Ok, time to ditch the FCON for something user-tunable
05-20-2006, 07:46 PM
#1
Ok, time to ditch the FCON for something user-tunable
I'm getting so frustrated with this FCON running so rich, I've about had it with the whole deal. This is the third try to get it right, and it's still waaaayyyy too rich. The air temp compensation is screwing everything up. I'm seeing an a/f ratio of 11.0:1 at idle, and WOT is mid to low 10's. Cruising, I'm seeing around 11.5 to 12.0.
Why is my car so damn possessed? If one thing gets resolved, here comes another problem right on its tail. I thought the FCON was the "end-all" but ever since I got it I've had more downtime than fun. And it's not like I have incompetent tuners or anything.....(SGP/Jotech)
Why is my car so damn possessed? If one thing gets resolved, here comes another problem right on its tail. I thought the FCON was the "end-all" but ever since I got it I've had more downtime than fun. And it's not like I have incompetent tuners or anything.....(SGP/Jotech)
05-20-2006, 08:39 PM
#3
i wonder what the issue is?
perhaps your fuel pressure is too high now that you resolved a leak?
my FCON ran flawlessly clean from the moment it would start to the moment I shut it off. I also kept the A/F learning on at all points under vacuum.
but then again, i guess that both times i tuned my car when i changed the setup i would drive around for 2-3 days with the laptop.... those kinds of hours would cost a fortune for an end user
perhaps your fuel pressure is too high now that you resolved a leak?
my FCON ran flawlessly clean from the moment it would start to the moment I shut it off. I also kept the A/F learning on at all points under vacuum.
but then again, i guess that both times i tuned my car when i changed the setup i would drive around for 2-3 days with the laptop.... those kinds of hours would cost a fortune for an end user
05-20-2006, 08:50 PM
#5
My only problem with the vpro is the lack of local tuners. But I must say, when Toshi Wakita came out (Oh, if anyone knows how to get in touch with Toshi Wakita/Blast Racing let me know - they moved shops and I lost his number...), Toshi had the vpro install and car started in less than 30 minutes. The car idles like stock even with my 1000cc injectors at 14.5 a/f... Drivability is great and it completely blows away my friends evo's with AEM systems.
There's must be something else that's causing your problems.
There's must be something else that's causing your problems.
05-20-2006, 09:00 PM
#6
i'm not really happy with the current EMS's out on the market
the emanage ultimate has a lot of shortcomings and isn't compatible with things like ignition amplifiers and turbo timers, can burn coils, and doesn't offer target timing still
the UTEC sounds great if you live near someone who really knows them inside out. I've been told by local tuners that have tuned WRX's with them that it's a pain to tune with and hook up, and is a little complex to learn and that they'd just rather use something else.
the Fcon no one local that I know of can tune it.
the Unichip doesn't offer any ability to permanently set timing or A/F
there's that new one that's recently been anounced is $4500 or whatever that's pretty high end, but i dunno, we'll see how that fares - kinda pricy
The AEM one seems to be the best possible option I'm thinking right now and lots of people are familiar with tuning AEM EMS's. Though it's not quite available yet and who knows what bugs it might have.
motec has always been an expensive option, but the trick as usual is finding a tuner who knows them. Locally, I know a shop that installs and tunes motecs, but they've done mostly either muscle cars or boats
Isn't APS supposed to be coming out with a standalone that's supposed to be awesome? At this point I'm going to wait and see if it comes out or how the AEM fares and use my emanage ultimate in the meantime
the emanage ultimate has a lot of shortcomings and isn't compatible with things like ignition amplifiers and turbo timers, can burn coils, and doesn't offer target timing still
the UTEC sounds great if you live near someone who really knows them inside out. I've been told by local tuners that have tuned WRX's with them that it's a pain to tune with and hook up, and is a little complex to learn and that they'd just rather use something else.
the Fcon no one local that I know of can tune it.
the Unichip doesn't offer any ability to permanently set timing or A/F
there's that new one that's recently been anounced is $4500 or whatever that's pretty high end, but i dunno, we'll see how that fares - kinda pricy
The AEM one seems to be the best possible option I'm thinking right now and lots of people are familiar with tuning AEM EMS's. Though it's not quite available yet and who knows what bugs it might have.
motec has always been an expensive option, but the trick as usual is finding a tuner who knows them. Locally, I know a shop that installs and tunes motecs, but they've done mostly either muscle cars or boats
Isn't APS supposed to be coming out with a standalone that's supposed to be awesome? At this point I'm going to wait and see if it comes out or how the AEM fares and use my emanage ultimate in the meantime
Last edited by sentry65; 05-20-2006 at 09:05 PM.
