Flash VS tunable EM for greddy TT
12-31-2005, 02:19 AM
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Flash VS tunable EM for greddy TT
I have a buddy that need some pro's and con's about a flash VS a piggyback. The car has a greddy kit, what kind of piggy back or reflash would you recommend? technosquare or a HKS fcon....ect. He's been getting some mixed info from other people. I'll link him too here
12-31-2005, 05:30 AM
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Thanks boosted for your help. I've read, researched, queried and listened to peoples ideas and experiences and I STILL have no idea in which direction i need to go to make sure my greddy tt stays safe on my car. Alot of people say go with the technosquare reflash becuase that way it will standardize timing maps etc. Or is my greddy E-manage sufficient so all my tuning needs? Please help me go in the right direction, you Z guys are better at this stuff than us G35ers. hahaha Thanks in advance! Peace.
12-31-2005, 05:33 AM
#4
If you can afford the FCON, I'd go with that over a reflash any day. Or you might check into the new UTEC, a few dealers have them already, but you may have to wait. Both the FCON and UTEC have complete control over timing, so you don't have to worry about they ECU advancing on you.
12-31-2005, 05:46 AM
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Depends on what boost levels are wanted, if stock boost then the reflash is fine if upping the boost to 8-9 psi then the ECU has limitations and its threshold is around 8.5 give or take.
Although other piggybacks are nice the emanage blue does the job, but if you have money to spend then the utec is nice and of courtse so is the Fcon but with the Fcon you run into tuner availability issues.
Although other piggybacks are nice the emanage blue does the job, but if you have money to spend then the utec is nice and of courtse so is the Fcon but with the Fcon you run into tuner availability issues.
12-31-2005, 05:54 AM
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The UTEC already does the job of the reflash and piggyback in one neat package..Im not a big fan of putting a piggyback on an already modified stock ECU..Just to many variables for me.....The only thing the UTEC can not do at this point is raise the idle,but that will change with software updates,which as always are FREE...
12-31-2005, 06:03 AM
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UTEC? What is it, where do i get it, and how much is it? hehe I am getting a general feeling from you smart Z owners that the technosquare isnt really a good idea when i already have the e-manage. I am going to be doing different types of mods over a period of time and most of the time will be running 5.5 or 6psi. I am getting the greddy profec e-01 and so i will run higher boost occasionally, but no more than 8psi. So with the changes in mods that i am going to be doing, and with the greddy e-manage already all setup I guess getting the UTEC (whatever it is? ) is my best bet to make sure the A/F is within its range and the the timing maps wont jump? You guys are great, what you have done in 3 replies has taken me hours and hours to figure out. haha. Much appreciated.
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12-31-2005, 06:09 AM
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OK, so the UTEC can give you the options of changing maps, will running these maps stop the ECU from changing the maps itself? I see that with forced induction you need certain options, do you guys know what these are?
12-31-2005, 06:13 AM
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OK if you add the utec you wont need the emanage blue they are both piggybacks and you wont need both just one.
I have been running the emanage blue for 18 months and has worked fine, I do suggest changing the fuel pump to a bigger pump if you are going to run 8 psi. You can do timing and fuel with the emanage it is just that the utec does it in absolute numbers while the emanage does it in plus or minus so if the ECU changes maps you wont be adding or subtracting timing from the same number. Other nice thing is that the utec detects knock while for the emanage you would have to add the j&s safeguard which would be another 500 bucks so the utec seems like a good option for all in one tool.
And yes the reflash is not desireable becuase it doesn't detect boost.
I have been running the emanage blue for 18 months and has worked fine, I do suggest changing the fuel pump to a bigger pump if you are going to run 8 psi. You can do timing and fuel with the emanage it is just that the utec does it in absolute numbers while the emanage does it in plus or minus so if the ECU changes maps you wont be adding or subtracting timing from the same number. Other nice thing is that the utec detects knock while for the emanage you would have to add the j&s safeguard which would be another 500 bucks so the utec seems like a good option for all in one tool.
