Oil cooler choices - help me please.
11-08-2005, 05:26 PM
#41
Actually, I need to know the inside diameter of the hose that you have there so I can replace it with a different hose to fit the oil cooler. If you have that hose, Miaplaya, then I bet you have the hose you took off. I measured mine by quickly removing and using a ruler, and I thought I measured 1 1/2" (approx. 38.1mm). Ether pointed out a post that stated the ID was 34mm. That is a 4mm difference. Would you mind measuring the ID of the hose you took off? As a check for accuracy. Thank you.
11-08-2005, 05:32 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by gringott
Actually, I need to know the inside diameter of the hose that you have there so I can replace it with a different hose to fit the oil cooler. If you have that hose, Miaplaya, then I bet you have the hose you took off. I measured mine by quickly removing and using a ruler, and I thought I measured 1 1/2" (approx. 38.1mm). Ether pointed out a post that stated the ID was 34mm. That is a 4mm difference. Would you mind measuring the ID of the hose you took off? As a check for accuracy. Thank you.
11-08-2005, 05:34 PM
#43
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i did try a 38mm adapter before getting the 34mm.. maybe something in between, but the 38 definately did not fit, spent a good time trying to sterch it over the adpater fitting
Last edited by ether; 11-08-2005 at 05:37 PM.
11-08-2005, 05:42 PM
#44
The laminar oil cooler is best used for cooling by diverting the main coolant line to run through the cooler. The cooler is available with 1.50" end fittings, which would work if our upper hose is 38mm. If our hose is 34mm, then there is a problem, and a reducer or differnet end fitting must be used. Various end caps are available for the laminar oil cooler, push on type: 18mm (.70"), 28mm (1.10"), 32mm (1.25"), 38mm (1.50"), or JIC 16 (-16AN) JIC 24 (-24AN) .
No 34mm.
As for your other question, what will the effect be of reducing the size of the upper radiator return hose? For example, if I went with the JIC 16 thread on?
No 34mm.
As for your other question, what will the effect be of reducing the size of the upper radiator return hose? For example, if I went with the JIC 16 thread on?
11-08-2005, 05:45 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by gringott
The laminar oil cooler is best used for cooling by diverting the main coolant line to run through the cooler. The cooler is available with 1.50" end fittings, which would work if our upper hose is 38mm. If our hose is 34mm, then there is a problem, and a reducer or differnet end fitting must be used. Various end caps are available for the laminar oil cooler, push on type: 18mm (.70"), 28mm (1.10"), 32mm (1.25"), 38mm (1.50"), or JIC 16 (-16AN) JIC 24 (-24AN) .
No 34mm.
As for your other question, what will the effect be of reducing the size of the upper radiator return hose? For example, if I went with the JIC 16 thread on?
No 34mm.
As for your other question, what will the effect be of reducing the size of the upper radiator return hose? For example, if I went with the JIC 16 thread on?
11-08-2005, 05:50 PM
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isn't the upper radiator hose the return line into the motor.. the lower LH hose is where the radiator is fed (thats the one that has the thermo) ... so an inline oil cooler should be fed by the upper radiator line.. i looked into the same water-oil cooler before going with a diff solution
11-08-2005, 05:50 PM
#47
Originally Posted by ether
i did try a 38mm adapter before getting the 34mm.. maybe something in between, but the 38 definately did not fit, spent a good time trying to sterch it over the adpater fitting
For example, push on hose to AN adapters come in 1", 1.25". 1.50", 1.75" push on sizes at Summit.
11-08-2005, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ether
isn't the upper radiator hose the return line into the motor.. the lower LH hose is where the radiator is fed (thats the one that has the thermo) ... so an inline oil cooler should be fed by the upper radiator line.. i looked into the same water-oil cooler before going with a diff solution
11-08-2005, 06:12 PM
#50
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
My question I guess is why run a water cooler on the oil cooler at the return line from the motor. This would be the hottest water in the system (sans the water actually in the motor) It would be smarter I think to run this off of the coolant feed hose located on the bottom of the radiator.
