I see alot of people have gone the forced induction route and easily have spent well over $7 grand to get their setup working right. The observation I have made is that there are lots of car that are pushing 400whp but their 1/4 times are still in the 13 second range.

Unlike EVO's and STI's when you push 400whp you are in the high 11's. I am a big fan of 350Z, don't get me wrong. But I wish that adding another 120+whp would yield some better numbers. Even the issue of Speed Magazing showed that Vortech and Stillen s/c'ed cars are in the 13second range. The JWT twin's or the HKS didn't do overly impressine 1/4 times. The supercharged versions posted better 1/4 mile times. Granted, traction was an issue and the Turbo'ed versions made more power.

What would be the secret to making power and put the 350Z in the range where it could eat the 1/4 mile in less than 12 seconds yet not eat the credit card in return. Fast 0-60 times and impressive 1/4 times. Granted a AWD car doesn't have to deal with traction issues like RWD card do.

What is the formula for speed! Even those people in the 600whp club...what kind of 1/4 mile times are you getting AND at what cost to you?


Power is nothing without control!!

 

Price to have good 1/4 times: A few hours each day practicing how to handle the power.

From what i've heard, AWD cars are harder to launch properly, so it does not make sense that they would get better traction. Maybe the mid-top end is slightly better than the 350Z.

N/A 350Zs with minor bolt-ons and slicks can achieve high 12s fairly easily. It is all about skill, 90% driver and 10% car. Another reason is just probability, eventually, you'll start seeing more and more 12 second 380 RWHP 350Zs with stock tires. You are now seeing what I predicted a while back about 400-450 RWHP being possible without upgrading internals, more and more have ended up around those numbers lately (safely, I might add).

 

ITs all about driving my friend, with that much RWHP its hard to contol the car.. you can't compare a all whell drive to a rear wheel drive car. A F/I 350z is very hard to control... various suspension work needed. ITs a long process!

 

What "minor' bolt on's? <---That's a Million dollar question!!
Does the safely making power deal with the fuel system upgrades?

BTW on your car.

My situation is that my Z is 2 payments away from being paid off. I want to increase power but don't want to go into debit doing it. Sure the stock power was great on day 1 of ownership but, just like with a girlfriend, you always want more!!! Bigger power is the same as Bigger *****!!

 

racing tires...


I've been saying what you're saying for awhile and usually people either blow it off or laugh at me or get pissed at me for talking about it. I don't think the Z is all that great for having a million hp if it can't use it to make the car actually go faster. People will blow it off anyway and just say "add more power to go faster" without realizing the car starts having diminishing returns at a certain power level

That magazine seemed a little slow with it's 1/4 mile times.
People seem to be able to barely break into the 11's - as in 11.95 sec with street tires. As soon as they put on race tires, they go faster, but still have to shift a million times instead of just a couple times

The Z needs like a 2.6 final drive. There might be some neat traction control devices in the works to control boost, but if you think about it, that's great and all and enables you to basiclaly floor the gas pedal and it'll manage power for youl. But the thing is you're still using mostly the gearing for your power in that situation. You want power and gearing to compliment each other. You want them to work so you can floor the gas and have 100% traction - no more, no less. That's ideal.

If you have a traction boost controller, you're basically defeating the million hp that you spent all your money on since it will just cut power until you do get traction. The gearing is too aggressive (and a host of other things, but IMO the strong gearing is big power's worst enemy in the fight to make your wide street tires grip)

I would LOVE to add FI to my car if I thought it was worthwhile. I've already added a lot of NA mods to my car and can probably run lo 13's or maybe high 12's after the next phase of stuff I put on. If the fastest I can expect to get with FI on street tires is 11.95 or barely faster, I mean, is the journey to FI REALLY worth it for that extra 1 sec faster in the 1/4 while sacrificing some handling, the car's potential reliability, and my money? IMO....it really isn't. And no I'm not going to drive around in drag radials all the time on the street for a MILLION reasons.

 

Cams (not so much a bolt-on), intake, exhaust, TB, plenum, test pipes (non-resonated), slicks. That should put you into mid to high 12's.

As far as safely making power, it deals with a few things. Mainly, it deals with tuning and having the necessary parts.

 

Hmm...I've seen opposite...

I see almost all FI guys hitting high 12's and lower. That's the majority though. Remember getting all that power to the ground on street tires takes some skills. Especially with NO 4wd?? 11's with sticky street tires and 400whp can be pulled off. IMO

 

Isn't the 1/4 mile times limited by the engine being in the front? Do the mid engine cars have an advantage here? I don't really know what I'm talking about here but dragsters seem to all have their engines in the back.

 

Well I agree with the statement on Boost control and traction. That's why for some strange reason S/C set-up appeals to me. There is no waiting for boost to spool up unless you use a TT set-up with smaller turbo's.

Speed magazine reported these times...
JWT Twin Turbo 0-60 5.4 sec, 1/4 mile 13.5@107.1 358whp/365tq
Greddy Twin Turbo 0-60 5.0 sec, 1/4 mile 13.4@110.4 411whp/372tq
Stillen s/c 0-60 4.9 sec, 1/4 mile 13.5@108.2 320whp/306tq
Vortech s/c 0-60 4.9 sec 1/4 mile 13.0@110.5 359whp/317tq
Stock 0-60 5.5 sec 1/4 mile 14.2@100.9 236whp/243tq

All of these car were on stock unmodified motors. The Greddy did have a Profec boost controler. None of these cars had anything overly wild done to the motor other than exhaust.