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05-21-2006, 09:09 AM
#8
Okay, after PLUGGING IN THE AIR TEMP SENSOR 
, which I guess I missed yesterday after putting everything back together, it's doing alot better. WOT is 11.0 to 11.3, but idle is still rich, at 11.5 to 12.0.
I'm thinking about having Mark come down here for a little fine-tuning on the street, and getting this thing nailed once and for all.
, which I guess I missed yesterday after putting everything back together, it's doing alot better. WOT is 11.0 to 11.3, but idle is still rich, at 11.5 to 12.0. I'm thinking about having Mark come down here for a little fine-tuning on the street, and getting this thing nailed once and for all.
05-21-2006, 09:32 AM
#10
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tuning issue
the f con v pro is by far the best and most capable system to come yet for the 350z .most people don't even utilize 30% of the system capabilities .so don't jump the gun just yet and assume its the f con that making the car runs rich
here is my recommendation and questions
1-has the car always ran rich since day one (day of install and tuning )
2- if your problem had started after the tune and install ,meaning the car ran good for a while and then developed the current problem , we need to find the root of the problem first (something changed or failed )
3-need to know the the brand of the injectors you are using
4-do you have a knock amp installed
5-is the feedback compensation option is turned on (close loop)
I'm very sure that fixing your problem is steel is going to be cheaper than changing engine management .and walk away form the best ems
call or pm of you have any question and well be more than happy to help you out
Sam
here is my recommendation and questions
1-has the car always ran rich since day one (day of install and tuning )
2- if your problem had started after the tune and install ,meaning the car ran good for a while and then developed the current problem , we need to find the root of the problem first (something changed or failed )
3-need to know the the brand of the injectors you are using
4-do you have a knock amp installed
5-is the feedback compensation option is turned on (close loop)
I'm very sure that fixing your problem is steel is going to be cheaper than changing engine management .and walk away form the best ems
call or pm of you have any question and well be more than happy to help you out
Sam
05-21-2006, 10:23 AM
#11
GTM, I sent you a pm.
I realize the FCON is great, but not when your tuner is 6.5 hours away and you need to change one little thing. It would be nice to be able to handle something like changing the air temp comp percentages myself, or bump up the a/f ratio at idle.
I realize the FCON is great, but not when your tuner is 6.5 hours away and you need to change one little thing. It would be nice to be able to handle something like changing the air temp comp percentages myself, or bump up the a/f ratio at idle.
05-22-2006, 10:39 AM
#12
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Chris I think your problem and mine might be that we got tuned with the new HKS software and there's something wrong with the correction tables. The FCON guys that had them installed and tuned by SGP prior to us are not seeing this problem. I was the first person to have the FCON tuned with the new software and I believe you were the 2nd.
I am having Scott's head mod bolts installed this week and then I am going to get Mark out here ASAP to re-tune my car.
I am having Scott's head mod bolts installed this week and then I am going to get Mark out here ASAP to re-tune my car.
05-22-2006, 01:10 PM
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I swear the car is cursed, chris must have broke alot of mirror when he was a little kid.....i run pretty rich, but lately idle is at 13.8 WOT 11.0 i think its the change in weather, my car ws tuned in this weather last year.
Are you shooting out fuel still?? I really dont think its the Fcon, probaly something really small that can be fixed in 2 mintes.....just gonna cost 5k....
Are you shooting out fuel still?? I really dont think its the Fcon, probaly something really small that can be fixed in 2 mintes.....just gonna cost 5k....
05-22-2006, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by failsafe306
I'm pretty sure it's the fcon, check this out.....