11-08-2005, 06:24 PM
#52
From the Lotus Elise site, recommended oil coolers:
"Water to oil cooler (Laminar Flow cooler)
These are two concentric tubes with fins between them to transfer heat between the water and oil. These coolers are expensive but result in minial oil pressure drop."
This is where I got the idea that it should be in the return line:
"They can be simply fitted by replacing a section of coolant return pipe.
An advantage of water to oil coolers is that the water brings the oil up to temperature quicker when the car is started from cold."
"Water to oil cooler (Laminar Flow cooler)
These are two concentric tubes with fins between them to transfer heat between the water and oil. These coolers are expensive but result in minial oil pressure drop."
This is where I got the idea that it should be in the return line:
"They can be simply fitted by replacing a section of coolant return pipe.
An advantage of water to oil coolers is that the water brings the oil up to temperature quicker when the car is started from cold."
11-09-2005, 04:06 AM
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its 34mm.. was unable to find the hose, but got the measurement from the stock thermostat.. also quickly checked the stock radiator openings and they ae the same size as the thermostat
11-09-2005, 08:06 AM
#57
Spoke to Eric at BAT Inc, a Mocal dealer. Got some excellent information, he seems very knowledgeble about oil cooling systems, intercoolers, etc.
For Miaplaya's question, the most efficent location for the laminar oil cooler is in the cooling circuit from the radiator to the engine (lower radiator hose). It can be in the engine to radiator line, with "some" decrease in efficency.
He also mentioned that if our heater circuit flows all the time, the cooler may be put in that circuit as well, increasing mounting options. I looked in the service manual, and I do not see a thermostat control for coolant flow to the heater core, perhaps someone who knows if our heater coolant flow is constant "on" or not can post.
He recommended the A43-180 unit, which is roughly equivilent to a 16 to 19 row oil to air cooler. This unit is 10.20" in length, so it is almost 6" shorter than the A43-330, which is 16" in length and is roughly equivilent to a 25 to 30 row oil to air cooler. If the shorter one will be suffcient, it greatly decreases the mounting problems. He also mentioned that if, after installation, the coolant flow rate is not correct to cool the oil to the desired temps, that reducers are availible that will force the coolant to stay in the cooler longer, transfering more heat. This can only be known after installation.
Currently, I am looking at mounting the A43-180 on top of the radiator, using the parts listed below. I will have to "hack" the coolant lines, either find a 34mm to 38mm adapter for smooth hose, or create something. I mentioned to Eric about using the JIC 16 (-16AN) thread on adapter, but he seemed "cool" on the idea, and unless I can find a JIC 16 to 34mm smooth hose adapter, I am cool on the idea as well.
Choice of water and oil fittings on the cooler at time of purchase are inclueded in the price.
Rough cost:
Part Number Description Quantity Price
A43-180 Laminar oil to water cooler 1 $239.50
-8AN oil fittings, 1.50" (38mm) water
SP1F Mocal standard model sandwich adapter 1 $42.50
BM808A 1/2" BSP to -8AN male to male adapters 2 $?
from sandwich plate to oil hose
? -8AN female to hose connectors 4 $
These will depend on mounting location
as to bend, etc. 2 for cooler, 2 for
sandwich plate
? Unknown length of oil hose -8AN $
length will depend on mounting location
? Unknown length of water hose 1.50" $
length will depend on mounting location
? Smooth hose adapter from 34mm to 38mm 2 $
Summation:
The laminar cooler seems "doable", price will be near the price for a traditional oil to air cooler, will deliver consistent oil temp reduction.
If in main cooling circuit, will mount on top of radiator, pull hose from bottom of radiator and return to water pump. If in heater circuit, mount on firewall.
Still have to decide:
Main cooling circuit or heater circuit
How to connect water lines (34mm vs. 38mm)
JIC water lines or standard smooth hose.
Help needed:
If you know if our heater circuit flows all the time or is thermostatically controlled, please post.
If you know of some adapter from 34mm to 38mm, please post.
