So let me ask everyone this. you would rather have a supercharger with a piggy back and have 3 maps on the ecu change on the fly? or a flash that has all 3 maps changed to a static map so nothing changes on the fly?

 

first off, I wouldn't even consider a supercharger, so that is out.

Second, if that flash is a cookie cutter, one size fits all, without the ability to custom tune, I wouldn't want that either. Fact is, FI needs a custom tune. NO flash is going to be reliable enough for everyone. For me, this is reason enough to look at another setup.

 

Maf cars can get away with flashes alot easier then MAP based. Its true every car is different and cars with a custom to the car tune will be possibly better. but its a great solution out of the box seriously i took my car for two up and down the street slow drives b4 i went out and grabed a buncha gears. I literally TURN KEYED my car with a TN.

 

So, now what happens when you want a new exhaust? Are you forced into buying a tunable EMS, which IMO, should have been included with the kit?

APS kits allow for the same turn key seutp as the TN, but unlike the TN, they include a return style fuel system and tunable EMS.

 

But you pay more for aps. i really like the unichip they use, at the turbonetics facility i was in a long talk with one of the sales reps for the unichip and everything i threw at him he answered perfectly im not here to dog any competitor but i think the exhuast upgrade is a odd flaw that some people are seeing. ill know once i bolt up my new exhuast and Ecutout.

 

You pay more, but you get more....return style fuel system and tunable piggyback being the most significant additions IMO.

The TN is a good kit, just not as complete out of box as I would like to see it as an end user.

 

WRONG...the flash can be customer tuned by Technosquare OR AAM by just sending them your dyno chart or going to the shop. For APS you get what three options GRD, Dynocomp, and Brainstorm?

 

You cant be serious. Maybe I'll put up a thread asaking how many Turbonetics owners have an exhaust and see how many do....hmmm Probably ever damn one of them. How many had the car run lean because of it ONE. JetPilot. kcobean, 35ounces, blueblrr, are all running rich still even with the exhaust. I have an Apexi exhaust AND plenum spacer, yup still rich. Ditto for 35 ounces, taurran, bpl, etc, etc.

 

Not true. Look the TN install that GRD did. They would not reflash his reflash when he was running lean.

Let's be honest here, you have more options than the 3 you listed above. Regardless, even if that was true, it still better than TN solution of reflash

APS options off the top of my head:
GRD
Dynocomp
Brainstorm
Japtrix
Scott Performance

Check APS' website for others

 

Well thats about as wrong as it gets. Turbonetics NEVER said they wouldn't reflash the ECU again. I'm pretty sure he even said that. And if I recall GRD did not want to check a basic parameter of tuning especially when the fuel system has been modified. They wouldn't check fuel pressure?! Even though it seemed pretty odd that they wouldn't considering that when they tuned it with the Unichip it ran out of fuel up top and Tuan tried to say the injectors were maxed. Then once I proved that to be a crock he tried two other excuses and then finally decided he wasn't going to do anything else about it except sell him GUESS WHAT a fuel return system.

 

I sent you what I read/knew about the situation. Regardless, I can bet Tuan would have loved to get that car out of there without selling him anything or doing any more work to that car.

You can say what you want, I have my preference and you have yours. You may call me an APS fanboy, but at least I will admit issues in their kits. No FI solution is without issue. My whole point in this entire matter is that a reflash is a poor solution to tunning IMO.

 

Your opinion is yours to have but if you are honestly going to say you don't think Tuan is interested in getting more money out of someone from his shop then you missed the whole point of the free enterprise market. EVERYONE is in it to make money. And if there is a way to make more money on someone a shop is going to exploit it plain in simple. Secondly the reflash is a perfectly way to tune if you want to accomplish two things:
(A) Good power and safe tune out of box
(B) A turn key system for the customer. Good numbers and tune without lots of money spent on the dyno by the customer post install

Are there more effective ways to tune. ABSOLUTELY. Turbonetics offers a tuner kit for JUST THAT REASON. So the customer can get the kit and choose their own fuel and tuning solution. For those that want a turn key reliable system first and tuneability later the full kit is there and you can add a piggyback later. I already did a break down of the costs but without going into the specifics for the same price as an APS ST kit you can get the Turbonetics tuner kit, a FULL fuel return system not some half solution, bigger injectors for more power, an Emanage Ultimate with harness, and a upgraded oil pan.

 

I said my peace. I could give a **** really. A ST kit is weak sauce in comparison to twins. Go fight it out with someone else about how great you TN kit is. I won't run one, nor will I be running an APS ST setup.

 

Whatever floats your boat...you got my last PM so you know where I stand

 

TT > ST That is where I stand.

 

Tell that to this guy: http://dragster.com.au/modules/news/...6b3ee190c17720

or this guy: http://www.turboneticsinc.com/racing_araarslanian.htm

 

Zivman and MIAPLAYA are vehemently supporting the kits that you each have...there is nothing wrong with that.

If you take a look at the total landscape, and just take a deep breath...there are two immutable facts in regards to the FI experience as it relates to nearly any car that is not FI from the factory.

1) Every car is going to respond differently to the base tune, and really needs a re-tune for maximum power and safety

2) ALL of the kits can be equally safe, once properly installed, and properly tuned.

Everything else is up for debate, and everyone will have their own opinions. I dont really think the original question can be answer.

Absolutely none of these kits is perfect out of the box..they have their strengths, and their limitations/weaknesses.

 

hire a small midget, squeeze him in your engine bay and tell him to blow as much air as he can in the engine. its cheap

 

+1 on the APS TT
Check the Street Race on the forum and check, there's all kinds of info on the guys there racing, if that's what it's about. Barthelb is a good example, he is a runner and has lots of miles with out issues. Like everybody else, we all have our own opnion, and I think that's what the original thread was about, each person's opnion. Mine is simple: +1 on the APS TT. I'm around people with vortech, APS TT, and other types. Vortech is a good supercharge, check out Louser, his is the Vortech King, when it comes to the s/c. Lots of good products out there, that's the two for my opinion when it comes to TT's or superchargers...after all that's what we do here, express ourselves. Don't need to reply, I don't argue, just state the opnion.

 

My Dong is bigger then your DOng