. Well, on turbo cars. An often mistake is to press the gas pedal a little too far since power was delay from lag, so you compensate it by a little more pedal. And when power shows up, there are too much power than you needed and you will slide too much. There are lots articles talk about how to drive a turbo car. But the real solution was to get a AWD system which isn't so senstive.
I know turbo cars enter autoX, but for the same amount of power, NA car runs better. You need to look at result, too.

 

It's not how strong an engine is. You will need to lower compression to boost high. With over 10:1 compression you can only run 7psi. How can you get 500hp? Don't tell me 200shot NOS.

 

the reasons that the Z car went out of production in the first place (warranty and maintenance issues from drivers who didn't know how to handle a twin-turbo set-up)

Sure... Do you know how easy it is to turn up the boost and blow your motor unlike a supercharger? Your right...

drivers who didn't know how to handle a twin-turbo set-up

People don't know how to handle forced induction, I feel the dealer should educate them or at least make sure they fully understand that any type of forced induction requires some teaching...

your sc was at full boost at 2500 rpm, highly unlikely dude, the sc cannot make full boost till maximum rpm

Are you saying standalone systems and gauges don't work? I have the dyno graph and datalog of the run showing 2,500 RPM 8psi of boost so please don't tell me this isn't true because it was logged. Remember, its a roots supercharger and like any roots supercharger it has boost on tap. A lot of jackson owners know this because we suffered from a thing called "tip end detonation" Meaning we reach 8psi of boost really quick without enough fuel to compensate, thats one reason why I had to by a stand alone in the first place. Like I said, if you never had a supercharger you wouldn't know..

at full boost at 2500 it would be way over boosting at 6000 rpm cooking your intake air as it would be running so far out of its efficienncy range

Did you bother reading my previous post about how I hated this thing because it was a damn HEATER! Reaching levels of over 180 degrees! Even when I took the Jackson racing supercharger off and went N/A for a while the car only went a max of 120 N/A FORM!

what you should be saying is your tourque peak was at 2500 rpm, cmon a sc is designed to make max boost at maximum rpm.

Um.. I don't know where your getting your false information from but anyone knows that a "Roots" supercharger DOES NOT HAVE TOP END POWER! I have dyno graphs to prove your theory and show you how My Jackson just died after 7,500 RPM unlike my Turbo that just wanted to keep going.. but I wouldn't go any further than 8,500 because my stock valvetrain would fall apart.


Turbo lag has nothing to do with how much power you ave at low rpm. All mattered is the time starting from your foot press down till extra torque you demand appears at wheel. Reality is turbo car often behave like "too much power and too late". For instance at middle of curve, you decided you want to power slide out a little. So you press gas and expected rear wheel start to slide out. Well, on turbo cars. An often mistake is to press the gas pedal a little too far since power was delay from lag, so you compensate it by a little more pedal. And when power shows up, there are too much power than you needed and you will slide too much. There are lots articles talk about how to drive a turbo car. But the real solution was to get a AWD system which isn't so senstive.
I know turbo cars enter autoX, but for the same amount of power, NA car runs better. You need to look at result, too.

I can tell you have never driven a turbocharged vehicle... What your stating here is not true, and I still have friends with the same setup as mine and welcome anyone to drive the car and show you that at any given time you step on the pedal the car will move. Like we have discussed before, their are turbos that are streetable not BIG HUGE TURBOS that wont spool until 6,500RPM. The way you describe a turbo would be so unsafe, step on gas let off because you have to wait for the turbo to spool because it might just send you flying with too much power... Thats ridiculous!

 

that is incorrect. There are many RSX-Ser's out there that are boosting perfectly fine up to 10 psi with remarkable CR of 11:1.

 

You are so wrong! Sure.. with compression you wont be able to boost as much but it doesn't mean you are limited. For example If you have 10:1 "FORGED" pistons you can boost on a tuned motor about 12-15PSI RELIABLE! Let just say it makes 400whp ok.. these are not based on any car but just numbers. Not if you had a compression ration of 9:1 it would take you about 18-22 PSI to make as much power as the 10:1 compression motor. WHY? because less compresion. Another thing is lower compression always seems to be more lag.. as higher compression more peepier.. People that build motors or have knowledge of this know what im talking about. The reason why in the past people choose to go with lower compression was because it gave them room for mistakes (detonation) while tunning or OVERBOOSTING.. With higher compression its a lot more delicate because a little mistake can cause you your motor, but its not to say that it can handle. Again many HONDA motors I have helped built have all been stock compression but with forged pistons since honda's rings are the weakest link. Anyhow.. It all goes down to TUNING.

