I'm considering going with the TN ST kit. I like what I see from it.
I'm planning on buying a tuner kit, and UTEC with wideband.
Of course injectors and then a Walbro 255 pump.
I was wondering #1 if I can run the kit (by a wastegate spring change or a boost controller) at 6 psi daily?
and
#2 If I'd be running 6 psi, would I really need a return fuel system right away?

I just ask because after the UTEC and tune, I might be spent for cash (not broke, but at the point where it just wouldn't be smart to spend even more cash... in case I need it elsewhere in my life) so I would want to buy the return fuel kit later and turn up the boost once it's installed?

Thanks

 

IMO you don't need a return system at all, using the fpr just complicates tuning. I think you can get away without one up to 600-650whp.

Get the UTEC and some 440cc injectors and you'll be good to go. Deatschewerks injectors plug right into the stock harness for yer info

 

I only wanna make like 400-450whp on 93. I think that shouldn't be too hard from the numbers I've seen. Average seems to be about 425ish.
So if I can get away without a return fuel system to make that... Great deal.
Thanks for the heads-up on the injectors.
So does anyone know what the wastegate spring is out of the box from TN? 6 psi? 8? 9? etc?

 

actually, 400whp is pretty good if running 8-9psi. If you're running 6, you'll get nowhere near 400whp, let alone 425.

the spring in the internal gate is 8psi.

 

This is no where near the average for these kits. Expect 370-380whp at 8-8.5psi.

A return fuel system does nothing to gain power, so don't expect anything from it. It's just an added measure to assure steady fuel pressure which assists in tuning...

 

Right. I meant like I wanted to make close 400whp @8-9psi.
Not at 6. But I figured I'd want to run it at 6 psi when I'm not in need of excess power, just cruising etc.
I'd think 6 psi would be about 340-365whp.

From what I've seen the stock block seems to be safe to like 425-450whp. So if I can make like 410whp on 9 psi (hypothetically) I'll be happy. Maybe I'll run 9.5-10psi to make a little more, it'll all depend.

 

I don't. I'm not new to F/I. I'm just new to 350Zs to a point and new to this specific kit. I just wanted to know if I'd need the Return System to be safe to make 400whp or so, maybe a bit more.

 

What are you gaining by running 6psi? The kit is safe @ 8PSI. Lowering the boost doesn't make sense. Neither does not installing the return fuel system to save $1000.

I hope an exhaust is in your plans because you won't make 410rwhp without it.

A boost controller can't lower your boost below wg spring pressure.

Do you have plans for a clutch as well?

To see anything like 450rwhp you will be needing larger injectors than the 440's in your plans since boost decreases the flow of the injector. The fuel pressure has to overcome boost pressure.

What wheels and tires are you going to run? You will need a 305 tire on a 10.5 inch rim.

FYI..... with a Topspeed 3"exhaust, a lightweight clutch/flywheel, 440 injectors @ 9.5 psi I made 410rwhp. The injectors were maxed @ 80%. This was with a reurn fuel system. You shouldn't run an injector past 80% duty cycle. Oh.... btw. that was also the final days of my stock motor. I snapped a connecting rod.

With the stock exhaust my car made 360rwhp @ 8.5 psi on the kit as it comes from Turbonetics.

JET

 

It makes sense one fuel consumption, longevity of the engine, etc.
I asked if I should actually buy a return fuel system, I'll spend the money if I believe it's necessary... I was asking if it truly needs to be done at all. And last time I checked $1000 was a lot of money. So if there's no need to spend $1000, why spend it?

Usually with turbocharging thats a given. As I said, I'm not new to aftermarket boost, I'm only new to THE 350Z and the TN kit. I figured most people would have figured out I'd do the supporting mods like exhaust and a wideband,etc. I was trying to find out if a Return kit was indeed a supporting mods at this power level or only necessary at higher whp levels.

EXACTLY. That's why I asked what the wastegate spring put the pressure at on the kit out of the box. I.E. If I wanted to run 6 psi, would I need a different wastegate spring.


Already have a SPEC Stage 3+ INSTALLED - good for 660flywheel tq, more than I need.

Did you read at all dude? I said I planned to buy upgraded injectors AND a Walbro 255. And Boost pressure doesn't directly decrease the flow of injectors... The injectors duty cycle, set by the ECU (or UTEC MAP in my case), set by the tuner does.


I have 18x8.5in wheels up front and 18x.95 in the rear with 265/35 in front and 295/35 in the rear. They'll be fine.

