Well, I found out how much power the tranny can handle...
08-07-2006, 05:39 PM
#61
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Have these guys had a 350z Third gear on there hands? NO! I don't have any pics. Think of the gear as two rings, one being larger than the other. Then they are put together, one fitting inside the other.
Just take out third gear and you'll see what Iam talking about. We have done this two times allready, Nissan 350z gear desing is tottaly different from other gears that I have seen.
This is exactly the type of situation on why us Puerto Rican "know stuff" We just take things apart and study them. Your tranny is not working rigth? so you don't have anything to loose. besides, why would I make this up? as soon as you take the hole shaft were third goes mounted you'll se that you can move the gear with the shaft been still.
Just take out third gear and you'll see what Iam talking about. We have done this two times allready, Nissan 350z gear desing is tottaly different from other gears that I have seen.
This is exactly the type of situation on why us Puerto Rican "know stuff" We just take things apart and study them. Your tranny is not working rigth? so you don't have anything to loose. besides, why would I make this up? as soon as you take the hole shaft were third goes mounted you'll se that you can move the gear with the shaft been still.
Last edited by fito; 08-07-2006 at 05:46 PM.
08-07-2006, 05:51 PM
#63
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Originally Posted by fito
Have these guys had a 350z Third gear on there hands? NO! I don't have any pics. Think of the gear as two rings, one being larger than the other. Then they are put together, one fitting inside the other.
Just take out third gear and you'll see what Iam talking about. We have done this two times allready, Nissan 350z gear desing is tottaly different from other gears that I have seen.
This is exactly the type of situation on why us Puerto Rican "know stuff" We just take things apart and study them. Your tranny is not working rigth? so you don't have anything to loose. besides, why would I make this up? as soon as you take the hole shaft were third goes mounted you'll se that you can move the gear with the shaft been still.
Just take out third gear and you'll see what Iam talking about. We have done this two times allready, Nissan 350z gear desing is tottaly different from other gears that I have seen.
This is exactly the type of situation on why us Puerto Rican "know stuff" We just take things apart and study them. Your tranny is not working rigth? so you don't have anything to loose. besides, why would I make this up? as soon as you take the hole shaft were third goes mounted you'll se that you can move the gear with the shaft been still.
thanks again..
so any comment on the welding? I was told that the hardened steel cannot be welded? any special welder???
TODD
ps:
here's a pic of 3rd gear...where do you weld?
Last edited by 350zDCalb; 08-07-2006 at 06:02 PM.
08-07-2006, 06:01 PM
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I'll check with my welder. If you like you can call me @787-398-5991, thats my cel phone. It migth be easier by phone. you can call me rigth now if you like.
08-07-2006, 06:24 PM
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oh! didn't see you posted a pic! You see the thin gear goes attached to the big gear, on a good third gear, you cannot move these two gear separate. On your's you can move the two separate from each other. I called my welder, and he said not to weld 360 degrees as I told you because heat is going to deform the gear just do 3 or 4 small weld around, and it has to heli arc weld, as I told you, once you take your gear out, you'll see it clearly.
Last edited by fito; 08-07-2006 at 06:29 PM.
08-07-2006, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by fito
Have these guys had a 350z Third gear on there hands? NO! I don't have any pics. Think of the gear as two rings, one being larger than the other. Then they are put together, one fitting inside the other.
Just take out third gear and you'll see what Iam talking about. We have done this two times allready, Nissan 350z gear desing is tottaly different from other gears that I have seen.
This is exactly the type of situation on why us Puerto Rican "know stuff" We just take things apart and study them. Your tranny is not working rigth? so you don't have anything to loose. besides, why would I make this up? as soon as you take the hole shaft were third goes mounted you'll se that you can move the gear with the shaft been still.
Just take out third gear and you'll see what Iam talking about. We have done this two times allready, Nissan 350z gear desing is tottaly different from other gears that I have seen.
This is exactly the type of situation on why us Puerto Rican "know stuff" We just take things apart and study them. Your tranny is not working rigth? so you don't have anything to loose. besides, why would I make this up? as soon as you take the hole shaft were third goes mounted you'll se that you can move the gear with the shaft been still.
now It is important to make the join before the heat treatment takes place. The reason for this is that when a gear is case hardened during heat treatment a case enriched in carbon is generated which cannot be welded and normally cracks and more important the weld will not be hardened.