Temp is about 90 degrees today. WOT is normal now @ 11.5,11.6....cruising around in 4th gear going 45 is like 11.5 or 12.~......and idle is 11.5+
Temp is about 90 degrees today. WOT is normal now @ 11.5,11.6....cruising around in 4th gear going 45 is like 11.5 or 12.~......and idle is 11.5+
05-22-2006, 02:03 PM
#16
Yea I talked to Mark. He had my fcon all last week trying to get it right.
I don't understand why WOT is fine but all other rpms and loads are soooo damn rich. It was the same today at 90 as it was last night in the high 70's, so I think he may have got the temp correction right after all.
I'm going to have him come down here I think as well.
I don't understand why WOT is fine but all other rpms and loads are soooo damn rich. It was the same today at 90 as it was last night in the high 70's, so I think he may have got the temp correction right after all.
I'm going to have him come down here I think as well.
05-22-2006, 03:29 PM
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How hard is it to learn how to tune an EMS like the UTEC on your own? If you have a laptop, cables, z software (the stuff that was posted on here, in development).
05-22-2006, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Zrealsoon
How hard is it to learn how to tune an EMS like the UTEC on your own? If you have a laptop, cables, z software (the stuff that was posted on here, in development).
05-22-2006, 11:31 PM
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Recomndation
Failsafe
Here What I Well Do
1-confirm Fuel Press By Installing An Inline Fuel Gage ,fuel Press Should Not Be Over 45 PSI At Idle
2-with The Fuel Press Gage Installed ,turn igntion On To Energize The Fuel Pump ( Key On Engine Off ) Watch The Fuel Press ,fuel Press Should Rise To About 60 PSI And Then Drop To 52 PSI And Stay There If ,fuel Press Drops Completely Then We Have A Leakey Injector
3-also If Your Service Engine Soon Light Is No And You have A Cylinder Specific Miss Fire Code ,that Also Could Lead To Finding taht Bad Injector.
4-as Far As The F Con Closed Loop Operation .it Is Very Important To Set It In Way That The F Con Can Only Makes Small Percentage Changes To Fuel Map In Closed Loop .and It Should Reset It Self To Zero After Every Shut Down ,the Feedback Percentage Should Not Be Allowed To Do More Than 7 To 10 % Changes .this Is SIMILAR TO how THE OEM Ecu Operate Under Short And Long Fuel Trim Memory
5-if The Setting Of Feed Back Condensation Is Not Set As MENTIONED Above ,and For Any Reason Your Wide Band Fails ,the F Con Will Start Adding Fuel Base And BAD Input From The Wideband .so it could be a bad wide band after all .very common.
i hope this will help you out ,or at least set you in the right derction ,pm or call me if you have any further qutions
GT MOTORSPORTS
SAM
Here What I Well Do
1-confirm Fuel Press By Installing An Inline Fuel Gage ,fuel Press Should Not Be Over 45 PSI At Idle
2-with The Fuel Press Gage Installed ,turn igntion On To Energize The Fuel Pump ( Key On Engine Off ) Watch The Fuel Press ,fuel Press Should Rise To About 60 PSI And Then Drop To 52 PSI And Stay There If ,fuel Press Drops Completely Then We Have A Leakey Injector
3-also If Your Service Engine Soon Light Is No And You have A Cylinder Specific Miss Fire Code ,that Also Could Lead To Finding taht Bad Injector.
4-as Far As The F Con Closed Loop Operation .it Is Very Important To Set It In Way That The F Con Can Only Makes Small Percentage Changes To Fuel Map In Closed Loop .and It Should Reset It Self To Zero After Every Shut Down ,the Feedback Percentage Should Not Be Allowed To Do More Than 7 To 10 % Changes .this Is SIMILAR TO how THE OEM Ecu Operate Under Short And Long Fuel Trim Memory
5-if The Setting Of Feed Back Condensation Is Not Set As MENTIONED Above ,and For Any Reason Your Wide Band Fails ,the F Con Will Start Adding Fuel Base And BAD Input From The Wideband .so it could be a bad wide band after all .very common.
i hope this will help you out ,or at least set you in the right derction ,pm or call me if you have any further qutions
GT MOTORSPORTS
SAM