 

I preferred being my own turbo timer and I didn't mind at all. Technology is not the answer to all things and I didn't want aftermarket help of any kind. I've mellowed since then.

 

Exactly my point! If the stock internals are strong and the motor is tuned correctly, their shouldn't be a problem boosting at a resonable level. Again, my Honda I boosted 12PSI Stock bottom end for one year straight... and also shot nitrous. It was perfectly tuned with a wideband to get a perfect A/F ratio at 91octane.

 

man we have built many many roots sc'd chevy's, how then does a sc make full boost at 2500 rpm, then waht boost does it make at 7000 rpm where does all the extra pressure go ????? a sc works off rpm the higher the rpm the higher the boost period,

 

I preferred being my own turbo timer and I didn't mind at all

Than why were you complaining in your first statement? You said, lag was one problem "AND" that you had to sit and wait.. Trying to make a downfall for going turbo because of the wait. That's why I said they make turbo timers so it won't be any inconvinience for the end "turbo" user.

Technology is not the answer to all things and I didn't want aftermarket help of any kind. I've mellowed since then.

It may not be the anwser to all things but it sure can help (Saving people's more valuable time) I.E. Garage door opener, Power Steering, Cruise Control, you get my point. When I had my turbo in my car I had a turbo timer because I didn't feel the need to stay in my car for 3+ minutes for my car to cool down... But again, I wouldn't call it help... I would say more convinience...


man we have built many many roots sc'd chevy's, how then does a sc make full boost at 2500 rpm, then waht boost does it make at 7000 rpm where does all the extra pressure go ????? a sc works off rpm the higher the rpm the higher the boost period

Once I get my laptop back I will post my datalog.. But in the mean time here is my friends DYNOGRAPH that had a Jackson with valvetrain work and the whole deal to rev as high as possible. He ditched the Jackson and went with greddy also.


Just because the car reaches full boost doesn't mean its going to die?? The datalog (COMPUTER) and the Autometer gauge show 8PSI of boost at under 3K RPM Are you saying they are inaccurate? When you can clearly see the Dyno graph max torque at under 3K... Once your at boost you can still get horsepower because your going through your whole RPM powerband. So your saying your supercharger doesnt make Max boost until it max (redline)? So your saying you have Lag? Remember... its belt driven by the alternator so the blades are always moving even at idle... When I reached full boost on my Civic SI (once I went turbo) when boostin 10PSI it didn't make it until like 5K.. THat doesnt mean its going to die... It just going to stay at max 10 pressure in the manifold to be making power thorughout the whole powerband...

 

http://www.turbomaxima.com

This is a new site and only the FAQ section is complete. Anyhow there's a dyno comparing turbo vs supercharger for the 3.0L VQ in the FAQ section. A turbo @4psi makes comparable hp with a supercharger running @ 10psi. The supercharger had a higher peak hp the turbo @4psi, but the turbo has more area under the curve.

There's also more turbo/supercharger info at maxima.org. Check the turbo/supercharger section, the dyno section or the search function for more #'s.

As to the Stillen supercharger kit, I wouldn't want to be the first one to get it. To this day there are still supercharger kits sent to maxima owners with missing parts and mounting brackets that don't fit. Belt shredding is not uncommon and the supercharger itself is not the model of reliability by NO means. There are horror stories about SC maxima owners trying to get blowers repaired under warranty. I would go with NISMO any day of the week over Stillen for a supercharger.

 

as i said you reached peak tourque at 3000 rpm, does not mean you are at peak boost pressure.

 

They can run 10psi on what? 91 pump gas here in CA? I don't think so. Why not run methane and run 20psi?

Anyone come out a bolt on turbo kit will set at about 7psi. And if you want to go beyond that, you are on your own risk.
Paper turbo is sooooo easy untill you start really working on it . Just because some RS-X can run 10psi doesn't mean you can do that too. A 500hp engine is a lot hotter than those in RSX. I still say you need to lower comp.

 

There are drawbacks to a supercharger. First, a decent well designed supercharger is more expensive than the largest and most powerful turbocharger sold for street cars. Second, because a supercharger runs off of a belt, it takes horsepower away from the motor to operate just like the air conditioning compressor. In high performance situations, this can be anywhere from 25 or 50 horsepower lost up to losing 200+ horsepower JUST to spin the supercharger. Third, a supercharger gradually increases the PSI of boost in the cylinders with increased rpms. You can only get max boost at the redline. With a turbo, the turbo spools and the wastegate opens up once the peak desired boost is reached (on street cars this is usually around half way to the red line or lower.) Fourth and finally, a supercharger generally can not produce boost pressure as efficiently as turbocharger can.



this is from a turbo supercharger info page read it and weep sc fans

 

as i said you reached peak tourque at 3000 rpm, does not mean you are at peak boost pressure.

uh.... Again... the meters and everything monitoring my manifold pressure read 8PSI of manifold pressure at under 3K RPM. Are you saying I will get more PSI at 6K? And even more at 8K? Because if that was the case than I must be boosting over 13PSI because the computer and electronics read 8PSI (PRESSURE) at under 3K but your saying more pressure at higher RPM's so that means at 8K RPMs I must be overboosting?