So it can be concluded that if a gear comprising of 2 sections is separated, it is most likely to have been a defective weld or the weld penetration was insufficient to transfer the power pushed through it. So just rewelding may fix it temporally or be a band aid fix but will never be as good as the original weld even if it failed. all this info is to clearly demonstrate that welding gears together (where applicable) is not reliable in a transmission and defiantly not recommended .but the main point I 'm trying to make is that the 3rd gear on the 350z trans is not made from two welded peaces ,maybe your thinking of a different transmission ,maybe ?
Sam
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Last edited by Goerge@GTMotors; 08-07-2006 at 08:28 PM.
08-07-2006, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by GTM
ok several transmissions are on the bench completely disassembled ,and I hate to break your heart but the 3rd gear in the 350z transmission is not made out of two peaces like you are stating .and that is a fact .now In some situations due to the design, gearbox constrains or due to manufacture limitations a gear needs to be manufactured in 2 pieces .This is common in synchromesh gears .when the synchro teeth and cone are joined to the gear. This join is normally done in 2 ways, 1 way is welding and another is spline fit. The most common of the 2 is welding, where the 2 pieces are fused together with an electron beam or friction join. Fusing means no filler and the 2 pieces are melted together at the join area.
now It is important to make the join before the heat treatment takes place. The reason for this is that when a gear is case hardened during heat treatment a case enriched in carbon is generated which cannot be welded and normally cracks and more important the weld will not be hardened.
So it can be concluded that if a gear comprising of 2 sections is separated, it is most likely to have been a defective weld or the weld penetration was insufficient to transfer the power pushed through it. So just rewelding may fix it temporally or be a band aid fix but will never be as good as the original weld even if it failed. all this info is to clearly demonstrate that welding gears together (where applicable) is not reliable in a transmission and defiantly not recommended .but the main point I 'm trying to make is that the 3rd gear on the 350z trans is not made from two welded peaces ,maybe your thinking of a different transmission ,maybe ?
Sam
GT MOTORSPORTS
now It is important to make the join before the heat treatment takes place. The reason for this is that when a gear is case hardened during heat treatment a case enriched in carbon is generated which cannot be welded and normally cracks and more important the weld will not be hardened.
So it can be concluded that if a gear comprising of 2 sections is separated, it is most likely to have been a defective weld or the weld penetration was insufficient to transfer the power pushed through it. So just rewelding may fix it temporally or be a band aid fix but will never be as good as the original weld even if it failed. all this info is to clearly demonstrate that welding gears together (where applicable) is not reliable in a transmission and defiantly not recommended .but the main point I 'm trying to make is that the 3rd gear on the 350z trans is not made from two welded peaces ,maybe your thinking of a different transmission ,maybe ?
Sam
GT MOTORSPORTS
If the two parts are welded or friction whatever is not the important thing, its that they DO come apart because of the stress. WE HAVE WELDED THE GEARS IN TWO DIFFERENT TRANNYS, it's not a theory its a fact. It's been 10 months since MY tranny was fixed this way and the car has seen the track so many time I can't remenber, and it's a 11.0@125mph G35! if it's a band-aid, IT'S A HELL OF A BAND-AID! The other car has 4 months with the fix with no problem. We don't base our shop on theory, we try thing out on our cars! If you don't like the fix, just buy another factory gear and break it again in 4 months, is as easy as that. I offerd a simple fix for 350zDCalb, you guys chose to do it or not ,easy.
350zDCalb: could you please take pictures of the gear as soon as you take it apart and post them?
Last edited by fito; 08-07-2006 at 09:22 PM.
08-07-2006, 10:34 PM
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[QUOTE=fito]first you say it's not made out of two parts but then say "due to manufacture limitations a gear needs to be manufactured in 2 pieces" ?!?!