I bet your tuner made that power, not you. Based on what you said here, you're understanding of turbocharging is a little above amatuer. I know you shouldn't run beyond 80% IDC, because it tends to isolate the injector and keeps it pretty much open all the time, not opening and closing - open all the time can cause premature injector failure. I'm not new to this, as I said. Also, if you lost a con rod at 9.5 PSI... DO YOU REALLY THINK THE KIT IS SAFE WITH ONLY 1.5 PSI LESS BOOST????

Thanks for trying to make me look like a newb, post count != knowledge sir. I believe you and I are proof of this.

 

Funny, cause I've been running 380-400whp at 9psi for almost 9k miles now for over a year on the 380cc injectors and no fuel return system. My car is still running strong. Constant fuel pressure can be achieved without a fuel return line, people in this forum just have some huge hangup due to some things that have been perpetuated in the past. Take a look at what JWT is doing with their kit for more proof of this.

Anyway, this issue is a dead horse so we shouldn't start flogging it again.

If you're wanting to upgrade the kit, just wait a little longer for turbonetic's upgrade 1.5/2 kits. You will save yourself time, money, and many headaches with just a little patience.

 

Another thing is that 295's in the rear won't be enough for that kind of power. I cut my 285's loose with 400whp like they're pizza cutters. The rear end on this car can be a bit squirrely even with suspension work and drag radials. Most traction issues with FI on this car are solved or aleviated through changing your driving style.

No FI kit is "safe" on this motor unless it's built. It doesn't matter which it is or how much boost you're running. You can cut down on risk by being reserved and taking precautions. Running this kit on a stock car at stock boost settings should minimize risk, but there's always the chance of blowing the stock motor.


And, once again, I will suggest waiting for Turbonetics to release their stage kits. People have wasted a lot of money around here just because they lack patience.

 

Looks like you and chimmike have a little better idea. I talked to him a little thru PM.
I'm starting to believe the return fuel conversion isn't necessary, on many cars it's not. The only car I know of that does this regularly in the aftermarket is the 03-04 Cobras - and thats only when they go above 600whp with a Whipple or Kenne Bell blower (as opposed to the stock blower).

Whats supposed to be in the 1.5/2 kits?
I ask because I was figuring on doing the following (besides what I listed above).

UTEC with tuner (includes the wideband)
TN Single
440s/550s (depending)
Walbro 255 fp
Oil temp, EGT, Boost gauges
Boost controller (probably just a profec - or maybe use whatever goes with the UTEC)

 

I'd be using the 295s on the street only. And I don't mess around on the street much (too much drama with police and such in the past). But I plan on running Mickey Thompson ET Streets at the Track. So I think me keeping my usual calm driving style and switching to ET Streets at the track should work fine. If it doesn't I switch to ET Drags and skinnies

Thanks again man

 

Stage 1.5 (full version):
* Turbonetics 60-1/Stage V ceramic Ball Bearing turbo
* Turbonetics Evolution wastegate
* Turbonetics Raptor BOV
* Spearco Front Mount Intercooler
* Walbro 255 lph fuel pump
* 630cc injectors
* Fuel Return system
* Unichip Q with flux power display and closed loop boost control and multimap switch. Plug and play and pre-tuned.
* All piping, including black chrome intake piping.
* Case of Turbonetics TS-1 synth oil
* 12k mile / 12 month no fault no hassle warranty on the entire kit.
* Optional water/meth injection kit
* Power goal: 420-450 RWHP at XXPSI of boost (up to the customer and tuner)

 

As discussed in other threads, Turbonetics is in the process of final testing on the 1.5 and 2 kits. The last I've heard, we should definitely have something by SEMA.

 

No prob. I should be getting some ET Streets in the coming months as well.

With any FI setup on this car on street tires you will need to feather (slip) the clutch to gain traction on the launch. This is mainly what I'm referring to.

 

Oh, yeah I figured that's what you were getting at. I think the best will be setting the 2 step on the UTEC with a set of ET streets/Drags

Sounds good. I'll be looking to do it around that time anyways.

 

Hey Speedesign... thanks for making the "Special quote of the day" list.

JET

 

No problem. You realize if you hit just turn up the boost, unless the car is properly tuned, it's just gonna go lean , cause detonation and maybe... I dunno, throw a con rod? My point was that there IS indeed a correlation between the two, but it's not as simple as you make it.

I find it funny how you make an entire post (about a page long) to try and make me look uneducated, I debunk everythink you have to say (with a minor slip up - if you even want to call it that), and that's all you can come up with. Good job, your e-***** is bigger than mine. And for that...

 

JWT uses a 6:1 FMU to raise fuel pressure...very different approach to using a return fuel system.

For TN at stock boost...or any kit at stock boost 6-7psi, you can probably get away without any type of rising rate FPR setup. There are a lot of ways to skin a cat. A complete return fuel system is the best way...but others can work.