And yes the reflash is not desireable becuase it doesn't detect boost.
12-31-2005, 06:18 AM
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well I already have the e-manage and i don't really want to have to spend more money. These are the mods i am going to do within the next month or so. With the e-manage and these mods, do you htink i should just do the reflash after i install these mods?
Walbro 255 fuel pump
Motordyne ½ plenum spacer w/ thermal iso kit.
Greddy Profec E-01 (pressure sensor harness, signal harness, ignition harness) boost controller...This is a good tool to work with the e-manage?
3mm head gasket
Walbro 255 fuel pump
Motordyne ½ plenum spacer w/ thermal iso kit.
Greddy Profec E-01 (pressure sensor harness, signal harness, ignition harness) boost controller...This is a good tool to work with the e-manage?
3mm head gasket
12-31-2005, 06:20 AM
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Oh and I havn't tuned the car, i am going to wait untill after i install those mods, so if i get the reflash after i install and then tune it all together can i run at least 420 whp at around 8 psi?
I already have test pipes and a free flowing exhaust also.
I already have test pipes and a free flowing exhaust also.
12-31-2005, 06:37 AM
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With the free flowing exhaust you should I hit 401 with a restrictive exhaust.
The e01 is awesome a lot of features, I also got the remote switch so I can change the boost without having to mass with the e01.
If you are going to do timing with the emanage just be careful with the harness and install the diodes to prevent burning of the coils, just do a search in the FI section of diodes and it should come up.
The e01 is awesome a lot of features, I also got the remote switch so I can change the boost without having to mass with the e01.
If you are going to do timing with the emanage just be careful with the harness and install the diodes to prevent burning of the coils, just do a search in the FI section of diodes and it should come up.
12-31-2005, 07:00 AM
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Ok so if i get the timing harness for the emanage i will just need to get the 1N5400 diodes to stop the coilpacks from getting fried? LOL so the e-manage can deal with the scary timing issues that come with the stock ecu?
Last edited by MarkG35; 12-31-2005 at 07:04 AM.
12-31-2005, 08:52 AM
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Both units work fine, there is just alot more to getting the Emanage to control timng and A/F..IMO the reflash on a F/I car is a recipie for disaster, I can not fathom how RPM "blind fueling" tuning on a F/I car equates to a good idea...Maybe at the time when there were no other options it was a band aid fix, but now there are other options to tune the vehicle, be it MAF pulldown or speed density, you need to tune and be able to take into account for more dense air and higher boost levels..The Reflash can not do this..
For example, if you tune via a reflash and are at say 5000ft + sealevel, and then drive the car lower closer to sealevel, where the air is more dense, you will make more boost..But now your reflashed ECU can not tell you are making more boost or getting more dense air and is still tuned for the +5000 sealevel RPM based fueling..Tell me how this is a good solution?
For example, if you tune via a reflash and are at say 5000ft + sealevel, and then drive the car lower closer to sealevel, where the air is more dense, you will make more boost..But now your reflashed ECU can not tell you are making more boost or getting more dense air and is still tuned for the +5000 sealevel RPM based fueling..Tell me how this is a good solution?
01-02-2006, 04:09 PM
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flash
Well what about having a reflash lets say the technosquare greddy reflash. And keeping your emanage hooked up. Have the flash controll the tricky part ie timing and perhaps raise the rev limiter and elimate the extra maps. Then fine tune it with the emanage. I'm currently tuned usisng the em blue with the map pressure harness and had the timing harness installed and had issues with it. I think that is the weak point of the em. So would there be a way to use my blue box to sense and pressure and or atmospheric changes and adjust accordingly. Granted it would be adjusting a flashed map and couldn't do timing but fuel could be tuned. In my opinion that would be the ultimate 1 2 combo for a mild 8 or 9 psi z. Any thought or comments?
