Why is his name "veilside350ZTT" if he is only a "T".

Wouldn't a "TT" be twin turbo?

That's why he had a failure!

 

Actually the colder months cause a more dense air charge,creating more boost, which actually can cause detonation. Especially when your running an RPM based, and not MAP mased tune on the car. If the turbonetics reflash is tuned for 8-9 psi, and you run 11-12 psi regardless if the A/F's is correct the timing needs to be adjusted for the extra boost. Which in his case can cause detonation and or pre-ignition. FYI pre-ignition is caused when the gases in the cylinder combust pre-maturely due to heat, timing,hot spots in cylinder walls,poor octane, ect..
His timing chain tensioner could have been the cause,however if his timing was way off, he may have made piston to valve contact, seeing how the VQ is an interference style motor. I would think however the valves would have bent, prior to snapping a rod through the block. When a rod breaks and goes through the block it usually has to do with too much boost or catostophic detonation or a seized rod bearing.(especially if the rod has a little "twist" to it when he removes it)

Now, go install your turbonetics kit and leave out the reflashed ecu and you tell me what happens under boost..
1. Limp mode, due to the MAF voltage being maxed out causing the ECU to think something is wrong.
2. Detonation, due to running stock timing
3. detonation due to not enough fuel

end result, catostrophic engine failure...
I would look to confirm the reflash was done correctly or at all for that matter.Honestly the car should not have been in limp mode at all if the reflash was properly done. Limp mode is the stock ECU's way of telling you something is wrong. If the timing was off, there was something causing it, and the timing would have been off before the installation also if it were something mechanical. I highly doubt the tensioner cause the problem and was less of an effect of another problem.The tensioner in question is oil fed and tightens with the increased oil pressure.The only other possible scenario is the car experienced low oil pressure at higher rpms causing the timing chain to jump a tooth and throw things off enough to pre ignite the gas in the combustion chamber. If the oil pressure had gone low, this would also contribute to rod end bearing failure,due to the lack of lubrication..
This is al diagnosed by me from XXX miles away from XX years of experience working on high performance cars, and X years of tearing down and building VQ motors at our shop..

 

cant disagree that tuning is very vital to a F/I car. I do believe that a flash will work fine with a TN car making around 400whp. Its all the extra benefits with a standalone, such as knock control, and being able to see all ur runs in real time, being able to watch ur egt's across the rev range, all that good stuff, which makes a stand alone a better tool!
also, pre ignition is when gas is ignited due to a extremely high cylinder temperature and/or pressure. the opposite would be detonation, which could very well be the culprit due to the cold weather. see, people think "wow, my car is running so good in this cold, cold weather." ya, no kidding. ur running more boost which in turn makes u run leaner and has a higher probability of detonation.
i dont think any of MRC's ideas are off, and its not like he's claiming thats exactly what happend, he's just giving an educated guess from the best of his knowledge.

 

It's not normal for a car to blow up like that, and it shouldn't blow up like that. I've known shops who stand a bit more than that behind their products and installs. It's not goodbye and good luck, cross your fingers your engine doesn't blow up on your way home..

 

Apologies for the errors as that post was typed in haste. I agree that there are many POSSIBLITIES as to the reason why this motor was blown, but blaming it one one particular cause would be jumping to conclusions at this point. Perhaps I should have left it at that. Expecting this problem to be diagnosed on the internet with little to no information regarding the specifics is asking too much. While your explanation is definitely possible, there are a lot of what-ifs involved.

Blaming any situation on the reflash, however, is an all too easy copout that "shops" and "tuners" tend to use to cover their own ***. The possibility that the reflash is "bad" is slim to none, and it's all too easy to place blame on something that isn't within the comfortable norm.

 

There really is nothing the shop could have done that would cause the engine to do what it did..Think about it, the shop simply bolted on a turn key kit, no tunning done by the shop. I hate to say it, but placing any liability on modifying a car is a very Grey area. Most shops will stand by their "work" but for a shop to warranty a Nissan motor that blew up due to the fact the customer wanted to increase its enginered power output by over 150 hp, is simply unrealistic.....There was no way for the shop that did the install to determine if there was an existing problem with the factory timing chain or tensioner if that indeed caused the problem..
I agree the situation sucks for the owner, but in reality, I am far pressed to put blame on the shop that did the work..If this were the case, then you might as well blame the manufacturer of the turbo kit, and Nissan as well..
The possibility that the reflash was bad is greater than you think and is in fact GREATER percentage that the "Modified ECU mapping" was bad as opposed to believing that there was an existing problem with one of the TOP TEN designed engines for several years running.
I simply am throwing out suggestions to look for based on the information I have read and based on my past and personal experiences. IMHO this was a tunning related issue before an install related issue. These things happen when you mass produce and market a "cookie cutter" ECU reflash for a turbo kit.It may work fine on 99% of the vehicles,however we now are discussing that 1% of vehicles that it may not have worked on.
Some more factors to consider is that the wasegate settings were off on his kit, and he actually made more boost than the REFLASH was able to compinsate for, causing problems. There are many variables in this case.
However my DIE HARD opinion is that going F/I on a N/A "Reflashed" ECU is NEVER a good idea, and I would NEVER settle for it on my own car..I still to this day can not understand how allowing someone 3000 miles away to enter a timing and fuel map into your ECU, without knowing what is going on with your particular car, is a good idea.
once again these are only my professional opinions..I am not saying that there could not have been different circumstances in the owners case, that caused the end result..

