TESTED: New high flow injectors
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Joined: Oct 2002
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From: West suburbs of Chi-town
TESTED: New high flow injectors
I've been working with DeatschWerks (high flow injector company) for a couple months now to develop a more cost effective DIRECT REPLACEMENT high flow injector option for the 350Z using factory cores.
I know that many of the FI kits out there don't come with higher flow injectors and others require you to either replace your factory injector wiring harness or hack it up.
The DeatschWerks high flow injectors can be made to order in many different flow rates at very competitive prices.
I sent DeatschWerks my APS 440cc injectors to flow test and as a base for making a set of injectors to test in my car.
Testing as far as the numbers listed here are concerned were done at the industry standard 43.5psi of fuel pressure and are static numbers.
The APS 440cc injectors varied from 425cc-440cc between the 6 of them which is a 3.4% variance and an average of 432cc Definitely acceptable in anyone's book.
The DeatschWerks 440cc injectors varied from 433cc-437cc between the 6 of them which is a 1.0% variance and an average of 435cc. So as you can see, the DeatschWerks are slightly better balanced than the APS injectors.
Now that I'm done with all the technical babble, here's the goods:
I installed the DeatschWerks injectors in my car about a month and a half ago (with my factory injector harness) and have been driving with them ever since. The car drives exactly as it did before with no tuning necessary. I kept a close eye on my AEM wideband and my AFRs were nearly identical to what they were with the APS injectors.
Dyno numbers:
APS injectors:
430rwhp @ 9psi AFR ~10.8-11.2 throughout the powerband.
This was my base tune @ GRD, it was a hot humid day in July, and the 430whp was obtained after at least 15 dyno pulls so the car was VERY VERY heat soaked.
DeatschWerks injectors:
440rwhp @9psi AFR ~11.0-11.5 throughout the powerband.
460rwhp @10psi AFR ~11.1-11.6 throughout the powerband.
This was a cool, dry day a couple weeks ago and my car was NOT heat soaked.
The difference in power and AFR from one day to the other can be explained simply by the conditions since the MAP based Unichip doesn't correct how much fuel it adds based on temperature, humidity or ambient pressure. It adds fuel based on boost pressure. Cooler, dry air is denser and since the Unichip added the same amount of fuel the car ran ever so slightly leaner, and that along with the motor not being heat soaked gave me 10 more rwhp at the same boost level.
I AM NOT SAYING THAT THESE INJECTORS WILL GIVE YOU MORE POWER. SO I HOPE NO ONE TAKES WHAT I'VE POSTED TO MEAN THAT.
Fact is...these injectors are the real deal, they preform exactly as they should (As well/better than the APS injectors) and as far as I'm concerned are a great alternative to more expensive RC's and PE's.
I'm going to run the DeatschWerk's 440cc injectors in my car from now on and plan to upgrade to some DeatschWerks 650cc's next summer.
I know that many of the FI kits out there don't come with higher flow injectors and others require you to either replace your factory injector wiring harness or hack it up.
The DeatschWerks high flow injectors can be made to order in many different flow rates at very competitive prices.
I sent DeatschWerks my APS 440cc injectors to flow test and as a base for making a set of injectors to test in my car.
Testing as far as the numbers listed here are concerned were done at the industry standard 43.5psi of fuel pressure and are static numbers.
The APS 440cc injectors varied from 425cc-440cc between the 6 of them which is a 3.4% variance and an average of 432cc Definitely acceptable in anyone's book.
The DeatschWerks 440cc injectors varied from 433cc-437cc between the 6 of them which is a 1.0% variance and an average of 435cc. So as you can see, the DeatschWerks are slightly better balanced than the APS injectors.
Now that I'm done with all the technical babble, here's the goods:
I installed the DeatschWerks injectors in my car about a month and a half ago (with my factory injector harness) and have been driving with them ever since. The car drives exactly as it did before with no tuning necessary. I kept a close eye on my AEM wideband and my AFRs were nearly identical to what they were with the APS injectors.
Dyno numbers:
APS injectors:
430rwhp @ 9psi AFR ~10.8-11.2 throughout the powerband.
This was my base tune @ GRD, it was a hot humid day in July, and the 430whp was obtained after at least 15 dyno pulls so the car was VERY VERY heat soaked.
DeatschWerks injectors:
440rwhp @9psi AFR ~11.0-11.5 throughout the powerband.
460rwhp @10psi AFR ~11.1-11.6 throughout the powerband.
This was a cool, dry day a couple weeks ago and my car was NOT heat soaked.
