illZ

How do you know this by looking at it in a picture???

I guess HKS is wrong.

illZ

Really? That's constructive.

illZ

Good luck. I don't believe HKS shares their compressor maps with the public.

The change in compressor housing alone is enough to operate differently.

Will Pwr

iTrader: (4)

exactly the point...its not meant to be a kit to have the claim of the most peak HP. Its a real world kit, with response, power and driveability (not to say others arent - its just different philosophy and goals). Yes, the physical size of a turbo does give a general scope of its output...but in the end its about its efficiency and how much CFM it can flow...which is more due to its internals...compressor design, blades, and housings. Different combinations of compressor and turbine housing..for very simple board example - using a "mid-size" compressor with a fairly "large-sized" A/R turbine housing.

Will Pwr

iTrader: (4)

Yes, unfortunately HKS does not publicly share its compressor maps.

As you stated, even garrett people said they are near identical..but the key is that they are not identical...because it would be a conflict of interest to say the least..especially since HKS makes thier own housings and wheel designs. I personally can not give out maps..but you may want to talk to some HKS dealers that are very turbo-educated to pick thier brain.

mr2fasterthanyo

thank you.. all too often people are only concerned with getting the bigest turbo that you can.. then what do you have? a dyno queen? maybe a drag car if you add in a two-step rev limiter? that isn't any fun....

Will Pwr

iTrader: (4)

No prob.... I totally agree. Yes, I personally am guilty of having a decently large single turboin the past..HKS to4r on a Supra that did 604rwhp..but at the same time, I didnt go with the HKS t51r..which could have gave me 800..The peak claim didnt mean as much to me as just having response. Dont get me wrong, I am one for a full front mount IC look as well, but efficiency is the concept at the moment. A larger full FMIC can reduce reduce efficiency (ie pressure drop) with all other things being equal. However, if you turbo up boost or such, it would be more utilized..but at the same time you must address the fuel/engine constraints accordingly.

chimmike

iTrader: (7)

I don't know why HKS wouldn't want to share compressor maps as that's truely the only intelligent way to find what turbo fits your specific goals best.....oh well. All I know is, they're some damn expensive turbos!

illZ

I understand where you are coming from. But HKS is a Tuner shop. They do the homework, you pay. It's not like HKS doesn't specify output numbers or give A/R or turbine specs. So you can make an intelligent purchase. Just not disassemble and build your own kit to HKS specs.

And that's the bottom line. It's an HKS spec'd turbo.

Peace.

Will Pwr

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, a compressor map would be the easist way....but thats policy, sorry.. (not saying its true...there still needs to some propriety-only info especially when there is another manufactuer that uses the same base design)

HKS does do offer the specs of the turbos online....its not as easy as comparing compressor maps, but for a person that can read a compressor map...comparing inducer/exducer, A/R, etc specs would give just as good of an idea of the turbos.

http://www.hksusa.com/products/?id=713

pln2311

iTrader: (2)

how much would one of these single turbo kits cost?

mr2fasterthanyo

more than you can afford pal. $H$K$S$

sorry bad F&F reference

georgec

I think you have that totaly back to front my friend, a smaller FMIC and ducting will cause a larger pressure drop than a larger FMIC all things being equal.

MIAPLAYA

iTrader: (3)

Think APS ST X2....well maybe not that high but at least in APS TT cost range...

Will Pwr

iTrader: (4)

Actually, no, I do have it right. The larger the FMIC and piping will be prone to more pressure drop than a smaller FMIC with boost pressure being equal...hense my reference turbo efficiency / pressure drop.

A larger FMIC can offer more cooling efficiency than a smaller FMIC, especially in higher boost pressures and CFM rates.

mr2fasterthanyo

actually you are wrong. too many people all too often put a too-large intercooler on their car because of the "look"... but that actually causes a drop in the efficiency. yes a larger intercooler can cool air better, but there is a point where the pressure drop over a large intercooler is more than the gains you get by running a larger intercooler. simple heat transfer and fluid mechanics. basically you are wasting more energy pushing the air through the larger and longer piping that you are making up because the air is cooler. it is possible for piping to be too big... too much friction loss for the volume of air you are pushing

georgec

I disagree, it's real easy to check this issue, fit a pressure gauge before and after the intercooler, if the intercooler is too small you will see a pressure drop for sure.

That's correct and the larger intercooler in most instances will offer improved intercooler performance (lower charge air temp) and a lesser pressure drop across the intercooler core.

kakiller

Willpwr has it right. And I've tested it.

Going from a HKS S-Type to a larger R-Type on SR Motor registered a pressure drop. Also Intake air temps did drop with the larger intercooler, as expected.

If you were to say go from a true tube fin Intercooler to a larger bar plate intercooler (or one of those weird Vspec Greddy intercoolers where the fins don't go completely thru the the tube) you might see a less of a press drop. But that isn't comparing apples to apples.

Will Pwr

iTrader: (4)

Yes, It is really easy to check as you mention, we (as many others) have done that....and its proven. If you go too large of an FMIC for a given setup you will result in pressure drop over a smaller properly sized FMIC - if all things are being equal which is my reference from above.

If youre reference is that you if go too small of an intercooler for a given turbo, which I am assuming that you are since you stated the words "too small", then yes it will be detrimental...basically the IC can not flow the same CFM as what the turbo output is. BUT this is not the case that I am referring to. I am referring to a kit that is operating at its designed level and then the FMIC is replaced with a larger one of the SAME core/endtank design (core design and endtanks are a variable) then you will have more pressure drop at the same given boost pressure / cfm. However, if you use a larger FMIC with say a theoretical better flowing core design as well as respective end tanks, then yes you just might have better flow and less drop with . This is often the case when replace OEM intercoolers...which is also which the user is turning up boost at the same time....hense all things not still being equal

Will Pwr

iTrader: (4)

Thanks...just the point I was trying to make....apples to apples

your SR is a perfect example, the S-Type works great for the stock turbo or a small upgrade...when you go with the R-Type, its not that it wont work..you will just have lower air temps and some pressure drop with with all else staying the same. If you do increase boost pressure, increase CFM with a larger turbo, etc...then you will be able to take full potential of the larger R-Type. on the otherside if you still had the smaller S-Type with the said increases, then yes its a restriction.

Just my $0.02