 

You're still making assumptions though. That's all you will be doing until we are given more info by the original poster.

Did the original poster even have a boost gauge or wideband installed? I guess the bottom line is that he should have taken the appropriate precautions after installing and dynoing the kit, and should not have been on the road or under boost with the issues he was having.

Oh, and the sad fact is, I am MORE than willing to blame freak occurances and problems on shop error. I don't know if you're aware, but the aftermarket auto business is FULL of shops and people who shouldn't be allowed near a car. I've seen my fair share of mechanics who are so lazy and dishonest I wouldn't even allow them to check my tire pressure.

 

I agree with MRC - incomplete setup relying on a reflash. yes, there are things he could have done to help prevent this, buying the 3rd party components - fuel system, tunable EMS, gauges, etc.

You install this kit and rely on a reflashed ECU and you are playing with fire IMO. Say what you want about X amount of people running these reflashes with no issue, but posts like this are not uncommon.

Some food for thought:

 

Now that, I agree 10000000% with...

 

I think you're overstating Sharif's statement about the reflash being hit or miss. I know for a fact that the vast majority of the reflashed kits perform well within safety limits. There are certain few cars that just don't seem to take well to the reflash. I'll be the first to agree with that. But, like stated, it's not apparent why this always is the case. It would be more likely that it is an inconsistency of some sorts with the car, or the [self] install of the kit, than the reflash process.

This has already been proven in situations where the ECU has been reflashed multiple times with no change in performance. In this case, it would be advisable to go with a tunable EMS of some sort. BUT, this still is a good indication that something may be amiss with your setup. It might be a good indication that something else is wrong...

Now, I know you aim to turn this into another TN vs APS debate, which I'd rather not. I can only say that TN coudn't release the stage 1.5 upgrade soon enough...

 

You saw right through my post. Heck, I was basically chanting
APS >>>> APS >>>> APS >>>> APS >>>> APS >>>> APS >>>> APS >>>> APS

IT's comments like yours above that ruin threads

 

Actually, I think he pretty much quoted it word for word....
Not that Shariff has all the answers to the world problems.

Because......The reflash SUCKS???

 

No, to end this debate about the more "complete" kit.

And, the reflash doesn't suck at all. It really depends on your situation. My car with the reflash is putting down more power than any TT kit I've seen with an out-of-the-box tune.

It bothers me to see people getting antsy and blowing a lot of extra cash for aftermarket fuel systems and EMS when such a better alternative is so close.

 

 

This is why i do my own work out of my own place

 

Oh, and Im sure you're familiar with taking things out of context.

I'm not going to argue with Shariff, he is a very reasonable and tactful individual. I believe what he was saying is that a handful of cars just don't react well to the reflash. He never said "teh reflash sux".

 

maybe he was saying it isn't worth the risk. it might be a small percentage that have issues with a flash, but for the few extra bucks a tunable EMS will run you, you might save the trouble of popping your motor

 

Teh...Lol Chico reference..
I think a reflahs on a factory turbo charged car is a great alternative.But when you take a N/A car and reflash the ECU for a F/I application, any GOOD tuner knows there will be problems. It may work fine for you, but try changing altitude with your car and seeing what more dense cooler air does for your boost.And see how an RPM based tune of a N/A reflash compensates for the increased boost pressure..It wont..
Im not debating the kit, or the reflash, but I am actually more or less debating the fact, how people are quick to blame the installer when something goes wrong, and not the manufacturer of the kit..Me being an installer, I can say that very few companies, if not ZERO, will take any sort of responsability for their kits being UNDER ENGINERED, and everyone ultimately points fingers at the installers..Sometimes the installer is to be blamed,but not always...

 

just to get back to you guys.. I did not have boost gauge or air fuel ratio gauge yet.. The shop ordered the wrong color defi gauges so they were not installed yet..

I think what im going to do now is just build a block.. So im looking into some that sharif and a couple other companys sell.. I also saw an engine on ebay i was thinkin about purchasing but its all the way in AZ it went for around $700.. im located in washington so shippin would have probably been alot anyways. If you guys got any ideas for me let me know.. Im 22 and sell cell phones for a living.. So i have some limited funds.. Im trying to get my car running asap. any ideas wud be appreciated.. Basically what im asking is, what would u do if this happen to you? what would u purchase? also try and keep it around 4-5K

 

You also need to budget in a way to fix the issue so it doesn't damage a second engine, which might mean a piggyback.