The difference in power and AFR from one day to the other can be explained simply by the conditions since the MAP based Unichip doesn't correct how much fuel it adds based on temperature, humidity or ambient pressure. It adds fuel based on boost pressure. Cooler, dry air is denser and since the Unichip added the same amount of fuel the car ran ever so slightly leaner, and that along with the motor not being heat soaked gave me 10 more rwhp at the same boost level.
I AM NOT SAYING THAT THESE INJECTORS WILL GIVE YOU MORE POWER. SO I HOPE NO ONE TAKES WHAT I'VE POSTED TO MEAN THAT.
Fact is...these injectors are the real deal, they preform exactly as they should (As well/better than the APS injectors) and as far as I'm concerned are a great alternative to more expensive RC's and PE's.
I'm going to run the DeatschWerk's 440cc injectors in my car from now on and plan to upgrade to some DeatschWerks 650cc's next summer.
Originally Posted by BriGuyMax
PS - if any of you are interested, I have detailed flow reports for both the APS 440's and DW 440's if you need more information.
Originally Posted by BriGuyMax
PS - if any of you are interested, I have detailed flow reports for both the APS 440's and DW 440's if you need more information.
How does the pricing compare to RC injectors?
I recently bought some used RC440's that I was planning to use to replace the 380's that came with the TN kit. However, a local tuner told me that he was maxing out the RC440's with other Z's he tuned recently (ATI Prochargers) and that I should consider 550's. I didn't see the 350z application on their site though. Is it a special order deal? Also, how does it work, do you send in stock or aftermarket cores and buy the size injectors you want or what?
I recently bought some used RC440's that I was planning to use to replace the 380's that came with the TN kit. However, a local tuner told me that he was maxing out the RC440's with other Z's he tuned recently (ATI Prochargers) and that I should consider 550's. I didn't see the 350z application on their site though. Is it a special order deal? Also, how does it work, do you send in stock or aftermarket cores and buy the size injectors you want or what?
Last edited by 35ounces; Nov 23, 2005 at 04:23 PM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,303
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From: West suburbs of Chi-town
Originally Posted by G3po
How soon will they have the 650s for sale?
Call DeatschWerks and ask for Dave...he can hook you up with 650s.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,303
Likes: 1
From: West suburbs of Chi-town
Originally Posted by 35ounces
How does the pricing compare to RC injectors?
I recently bought some used RC440's that I was planning to use to replace the 380's that came with the TN kit. However, a local tuner told me that he was maxing out the RC440's with other Z's he tuned recently (ATI Prochargers) and that I should consider 550's. I didn't see the 350z application on their site though. Is it a special order deal? Also, how does it work, do you send in stock or aftermarket cores and buy the size injectors you want or what?
I recently bought some used RC440's that I was planning to use to replace the 380's that came with the TN kit. However, a local tuner told me that he was maxing out the RC440's with other Z's he tuned recently (ATI Prochargers) and that I should consider 550's. I didn't see the 350z application on their site though. Is it a special order deal? Also, how does it work, do you send in stock or aftermarket cores and buy the size injectors you want or what?
Since the 350Z application is new, it's not on the site yet.
For now you'll get the best price by sending them stock injectors as a core I believe, and they should have 440s, 550s and 650s available.
Hope I answered all your questions.
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Good news....another good option. Just an FYI, the PE injectors (Denso-based), varied between 549 and 553, an excellent tolarance as well. So, the Denso units should all be very good.
Originally Posted by MIAPLAYA
This is awesome news. The Turbonetics kit comes with Denso 380s which plug into the stock harness so upgrading to 440s for us just got a LOT easier!!!
My thoughts exactly. I can't wait to see actual pricing.
Thanks for the heads up, BriGuyMax. I love you.
Thanks for the post Brian. And also for beta testing these for us. 
Like Brian said, there is 440, 550, and 650cc sizes. If there is interest in other sizes, we would definately consider tweaking the sizing. They are not on the website yet, but they are available now.
We won't post actual pricing info until I get eveything set up with the my350z.com admins to be site sponsors. But I can tell you that we really enjoy working directly with forum members and offer great forum discounts. Expect the forum pricing to be well under $400/set after core exchange.
Like Brian said, there is 440, 550, and 650cc sizes. If there is interest in other sizes, we would definately consider tweaking the sizing. They are not on the website yet, but they are available now.
We won't post actual pricing info until I get eveything set up with the my350z.com admins to be site sponsors. But I can tell you that we really enjoy working directly with forum members and offer great forum discounts. Expect the forum pricing to be well under $400/set after core exchange.
