it does not show that on the 350Z only on the G35

 

Peter from APS told me last week that the APS twin turbo equipped 350Z is at the emission lab for CARB testing this week.

George

 

I was told that the APS 350Z twin turbo was a border line pass on the first CARB emission test and that the emission lab engineer was absolutely amazed at how clean the engine emissions were on the APS twin turbo.

George

 

Lucky for me I was leaning towards either the APS TT or Stillen Stage 2 based upon reputation, feedback and reliability. I prefer having the tuning left only to them and not being tempted to increase the boost or fiddle myself. The only drawback to the Stillen is the need for the aftermarket hood, which IMO is not nearly as pleasing as the stock design.

 

For the money Stillen is NOT worth it. I do not know APS that well, but I was under the impression that the JWT kit was the closest to being CARB legal. It is an awesome kit and you would be happy with it.

 

Fact is you either have a CARB Exemp order for the system or you don't, being close means zero to a consumer if you can't actually obtain a CARB EO for the FI product you're purchasing.

 

Well, when I looked at TT setups, I did consider who was working on it and how close they were. That is why I went with JWT, also the other reason is that VRT is close by and I liked their work on other cars and love it on mine. But you are right, we put the kits on and hope not to get pulled over, until the approval is there. That, I think is why it does matter at what point the manufacturer is at in the process.

 

Bottom line, being close means zip, you either have an approval (CARB EO) or you don't. A manufacturer of a twin turbo kit could be close to obtaining a CARB EO for 10 yeras and never actually obtain a CARB EO for the twin turbo system.

George

 

I have the APS TT set-up installed. Even if I wanted to go through the trouble of returning to stock cams, CARB approval might end up meaning "zip" to me. I am starting to get the impression that supplementing my present APS TT kit with the needed parts ( given a version of the kit gains the E.Q. Number) might prove very cost ineffective. I hope I am wrong. I still hope APS gains the number...would be a hell of an accomplishment obviously. My hat is off to all these after market companies who are dealing with such ridiculous bureaucracy.

 

So I'm slightly confused here. Since you obviously have some sort of connection with APS here. First you say that APS was close, then you go on a rant when somebody mentions that the JWT kit was close.

So which is it there friend? You can't call "close" then say "close only counts in horseshoes and handgrenades."

Every turbo will have problems with "cold starts" which is the problem they will hopefully figure out. The turbo has absolutely NOTHING to do with why it will pass or fail. It's a problem of getting the CATS hot enough when you first start the car to do their job. All TKS should pass SMOG when the car is warm (unless tuned for something different).

 

True, cold start emissions are the problem for all turbo system manufacturers trying to meet the CARB EO requirements.

Absolutely dead wrong. The turbos are the main reason why the cold start emissions are dirty as the light off time for the cats are slowed/delayed because of the higher exhaust gas restriction caused by the turbocharger fitment pre cat converters.

Goerge

 

Can somebody explain to me why the OEM companies like Suburu, Audi, Mitzubishi, Toyota (back in Supra days) and so forth don't have that problems with their Turbo kits. What are they doing that APS/JWT and so forth are not able to figure out.

 

Subaru (and you'll notice there are less turbo OEM Cars) had to use a diverter valve and 3 cats to pass emissions. One of the reasons why the older ones were all NA sold here.

 

I fully understand why a Tk has issues, and it's simply because it cannot heat the cats fast enough for the cold start test. So yes it's technically the "turbo" but it's not an issue of the turbo it's the emission system that isn't designed for it. And ALL TK kits will face that same issue. You make it sound like a stock APS system runs clean, which it does not (in cali anyway) and I found that misleading and after your comments which I quoted found them more misleading.

Fail is fail, like you said. "Tuning" the car at start up is going to be difficult, and probably will lower the stock power of the car (which can obviously be altered after passing CARB).

 

so basically what you are saying they can't pass because in order to do so they have to change/add the cats and that is not allowed under CARB...?

This law just needs to go away

 

Technically, it may still pass, but OEM has to ensure it will pass everytime and over the years. When I had my Prodrive Stage III kit on my WRX, it had the uppipe without a cat, a high-flow catted downpipe and no third cat. It would pass emissions, but not visual. However, a couple years down the road when the one cat may begin to deteroriate may lead to another outcome where as I am sure the three OEM cats would not cause any concern at all. The power difference was night and day, but despite the potential clean test, the law states in pure black and white that it did not matter.

OEM manufacturers get to pass on the cost of the testing and R&D to millions of cars (or maybe hundreds of thousands depending on the model), but aftermarket tuners have a more limited number of customers and to spread that cost to.

 

Exactly, your car would pass as long as the heat was in the cats. The problem with CARB is that you have to pass the COLD START, which is starting the car after sitting and they collect ALL the exhaust gas for 10 minutes and get results from that. A cat is a very simple thing, and it basically burns bads stuff off if it is hot. If it isn't hot then it ain't working.

 

Correct which is what I stated in my last post.

Yes that's correct, In this case it's simply the turbocharger fitment pre cat converter that causes the poor emissions because of slow cat converter light off time.

Correct, every turbo system manufacturer will face the identical issues with slow cat light off time

The APS TT system as tested was very clean on engine emissions, in fact the first APS CARB test I'm told was a pass, all be it a border line CARB EO emission pass.

Correct, close enough is not good enough. The turbo system manufacturer has to prove a good emission pass at least twice in the same emission lab before finalising CARB EO documentation.

Goerge

 

Hmm, onebadfyvo, how about actually checking the California Air Resource website before making a statement that Vortech is CARB pending? Here's a link to the Vortech's Execute Order D-213-22:

http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/de...o/D-213-22.pdf

Interesting that only Stillen and Vortech are the only 350Z aftermarket manufacters that are mentioned in the California Air Resource website.

 

it takes months for the CARB web site to reflect changes. It took over a year for the AEM CAI's to show on there after they got their EO