If you have some insight on a better way of doing this, like mounting etc, please post.
My intent is to prototype this project, post all needed parts and results, so others don't have to do the same work again. All the commercial oil coolers for the 350Z are either too expensive, are missing parts, don't fit with an intercooler, require getting rid of a part like the windshield washer tank, some hacking of the fenderwells, grill, bumper or some combination of these things. If this works and reduces oil temps to the desired amount, it can be an excellent decent priced alternative. I expect that, in the end, total cost will be around $400.
For Miaplaya's question, the most efficent location for the laminar oil cooler is in the cooling circuit from the radiator to the engine (lower radiator hose). It can be in the engine to radiator line, with "some" decrease in efficency.
He also mentioned that if our heater circuit flows all the time, the cooler may be put in that circuit as well, increasing mounting options. I looked in the service manual, and I do not see a thermostat control for coolant flow to the heater core, perhaps someone who knows if our heater coolant flow is constant "on" or not can post.
He recommended the A43-180 unit, which is roughly equivilent to a 16 to 19 row oil to air cooler. This unit is 10.20" in length, so it is almost 6" shorter than the A43-330, which is 16" in length and is roughly equivilent to a 25 to 30 row oil to air cooler. If the shorter one will be suffcient, it greatly decreases the mounting problems. He also mentioned that if, after installation, the coolant flow rate is not correct to cool the oil to the desired temps, that reducers are availible that will force the coolant to stay in the cooler longer, transfering more heat. This can only be known after installation.
Currently, I am looking at mounting the A43-180 on top of the radiator, using the parts listed below. I will have to "hack" the coolant lines, either find a 34mm to 38mm adapter for smooth hose, or create something. I mentioned to Eric about using the JIC 16 (-16AN) thread on adapter, but he seemed "cool" on the idea, and unless I can find a JIC 16 to 34mm smooth hose adapter, I am cool on the idea as well.
Choice of water and oil fittings on the cooler at time of purchase are inclueded in the price.
Rough cost:
Part Number Description Quantity Price
A43-180 Laminar oil to water cooler 1 $239.50
-8AN oil fittings, 1.50" (38mm) water
SP1F Mocal standard model sandwich adapter 1 $42.50
BM808A 1/2" BSP to -8AN male to male adapters 2 $?
from sandwich plate to oil hose
? -8AN female to hose connectors 4 $
These will depend on mounting location
as to bend, etc. 2 for cooler, 2 for
sandwich plate
? Unknown length of oil hose -8AN $
length will depend on mounting location
? Unknown length of water hose 1.50" $
length will depend on mounting location
? Smooth hose adapter from 34mm to 38mm 2 $
Summation:
The laminar cooler seems "doable", price will be near the price for a traditional oil to air cooler, will deliver consistent oil temp reduction.
If in main cooling circuit, will mount on top of radiator, pull hose from bottom of radiator and return to water pump. If in heater circuit, mount on firewall.
Still have to decide:
Main cooling circuit or heater circuit
How to connect water lines (34mm vs. 38mm)
JIC water lines or standard smooth hose.
Help needed:
If you know if our heater circuit flows all the time or is thermostatically controlled, please post.
If you know of some adapter from 34mm to 38mm, please post.
If you have some insight on a better way of doing this, like mounting etc, please post.
My intent is to prototype this project, post all needed parts and results, so others don't have to do the same work again. All the commercial oil coolers for the 350Z are either too expensive, are missing parts, don't fit with an intercooler, require getting rid of a part like the windshield washer tank, some hacking of the fenderwells, grill, bumper or some combination of these things. If this works and reduces oil temps to the desired amount, it can be an excellent decent priced alternative. I expect that, in the end, total cost will be around $400.
Last edited by gringott; 11-09-2005 at 08:25 AM.
11-09-2005, 09:04 AM
#58
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Originally Posted by gringott
Spoke to Eric at BAT Inc, a Mocal dealer. Got some excellent information, he seems very knowledgeble about oil cooling systems, intercoolers, etc.
