beast_bl

That's true enough, but my main concern is not having to get the car tuned. With the base map of the APS tt kit, I should be ok with the stock exhaust right? No need for additional tuning?

georgec

APS will be releasing massive high flow cats to suit twin turbo engines in the very near future, would be ideal for your wants/needs.

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (4)

If you're going to spend over 6 grand on the turbo kit alone and more for supporting mods...then why the hell would you NOT spend a couple hundred to get it tuned??? The single BIGGEST mistake that people make when they add forced induction to their cars is cutting corners...that's why we have people with blown motors. BTW...too rich is bad too. It can wash out your cylinder walls, creating more friction and heat that can lead to engine wear and even damage.

Get the thing tuned...no matter what. If you want less power...then tune it on 6 or 7psi instead of 9 or 10.

beast_bl

I can appreciate the fact as well as anybody that it does not make any sense to cheap out after you've gone so far, and if need be, I will not hesitate to get the car tuned.

But the flip side, and my point, is that if I'm spending upwards of $6-$7k for a TT kit including install, a TT kit APS touts as the 'most complete kit on the market' which includes a pre-mapped piggy back using factors I am not going to deviate from, why should I need to get it tuned?

So back to my intial query, any feedback on an APS TT Kit with the stock map settings, on a stock block, as a daily driver.

Thanks again for all of your time!

Zivman

iTrader: (19)

you aren't really looking at this the right way. Two things:
1.) a Custom tune is a must regardless of what kit you run. YES, you can run a stock APS map and not blow your motor, but it won't be the safest. On top of that, you won't be getting all the power you paid for.

2.) Be prepared to dish out 10-12K on your TT setup

hurahn

Just think of it as optimizing. It'll run great out the box but think how it'll run with a little tweak here and there.

beast_bl

Well, in the end to tune or not tune is a question of personal preference and necessity.

Is there anyone running the stock base map with their APS TT kit?

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (4)

Saying that tuning the car after adding more than 100hp is personal preference just shows your lack of knowledge on the subject.

It's not personal preference...it's a necessity to anyone who knows any decent amount about modifying cars and doing it right. Your unichip in your APS kit could come with a jacked up tune and you wouldn't even know it if you just tossed it on there and didn't check anything.

You're not going to find many people running APS TT kits without a tune, because it's not a smart move.

barthelb

I think what you might be missing or mis-understanding is this, not even from a power standpoint you want it tuned properly to your car so 1)your gas mileage isn't way off cuz if tuned rich it can, 2)its streetable, there are a bunch of things you can tweak, and 3) to make your powerband more usable and smoother. Its not just to gain more power, I think you might have thought everyone wants you to run 400+ on your stock block. Thats not it, its to make it more efficient. You can still have a custom tune and not push all that power. Its up to you.



Exactly right, tuning is not mandatory but is the right thing to do.

BrianLG35C

iTrader: (2)

Just take a drive down to Chicago and have Tuan at GRD install and tune it properly. You won't be sorry.

JoneZZZ

iTrader: (1)

Why spend for a twin turbo and keep a stock exhaust.....you have to revisit your budget, between your initial thoughts on tuning and on the exhaust.....I say rethink this.......tuning is a MUST......pushing a twin turbo througha stock exhaust.....

beast_bl

First of all, all I ask is that you PROPERLY read my post before flaming it. I said that OTHER than Personal preference, NECESSITY would lead me to tune the car. Go ahead, read it over, it's there. I work in this industry and I take offence to being told that I don't know what I'm talking about. OBVIOUSLY if the car needs to be tuned, then it will be, if it doesn't, tuning it to squeeze out more horse power or better fuel mileage now comes down to PERSONAL PREFERENCE, wouldn't you say?

Second, this thread is not a debate about tuning or not tuning. I'm not talking about the APS tuner kit where you have to arrange your own Fuel Management and Mapping. I'm talking about a kit that is supposed to be BOLT ON, COMPLETE, NO TUNING REQUIRED. Yes, APS may send a whacked out unichip (First of all that should NEVER happen with ANY reputable company) but, any installer, correction, any qualified installer would do a few passes on the dyno and make sure the A/F ratio's were where they're supposed to be (as per the APS mapping). Only a complete idiot would "toss it in there without checking." And what if the MAP is actually what it's supposed to be? And the car runs great? Would it not be my choice if I did not want to dial it in further with more tuning? Believe it or not, some people would be more than satisfied with less than 100% capacity.

www.************************

Read up on the kit, see what they say about their tune, and that's what I base my inquiry upon.

Third, because I am work in this industry, I am well aware of the benefits of a good tuning, the gas mileage, the driveability and I know that you don't just have to tune for more power. And never did I say that I was AGAINST having the car tuned, I simply want to hear from the few people if any, that are running with the map APS sent them. That's all. There needs to be no more debate about tuning or not tuning because I agree with all of you. If the car NEEDS it, it should be tuned, especially after investing tens of thousands of dollars.

And finally, it's my car. Simple as that, I'll put whatever I want on, with whatever else I want to put on, stock exhaust, aftermarket, whatever. So please, unless you're an APS TT owner, running with the stock map, don't reply, because you don't need to, I already agree. All I want is feedback.

Thank you.

dmoffitt

iTrader: (4)

I'm curious too - I live just south of you in Rochester NY and daily-drive my Z year round (it's AWESOME in the snow, amazingly enough - thanks to Nokian Hakka RSi's )

I have the benefit that I work from home and don't "need" a car each and every day, in fact if I had downtime here and there, it wouldn't kill me - so long as it didn't bleed money like my Porsche did I figure about 400rwhp is plenty of fun and I don't need a built short-block and an extra 100-150hp to enjoy the car, heck I'd be happy enough with 350-375 but haven't liked the S-T kits all that much (the manifolds aren't to my liking to say the least) and am wary of centrifugal superchargers.