01-02-2006, 04:35 PM
#18
there are still a couple of things only a reflash can take care of at this point though. speed limiter eliminiation, idle speed, rev limiter, and setting the copying of one timing map to the 3 different locations that the stock ecu will try to bounce back and forth to. if the car is tuned when the stock ecu is running on the least aggressive maps, some have run into trouble when the stock ecu goes into the most aggressive timing map.
you will need a piggyback also to do the fine tuning though. best, is to do both the reflash and piggyback, yet don't have technosquare set your timing and fuel maps. i have heard they don't get them too close really. they offer a cheaper reflash for just taking care of the simple things listed above.
hopefully we will get a stock ecu programmer coming to the aftermarket with in 6 months to a year, then all programming can be done by the end user to all parameters of the stock ecu. I CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS DAY!!!
you will need a piggyback also to do the fine tuning though. best, is to do both the reflash and piggyback, yet don't have technosquare set your timing and fuel maps. i have heard they don't get them too close really. they offer a cheaper reflash for just taking care of the simple things listed above.
hopefully we will get a stock ecu programmer coming to the aftermarket with in 6 months to a year, then all programming can be done by the end user to all parameters of the stock ecu. I CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS DAY!!!
01-02-2006, 05:22 PM
#19
Sounds like you are concerned with the costs of tuning your car correctly. Unfortunately, none of the various methods are inexpensive.
Since you already have the blue, you could simply add a timing harness and have the car conservative tuned and probably be OK.
Beyond that, you will want to upgrade to the Emanage Ultimate, or the UTEC.
Regadless of which method you choose, are you looking at over $1000/labor in additional parts, and $500-$600 for tuning, so neither methods is cheap. But from my experience, the reflashes are too risky, unless you have a dyno on site, so the reflash operator can make changes and confirm them on the dyno. Keep in mind you are tuning blind beyond 5500rpm when the MAF signal is maxed out, so RPM is your only reference...not good for FI. I know people, and even drifers that use reflashes exclusively, but there is too much margin for error when you engage in the mail order reflash process.
Since you already have the blue, you could simply add a timing harness and have the car conservative tuned and probably be OK.
Beyond that, you will want to upgrade to the Emanage Ultimate, or the UTEC.
Regadless of which method you choose, are you looking at over $1000/labor in additional parts, and $500-$600 for tuning, so neither methods is cheap. But from my experience, the reflashes are too risky, unless you have a dyno on site, so the reflash operator can make changes and confirm them on the dyno. Keep in mind you are tuning blind beyond 5500rpm when the MAF signal is maxed out, so RPM is your only reference...not good for FI. I know people, and even drifers that use reflashes exclusively, but there is too much margin for error when you engage in the mail order reflash process.
01-02-2006, 05:55 PM
#20
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
Sounds like you are concerned with the costs of tuning your car correctly. Unfortunately, none of the various methods are inexpensive.
Since you already have the blue, you could simply add a timing harness and have the car conservative tuned and probably be OK.
Beyond that, you will want to upgrade to the Emanage Ultimate, or the UTEC.
Regadless of which method you choose, are you looking at over $1000/labor in additional parts, and $500-$600 for tuning, so neither methods is cheap. But from my experience, the reflashes are too risky, unless you have a dyno on site, so the reflash operator can make changes and confirm them on the dyno. Keep in mind you are tuning blind beyond 5500rpm when the MAF signal is maxed out, so RPM is your only reference...not good for FI. I know people, and even drifers that use reflashes exclusively, but there is too much margin for error when you engage in the mail order reflash process.
Since you already have the blue, you could simply add a timing harness and have the car conservative tuned and probably be OK.
Beyond that, you will want to upgrade to the Emanage Ultimate, or the UTEC.
Regadless of which method you choose, are you looking at over $1000/labor in additional parts, and $500-$600 for tuning, so neither methods is cheap. But from my experience, the reflashes are too risky, unless you have a dyno on site, so the reflash operator can make changes and confirm them on the dyno. Keep in mind you are tuning blind beyond 5500rpm when the MAF signal is maxed out, so RPM is your only reference...not good for FI. I know people, and even drifers that use reflashes exclusively, but there is too much margin for error when you engage in the mail order reflash process.
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