For Miaplaya's question, the most efficent location for the laminar oil cooler is in the cooling circuit from the radiator to the engine (lower radiator hose). It can be in the engine to radiator line, with "some" decrease in efficency.
He also mentioned that if our heater circuit flows all the time, the cooler may be put in that circuit as well, increasing mounting options. I looked in the service manual, and I do not see a thermostat control for coolant flow to the heater core, perhaps someone who knows if our heater coolant flow is constant "on" or not can post.
He recommended the A43-180 unit, which is roughly equivilent to a 16 to 19 row oil to air cooler. This unit is 10.20" in length, so it is almost 6" shorter than the A43-330, which is 16" in length and is roughly equivilent to a 25 to 30 row oil to air cooler. If the shorter one will be suffcient, it greatly decreases the mounting problems. He also mentioned that if, after installation, the coolant flow rate is not correct to cool the oil to the desired temps, that reducers are availible that will force the coolant to stay in the cooler longer, transfering more heat. This can only be known after installation.
Currently, I am looking at mounting the A43-180 on top of the radiator, using the parts listed below. I will have to "hack" the coolant lines, either find a 34mm to 38mm adapter for smooth hose, or create something. I mentioned to Eric about using the JIC 16 (-16AN) thread on adapter, but he seemed "cool" on the idea, and unless I can find a JIC 16 to 34mm smooth hose adapter, I am cool on the idea as well.
Choice of water and oil fittings on the cooler at time of purchase are inclueded in the price.
Rough cost:
Part Number Description Quantity Price
A43-180 Laminar oil to water cooler 1 $239.50
-8AN oil fittings, 1.50" (38mm) water
SP1F Mocal standard model sandwich adapter 1 $42.50
BM808A 1/2" BSP to -8AN male to male adapters 2 $?
from sandwich plate to oil hose
? -8AN female to hose connectors 4 $
These will depend on mounting location
as to bend, etc. 2 for cooler, 2 for
sandwich plate
? Unknown length of oil hose -8AN $
length will depend on mounting location
? Unknown length of water hose 1.50" $
length will depend on mounting location
? Smooth hose adapter from 34mm to 38mm 2 $
Summation:
The laminar cooler seems "doable", price will be near the price for a traditional oil to air cooler, will deliver consistent oil temp reduction.
If in main cooling circuit, will mount on top of radiator, pull hose from bottom of radiator and return to water pump. If in heater circuit, mount on firewall.
Still have to decide:
Main cooling circuit or heater circuit
How to connect water lines (34mm vs. 38mm)
JIC water lines or standard smooth hose.
Help needed:
If you know if our heater circuit flows all the time or is thermostatically controlled, please post.
If you know of some adapter from 34mm to 38mm, please post.
If you have some insight on a better way of doing this, like mounting etc, please post.
My intent is to prototype this project, post all needed parts and results, so others don't have to do the same work again. All the commercial oil coolers for the 350Z are either too expensive, are missing parts, don't fit with an intercooler, require getting rid of a part like the windshield washer tank, some hacking of the fenderwells, grill, bumper or some combination of these things. If this works and reduces oil temps to the desired amount, it can be an excellent decent priced alternative. I expect that, in the end, total cost will be around $400.
For Miaplaya's question, the most efficent location for the laminar oil cooler is in the cooling circuit from the radiator to the engine (lower radiator hose). It can be in the engine to radiator line, with "some" decrease in efficency.
He also mentioned that if our heater circuit flows all the time, the cooler may be put in that circuit as well, increasing mounting options. I looked in the service manual, and I do not see a thermostat control for coolant flow to the heater core, perhaps someone who knows if our heater coolant flow is constant "on" or not can post.
He recommended the A43-180 unit, which is roughly equivilent to a 16 to 19 row oil to air cooler. This unit is 10.20" in length, so it is almost 6" shorter than the A43-330, which is 16" in length and is roughly equivilent to a 25 to 30 row oil to air cooler. If the shorter one will be suffcient, it greatly decreases the mounting problems. He also mentioned that if, after installation, the coolant flow rate is not correct to cool the oil to the desired temps, that reducers are availible that will force the coolant to stay in the cooler longer, transfering more heat. This can only be known after installation.