Last edited by DeatschWerks; Nov 26, 2005 at 02:57 AM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,303
Likes: 1
From: West suburbs of Chi-town
Originally Posted by GurgenPB
DeatschWerks,
Does the modification maintain the stock injectors' angled spray pattern? It's a detail that many would like to know i think.
Thanks again.
Does the modification maintain the stock injectors' angled spray pattern? It's a detail that many would like to know i think.
Thanks again.
Did you try PMing him on this issue? He's not on the forums very much.
I'm not completely sure, but I believe his injectors mimmick the stock injector's spray pattern.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 250
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From: NJ
Originally Posted by DeatschWerks
Thanks for the post Brian. And also for beta testing these for us.
Like Brian said, there is 440, 550, and 650cc sizes. If there is interest in other sizes, we would definately consider tweaking the sizing. They are not on the website yet, but they are available now.
We won't post actual pricing info until I get eveything set up with the my350z.com admins to be site sponsors. But I can tell you that we really enjoy working directly with forum members and offer great forum discounts. Expect the forum pricing to be well under $400/set after core exchange.
Like Brian said, there is 440, 550, and 650cc sizes. If there is interest in other sizes, we would definately consider tweaking the sizing. They are not on the website yet, but they are available now.
We won't post actual pricing info until I get eveything set up with the my350z.com admins to be site sponsors. But I can tell you that we really enjoy working directly with forum members and offer great forum discounts. Expect the forum pricing to be well under $400/set after core exchange.
Sorry for being MIA guys. I just completed a move (shop AND home - yuk) so I am trying to get caught up on everything again.
As far as spray pattern, The post in that link pretty much summed up my prospective. bigger injectors will never have the same spray pattern as smaller injectors. However, with this modification, a good spray pattern is preserved. We stop well before problematic patterns occurr. The proof is in the results, BriGuyMax can tell you, no issues with start-up, throttle tip in, driveability, or AFR instability.
GB - I really need to get with Mike Wazowski on this. I assure you this will happen soon - before the end of the month.
As far as spray pattern, The post in that link pretty much summed up my prospective. bigger injectors will never have the same spray pattern as smaller injectors. However, with this modification, a good spray pattern is preserved. We stop well before problematic patterns occurr. The proof is in the results, BriGuyMax can tell you, no issues with start-up, throttle tip in, driveability, or AFR instability.
GB - I really need to get with Mike Wazowski on this. I assure you this will happen soon - before the end of the month.
Originally Posted by DeatschWerks
Sorry for being MIA guys. I just completed a move (shop AND home - yuk) so I am trying to get caught up on everything again.
As far as spray pattern, The post in that link pretty much summed up my prospective. bigger injectors will never have the same spray pattern as smaller injectors. However, with this modification, a good spray pattern is preserved. We stop well before problematic patterns occurr. The proof is in the results, BriGuyMax can tell you, no issues with start-up, throttle tip in, driveability, or AFR instability.
GB - I really need to get with Mike Wazowski on this. I assure you this will happen soon - before the end of the month.
As far as spray pattern, The post in that link pretty much summed up my prospective. bigger injectors will never have the same spray pattern as smaller injectors. However, with this modification, a good spray pattern is preserved. We stop well before problematic patterns occurr. The proof is in the results, BriGuyMax can tell you, no issues with start-up, throttle tip in, driveability, or AFR instability.
GB - I really need to get with Mike Wazowski on this. I assure you this will happen soon - before the end of the month.
Originally Posted by DeatschWerks
Sorry for being MIA guys. I just completed a move (shop AND home - yuk) so I am trying to get caught up on everything again.
As far as spray pattern, The post in that link pretty much summed up my prospective. bigger injectors will never have the same spray pattern as smaller injectors. However, with this modification, a good spray pattern is preserved. We stop well before problematic patterns occurr. The proof is in the results, BriGuyMax can tell you, no issues with start-up, throttle tip in, driveability, or AFR instability.
GB - I really need to get with Mike Wazowski on this. I assure you this will happen soon - before the end of the month.
As far as spray pattern, The post in that link pretty much summed up my prospective. bigger injectors will never have the same spray pattern as smaller injectors. However, with this modification, a good spray pattern is preserved. We stop well before problematic patterns occurr. The proof is in the results, BriGuyMax can tell you, no issues with start-up, throttle tip in, driveability, or AFR instability.
GB - I really need to get with Mike Wazowski on this. I assure you this will happen soon - before the end of the month.
I'expect that you'll see the most demand at the 650cc level. So if you wanna greese your pipeline......