No I did not say that ,what I said is( In some situations due to the design, gearbox constrains or due to manufacture limitations a gear needs to be manufactured in 2 pieces )
meaning in some transmissions not the the 350z .so sorry for not being more clear ,did not mean to get mad .now again the third gear is not a two peace gear meaning it is not welded together from the factory in the 350z box .and personally I would feel more conferrable putting the oem gear back in the trans before welding it .been in the in transmission business since 1992 and it is not a common practice or an industry standard to weld gears ,and it just happened that we also manufacture gear sets as well,
Sam
GT MOTORSPORTS
No I did not say that ,what I said is( In some situations due to the design, gearbox constrains or due to manufacture limitations a gear needs to be manufactured in 2 pieces )
meaning in some transmissions not the the 350z .so sorry for not being more clear ,did not mean to get mad .now again the third gear is not a two peace gear meaning it is not welded together from the factory in the 350z box .and personally I would feel more conferrable putting the oem gear back in the trans before welding it .been in the in transmission business since 1992 and it is not a common practice or an industry standard to weld gears ,and it just happened that we also manufacture gear sets as well,
Sam
GT MOTORSPORTS
08-07-2006, 11:08 PM
#70
Sam,
How is that crank going? Got it installed in any cars yet?
Regarding 3rd gear, it sounds like both of you have looked at the third gear so isnt it possible that through the numerous revisions of gearboxes that some have two piece gears and other dont?
How is that crank going? Got it installed in any cars yet?
Regarding 3rd gear, it sounds like both of you have looked at the third gear so isnt it possible that through the numerous revisions of gearboxes that some have two piece gears and other dont?
Last edited by mchapman; 08-07-2006 at 11:23 PM.
08-08-2006, 07:43 AM
#73
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Originally Posted by Alberto
Sam-is GTM planning on making gear sets for Z tranny's? We sure have guys that could use them...
gear set is available, thread will be up soon...
08-08-2006, 10:05 AM
#75
From Ask Sarah on . . .
http://www.nissanperformancemagazine.com/
A discussion of 350Z transmissions.
The Nissan Service Manual for the 350Z lists two manual transmission models: CD008 and CD009. Both models have identical gear ratios. Differences include the size of the clutch disk and which gears have double or triple-cone synchronizers. Can you tell me why there are two transmission models and which model Zs received which model transmission?
Are the transmissions interchangeable? And can an aftermarket 250 mm clutch disk be used with a model CD009 transmission?
Karl Hutchinson
Williamsville, NY
Nissan continued to "perfect" the transmissions for the 350Z and G35 well after the cars were available on the market. There were some issues and updates to the tranny after release. The different tranny models follow sequential order, starting with 32010-CD000 which was used until production date October 2002. A few CD001 and CD002 models were issued after that. CD003 was used through the end of 2002, then 004 through 008. CD009 is the most recent release. This does not necessarily mean there were a lot of changes between each number though. For example, Nissan will issue a new part number if they start using a new vendor to keep the suppliers straight for any warranty work or issues.
350Z Synchro's
All tranny versions will work on any Z or G35 and clutch disks are all interchangeable as well. Double and triple cone synchronizers reduce the operating force of the shift level. The earlier models typically had double cone synchronizers in 1st and 2nd gears with no triple cone synchronizers. The later models were usually equipped with double cone synchronizers in 1st, 3rd and 4th gears and triple cone synchronizers in 2nd gear. The 009 does not include the pedal assembly, flywheel or pressure plate like some of the previous versions did, as Nissan determined they weren't necessary to replace. Depending on your dealership, if you've had your tranny replaced, you could have any of the recent releases as they don't always have the same numbers in stock and are not required to use the most recent model. However, the 007's and up haven't seemed to have many problems.
A discussion of 350Z transmissions.
The Nissan Service Manual for the 350Z lists two manual transmission models: CD008 and CD009. Both models have identical gear ratios. Differences include the size of the clutch disk and which gears have double or triple-cone synchronizers. Can you tell me why there are two transmission models and which model Zs received which model transmission?
Are the transmissions interchangeable? And can an aftermarket 250 mm clutch disk be used with a model CD009 transmission?
Karl Hutchinson
Williamsville, NY
Nissan continued to "perfect" the transmissions for the 350Z and G35 well after the cars were available on the market. There were some issues and updates to the tranny after release. The different tranny models follow sequential order, starting with 32010-CD000 which was used until production date October 2002. A few CD001 and CD002 models were issued after that. CD003 was used through the end of 2002, then 004 through 008. CD009 is the most recent release. This does not necessarily mean there were a lot of changes between each number though. For example, Nissan will issue a new part number if they start using a new vendor to keep the suppliers straight for any warranty work or issues.