Currently, I am looking at mounting the A43-180 on top of the radiator, using the parts listed below. I will have to "hack" the coolant lines, either find a 34mm to 38mm adapter for smooth hose, or create something. I mentioned to Eric about using the JIC 16 (-16AN) thread on adapter, but he seemed "cool" on the idea, and unless I can find a JIC 16 to 34mm smooth hose adapter, I am cool on the idea as well.
Choice of water and oil fittings on the cooler at time of purchase are inclueded in the price.
Rough cost:
Part Number Description Quantity Price
A43-180 Laminar oil to water cooler 1 $239.50
-8AN oil fittings, 1.50" (38mm) water
SP1F Mocal standard model sandwich adapter 1 $42.50
BM808A 1/2" BSP to -8AN male to male adapters 2 $?
from sandwich plate to oil hose
? -8AN female to hose connectors 4 $
These will depend on mounting location
as to bend, etc. 2 for cooler, 2 for
sandwich plate
? Unknown length of oil hose -8AN $
length will depend on mounting location
? Unknown length of water hose 1.50" $
length will depend on mounting location
? Smooth hose adapter from 34mm to 38mm 2 $
Summation:
The laminar cooler seems "doable", price will be near the price for a traditional oil to air cooler, will deliver consistent oil temp reduction.
If in main cooling circuit, will mount on top of radiator, pull hose from bottom of radiator and return to water pump. If in heater circuit, mount on firewall.
Still have to decide:
Main cooling circuit or heater circuit
How to connect water lines (34mm vs. 38mm)
JIC water lines or standard smooth hose.
Help needed:
If you know if our heater circuit flows all the time or is thermostatically controlled, please post.
If you know of some adapter from 34mm to 38mm, please post.
If you have some insight on a better way of doing this, like mounting etc, please post.
My intent is to prototype this project, post all needed parts and results, so others don't have to do the same work again. All the commercial oil coolers for the 350Z are either too expensive, are missing parts, don't fit with an intercooler, require getting rid of a part like the windshield washer tank, some hacking of the fenderwells, grill, bumper or some combination of these things. If this works and reduces oil temps to the desired amount, it can be an excellent decent priced alternative. I expect that, in the end, total cost will be around $400.
I want to say the heater core is always heated but when my thermostat failed I wasn't getting any hot air from the heater when turned on max hot so I guess it is controlled by the thermostat.
11-09-2005, 04:16 PM
#60
If the heater hose option is possible, the routing to the front beam might not be too bad due to the size of the hose. The best option (I have been researching and measuring and thinking all day) so far seems to be going with a 32mm water fitting, which will be 2mm smaller than the current hose, hopefully I can use a worm clamp to take up the 2mm, and place the cooler inline with the lower radiator to water pump hose. The 10.20 inch model will be a very tight squeeze, and I am afraid to go to the smaller version because I might not get the desired results.
Inline creates the least routing problems, I have ordered a new stock hoses for the lower and upper from performance nissan, so when I start cutting I have a backup hose. If I decide to do the heater hose, I will use the new hoses to replace my 50K miles used hoses.
I am pretty sure, though, that I will go with the 32mm water fitting, I would rather try to reduce from our 34mm hose (2mm) than try to strech the 34 over a 38mm fitting (4mm). Especially since you told me you couldn't make a 38mm fit.
Inline creates the least routing problems, I have ordered a new stock hoses for the lower and upper from performance nissan, so when I start cutting I have a backup hose. If I decide to do the heater hose, I will use the new hoses to replace my 50K miles used hoses.
I am pretty sure, though, that I will go with the 32mm water fitting, I would rather try to reduce from our 34mm hose (2mm) than try to strech the 34 over a 38mm fitting (4mm). Especially since you told me you couldn't make a 38mm fit.