Now for ***** and giggles...they had the 4 cars run a road course.
Final times were...
Stock 350Z 1:32.16
Greddy 1:31.95
Stillen 1:29.46
Vortech 1:29.11
JWT 1:29.09

Now for the kicker. They also ran a Performance Nissan 350Z with a Nismo Exhaust, 8lb Tilton flywheel & clutch package and a 3.917 rear end. That Z finished the course in..
1:28.10!!! Almost a full second faster than the JWT Twin Turbo.

My idea would be to have the Vortech set-up with the 3.917 rear. But you would have to shift more.

http://www.f-body.org/gears/

Stock 3.538 Rear:1-2 Shift at 40 2-3 shift at 66
3.917 Rear:1-2 Shift at 39 2-3 shift at 59

This is with 275/40-18's

But from what I hear...400whp is the max you would want to run with a 3.917.

Price?
JWT MSRP $6,895
Greddy MSRP $6,495 plus $1,695 for the intercooler
Vortech... Performance Nissan...$4,925
Stillen...Performance Nissan...$3,790

But there is the Turbonetics ST...MSRP$ 5,595 Performance Nissan $5,095....355whp/354tq (Summer 05 issue of Sport Z)

I wish they would have reported some 0-60 and 1/4 mile times in that Issue of Sport Z..... blah blah blah...insurance reasons....

Maybe a Turbonetics ST with a 3.917?

Thoughts?

 

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHA.... those are the worst numbers i have ever seen... GOD I HATE those magazine drivers, they cant drive worth ****! A two year old kid can get a better time than those drivers!

 

There is so much misinformation in this thread it's honestly riduclious.

 

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Yes. Having more weight in the back (mid engine) puts more weight on the tires and usually yields better traction.

 

To settle this debate, just get 5-10 350Zs...400, 450, 500, 550, 600, 700, etc. RWHP and let you drive them at the track. That will settle what times everyone should be getting if they practiced.

 

Quaife LSD or ATS LSD, Turbonetics ST Kit, MT slicks, ATS twin-disc carbon clutch w/flywheel, and remove spare tire and jack = consistent mid/high 11s - low 12s. I'm serious, I think this is all you would need.

Let me know when you are ready to get any of these parts.

 

yeah with slicks, sure, people are already doing 11.5's and even 11.3's

but until I see someone do it on street tires and pull it off, I'm going to remain skeptical and stand by my opinion. I'm going to wait for a lower final drive to come out and people with 500whp or more to try it before I throw some money at FI with this car. The 3.36 is barely a change over 3.53. Charles from CJM said it helped him a little in the 1/4 and admits to not being the greatest 1/4 driver. IMO 500whp cars should still let you floor the gas pedal on street tires and not have them spin out from under you all the way until 90 mph. You should be able to floor it and have traction ideally


maybe off topic, but no one really makes a drag racing suspension for the Z that I've found. Stock suspension seems to be about the best you can do without going custom

isn't there a reason the pro drag cars have those enormous tires in the back? If the car becomes crazy hard to drive and I'm constantly trying to learn how to drive with the car, IMO the car isn't a well designed car. I know some people love challenges though.

For example, there was a heavily modded C3 corvette that was auto (yeah yeah) and ANYONE that got in it could run 10's. Just get it, foot on brake, rev to 3000, let out brake. 10.9 and it wasn't all that hard. It had 3 or 4 gears total and a good balance of parts. IMO even the 3.36 final drive for the Z isn't enough to do crap. You need a final drive that flat out eliminates another shift and lets you floor the gas without getting spin out. Drag radials or slicks should only be needed to launch extra hard, not to put down the power. You can use them to put down the power though if you're beyond the car's traction limits which aren't very high with the Z

 

I disagree-on the various suspension pieces needed to launch well. I can honestly say with my draggin gexperience that my car stock launched much better than what it does now on stiff JIC coilovers-it had more weight transfer before, and it simply hooked better. I believe for dragging a set of slicks and stock suspenion is the way to go. Im willing to give up .1 or .2 in the 60ft on slicks to have a car that looks much better and handles like its on rails. Ask raptorbh12 - NA he has pulled a questionable 1.5 60ft and a few 1.7's on stock suspension, just a set of slicks.

To the thread starter, TRACTION is a huge issue, if you have to ask why most FI Z's run 13's still compared to 11's or 12's for Evo's or STI's with the same power levels then that tells me you dont really have much experience trying to lay down power in a RWD car on street tires, or track experience. It is VERY difficult, and especially FI where a 1-2, 2-3 and for some a 3-4 shift can cause wheel spin which = added time down the 1/4. What I judge is trap speeds. Obviously if an Evo runs 12.8 @ 105 compared to a Z that runs 13.1 @ 114, you can see by the trap speed the Z is very traction limited, on the street from a roll that Z would demolish that Evo. With a set of DR's or slicks that can also be the outcome from a dig....


Edit-BTW Brian that quote in your sig is great

 

Well coilovers mean softer suspension.. I did't say coil overs... new rear axles arms and springs.. coilovers are for handling not meant for the pressure substaned from drag racing!