350Z Synchro's
All tranny versions will work on any Z or G35 and clutch disks are all interchangeable as well. Double and triple cone synchronizers reduce the operating force of the shift level. The earlier models typically had double cone synchronizers in 1st and 2nd gears with no triple cone synchronizers. The later models were usually equipped with double cone synchronizers in 1st, 3rd and 4th gears and triple cone synchronizers in 2nd gear. The 009 does not include the pedal assembly, flywheel or pressure plate like some of the previous versions did, as Nissan determined they weren't necessary to replace. Depending on your dealership, if you've had your tranny replaced, you could have any of the recent releases as they don't always have the same numbers in stock and are not required to use the most recent model. However, the 007's and up haven't seemed to have many problems.
08-08-2006, 01:44 PM
#76
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Originally Posted by fito
So that should explains! 
explain what? GTM has been working on gear sets for some time, so they have an excellent understanding how the tranny works...I hope I can weld my 3rd gear and fix it, you state that you have done it twice, I thanked you several times for chiming in, sincerely greatful for your imput...
but just wondering why there is such conflicting info
I have a new tranny that will be here in 2 days, but I would like to open my 3rd gear broken tranny and see what the deal is...
TODD
08-08-2006, 01:52 PM
#77
Gringott, the transmissions and various versions are all interchangeable. A lot of people have upgraded or had their tranny's replaces the latest and greatest Version 9. This is the one I am running, its is a MARKED improvement over the previous designs. We'll see how long it last.
Fito, what kind of gear oil are you running in manual gearboxes? We are exclusively using Motul 75-90W 100% synthetic ester based oil. Improves the the shifting dramatically, IMHO.
Fito, what kind of gear oil are you running in manual gearboxes? We are exclusively using Motul 75-90W 100% synthetic ester based oil. Improves the the shifting dramatically, IMHO.
08-08-2006, 02:02 PM
#78
damn it!! oh well. i am the kind of guy that will break my tranny, rip it out, weld every gear and see what happens. i think fito is being straight up and i appreciate that, i will be breakin my stuff as soon as i put this damn clutch in!! early next week it is looking like!!
not sure how i feel about the person about to sell gears saying that welding it wont fix it... maybe a biased opinion. JMHO
not sure how i feel about the person about to sell gears saying that welding it wont fix it... maybe a biased opinion. JMHO
08-08-2006, 06:02 PM
#79
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Originally Posted by Audible Mayhem
not sure how i feel about the person about to sell gears saying that welding it wont fix it... maybe a biased opinion. JMHO
Sam has one of the sweetest operations in the country, which gives him access to several "experts" in the industry (he, himself is an expert, but when he doesn't know something 100%, he has backup)...Sam researched this in detail over the past couple of days (as he explained to me yesterday) and openly admitted to me, several times,that he doesn't know everything...and if the gear truely is welded from the factory, than that was news to him...So, he set out to find out how the tranny is designed from Nissan...he told me that after he talked to several of his sources (one of whom is an engineer/GTM partner that designed the gear set for the vq35, after studying the vq35 350z tranny in detail), they all concurred that there is no such weld in the transmission...
If welding it works,as Fito stated, I am all for it...I am not trying to insult anyone or come across as ungreatful for Fito sharing his info...this is a technical discussion, let's keep it going, keeping our egos and financial interests aside...
let's talk fact so we can all have a better understanding of how this machine is designed
-TODD
Last edited by 350zDCalb; 08-08-2006 at 06:05 PM.
08-08-2006, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
Gringott, the transmissions and various versions are all interchangeable. A lot of people have upgraded or had their tranny's replaces the latest and greatest Version 9. This is the one I am running, its is a MARKED improvement over the previous designs. We'll see how long it last.
Fito, what kind of gear oil are you running in manual gearboxes? We are exclusively using Motul 75-90W 100% synthetic ester based oil. Improves the the shifting dramatically, IMHO.
Fito, what kind of gear oil are you running in manual gearboxes? We are exclusively using Motul 75-90W 100% synthetic ester based oil. Improves the the shifting dramatically, IMHO.
Sharif, on our last tranny, we were getting syncro problems when power shifting. so we whent and put engine oil (10-30) (hondA STYLE) and it then shifted perfectly! and it still is.