Anyhow, I've been debating NA (cams, vtc pulleys, bottom end etc - about a 10k+ project similar to the member from AUS) vs SC vs TT for some time - it's not a lack of money or experience that drives me to wait, it's simply a matter of waiting for better / further development, I've paid to be on the bleeding edge (built a ~550rwhp Porsche 951 on a fully setup chassis, approx 2450lb) - I just want to make sure I don't compromise my DD. I would prefer to keep the stock ECU (a chip or reflash is fine) and not need to run e-manage / utec / motec (I played the TEC3 game and DIY EFI is just not as "fun" as people think it is).

Keep the good responses coming guys!

BriGuyMax

iTrader: (4)

This is what you actually said:
Notice..you said personal preference and necessity, not either/or. Either way...tuning a car is NOT personal preference for anyone who knows what they are talking about. Disagree with that, and you just look stupid.

If the kit was truly "bolt-on complete" then why do they not send you a clutch that can handle the power, or new brakes, or tires that can handle the power, or even guages to monitor your turbo system?? As much as APS touts the system it does not include everything you need to run it on your car. Believe me...I OWN the turbo kit.


Did you miss the part where I OWN AN APS TWIN TURBO KIT? I think I'm pretty familiar with all the literature out there on it.

If you actually knew what you were talking about you wouldn't be asking for advice on here. Especially if you "work in the industry". I wasn't flaming you. You'd know if I was flaming you.

You original post said nothing about "stock tune". And if you don't want real world advice from the people who own APS TT kits and have had lots of success with them, then fine. I and many other knowledgeable people won't post anymore to help you out. Good luck finding people running the stock APS map...they are almost nonexistent.

Unsubscribing.

beast_bl

Thank Goodness. Now I don't have to ask the mods to close this thread.

Thanks to the rest of you for your constructive responses.

I noticed that a couple of respondents were from Australia, what are the chances of getting the APS People to chime in here? Are there any actually on this board?

The company I work for actually distributes APS in Ontario, Canada, so I could just as easily have asked them myself, but I figured I'd try here first for an unbiased response. We've got our first APS TT kit for the Z on order for a customer, so I don't have any one up here I've dealt with to ask. Mostly in Canada everyone goes for the Greddy TT kit, because of the $$. Most of the APS stuff we've sold so far has been WRX turbo upgrade stuff (we're a WRX stocking dealer), and the 350Z exhausts. A customer tonite just ordered the brand new C6 TT Kit, and hopefully we'll have it done for the Performance World Show coming up in March at the International Centre in Toronto. I believe it will be the first TT C6 in Canada.

Thanks again for all of your time!

Madelinot

iTrader: (1)

Yes, for about 10,000 miles, daily driven. Stock exhaust and everything else for now, except an ATS dual carbon clutch. Runs great. I estimated it didn't need a retune after carefully checking and monitoring EGTs and wideband O2 values. I'll get a tune once I replace the exhaust, which is VERY soon.

BTW, I'm just a few hours away, in Ottawa. Do you know of a reputable tuner in the GTA that works with the Unichip? Magnus Motorsports perhaps?

Later,

dmoffitt

iTrader: (4)

Glad to hear it Madelinot. I am a bit concerned having done a technosquare reflash (which, while I haven't verified via wideband YET, seems to fix a bit, and break some stuff too... my AF is all OVER the place - seems pig-rich down low and a bit leaner up top, I actually improved highway mileage by 3-4mpg and lost almost 5 city). Anyhow, I'm probably going to man up and throw my Zeitronics from the porsche onto the car when I install the test pipes (even though it won't be 100% optimal re: position) and at least get an idea of where things are at... if it scares me re: what will happen when I turbo it, I suppose I could man up and snag a Motec from AUS (esp. since they developed a harness that allows the factory DBW system to be maintained, I like VDC and cruise control for street/highway, thanks!)...

Of course, my goal is the same as the orignial poster: install the turbo kit on a stock engine and daily drive it w/o a need for aftermarket tuning - as long as I'm not washing down the cyl. walls or burning valves, I'll be happy, 10-15% extra power be damned.

beast_bl

Excellent, that's good to hear. Do drive it year round? If not, what's the coldest day you've taken it out and how did it run? Have you put it on a dyno yet?

As far as Unichip tuners go, Magnus is one, but I'd recommend going to Peter @ Maximum Performance in Hamilton. He's our guy we use for Turbo kit development (We've just completed a kit for the '04 + Lancer Ralliart) and installs. He is doing that C6 APS TT kit for us. He's very qualified. On the same subject, we've just become a Unichip Distributor in Canada and for those of you needing just the plug and play unit, I can be of help. The company is called J.R.P.

beast_bl

Excellent.

Madelinot

iTrader: (1)

I do not drive it in the Winter. The coldest I drove it was about -5 celcius, I drove it until it snowed last December. In Toronto, since there is barely any snow, you won't have any problem. The performance is just amazing with cold temperature, it makes a world of difference. Problem is traction of course. My best 1/4 mile time is 12.7@115 (2.0s 0-60 foot), with a slipping clutch, stock exhaust and in 30+ celcius temps. I'm sure I'd be in the 11s now with the ATS clutch, exhaust and slicks. Here is a video of it last Summer, running a 12.9:

http://videos.streetfire.net/Player....4-E20EDE6E98F4

And some pics of my APS kit & install:

http://www.science.uottawa.ca/~paul/...rbo/index.html

Cheers,