They can run 10psi on what? 91 pump gas here in CA? I don't think so. Why not run methane and run 20psi?

Um sir, I live here in California and will gladly show you (call people that we have built engines for) cars with compression 10:1 running 10 PSI of boost on 91 pump gas daily drivers and 15PSI on 100octane.

Anyone come out a bolt on turbo kit will set at about 7psi. Of course... It has to be set at a resonable level where the manufacture can protect themselves and not have any problems.... But as a manufacture they are not going to be living on the edge... 7PSI is very SAFE.. 9-11PSI is in the yellow zone and 12-15PSI is in the RED ZONE! (Based on stock internals and their weakness again, depending "how strong the internals are")

RS-X can run 10psi doesn't mean you can do that too. A 500hp engine is a lot hotter than those in RSX. I still say you need to lower comp.

I can see your knowledge is poor about tunning. Any engine builder/tuner will tell you that lowering compression will just allow you to boost more but doesn't mean you can't achieve your target. I challenge you and anyone.

If we build the same car. You use 9:1 compression I use 10:1 compression. I will have higher horsepower at a lower Boost level than that of the 9:1. it all comes down to the strenght of the internals.. How is 9:1 any better than 10:1 using same manufacture of pistons.... Tell that to any manufacuture and they will think your a MORON. So your telling me that 10:1 pistons are weak? Is that why you can't boost..? NO! Again, if we build the same car and say I boost 10Psi and make 300WHP you would have to boost about 15PSI to make the same power as mine.. But if I start going any further than I could be looking for trouble just like if you start going further than 15psi you will also be looking for trouble. get my point? Just wait till an actual TURBO charger from a respectable company comes out and I will prove you wrong... I am so waiting for AEM to come out with their standalone unit becasue that is the best investment in my opinion someone can have. After that I will boost over 10PSI on this Z with no problem.. Nissan motors are excellent and you will soon see....

 

Ok, I decided to do this to help people understand compression. (bare with me im not the best artist)



Ok, in the left we have a piston with 9:1 compression and on the right we have 10:1 they are both boosting 10PSI and the one on the left(lower comp) is making 300whp and the right is making 330whp. Why? see where I marked (room to play with) well that has to be filled up with air as opposed to the one on the right which is getting crammed together making it more combustible =MORE POWER! Now the reason why in the past people choose to go with lower compression pistons is because it gives them that room to play with for mistakes... (bad gas, detonation, bad tunning etc..) Here is a prime example of customers we get all the time. We have had customers that blow their motor in their stock internals and go with a lower compression. Than when they get their car back they tell us.. "Why does my car feel like it lags down low, not as peppy as it was before?" Well, that's because before with the higher compression it didn't need to fill that gap (room to play) in between like it does now... Now we have people saying, well can't I blow my motor with higher compression? Sure you can, as easy as you can to blow your motor with lower compression. This is were people don't get. The car is only as strong as its weakest link. For example. If we have a 10:1 piston and we know for a fact that it will crack at 15PSI of boost. And then we have a 9:1 piston that we know will crack at 22psi of boost. giving this data we do the following analysis...

We boost 14PSI (10:1) almost maxing out the life of the piston on car #1 making 380whp

and than we boost 21PSI (9:1) on car #2 also maximizing the life of the piston and make the same horsepower numbers... We have seen this happen... And again, for those who build motors and tune will vouch for this. Their is ups and downs for higher and lower compressions. But again, it all narrows down to how much (STRONG) the internals are and the tunning...

 

anyone who intersted i reading professional info on sc's vs turbo do a search on the web and see, i did, and a sc requires maximum rpm to make maximum boost, this info is on any website that has any info on sc's, i did not fabricate this info this is real stuff no matter what one Honda guys boost gauge read, the hard fact are there written even by SC manufacturers themselves, i can go and find 10 more direct quates about sc's and they will state the same thing over and over, the sc is completely dependent on rpm, a turbo is not. THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE, please someone else track down this info to clear up this argument.