I am sure I going to get some flack about this post and that volumes has been written on the subject, but I did some searches and I was left wanting. However, if you are looking for a what turbo kit is best post, this aint it!!! It is rather a question of what kit would be best for what application.

Like so many others I am saving up money for a turbo kit and technically I dot even know why!! I know that I can get a turbo kit that will give me 350 RWHP, but that really does not meen anything. For instance, I was checking out Top Gear testing an Evo with the biggest factory turbo. They drove it around the track racing a Lamborghini, and it had no problem keeping up, perhaps even going faster, but on the quarter mile, and in traffic, the lag was enormous! Doing the quarter without building boost from take off it had a hard time beating a civic!

Now I bought a track model because my local car club does track days every so often, but I find that the older more established guys and their Porsche's are passing me without neccesarily beeing better drivers then me. Which brings me back to the point where I realize that I want FI!!

Turbonetics say:
Turbonetics' Nissan 350Z turbo system is the first and only production single turbo system available. Utilizing our proprietary ceramic ball bearing turbocharger, this system outperforms all twin turbocharger kits currently on the market.

So what does that mean? Will a single turbo not have more lag then TT, and thus be less streetable? For what applications would this system be better then a TT. Are they saying this because of price, ease of install, or HP?

Likewise there is a huge array of TT kits available, and in most of the posts you will see ambiguous comments like "all kits have different specs and you will have to find the one that fits you." Perhaps some of you gentlemen that have experiences with different set ups could elaborate a bit more to try to find out what system is good for what application, as the main interest in the post I have seen is a meer question of HP! I don't care about HP I care about what is fast on the track and fun on the street! Now I know that from this comment I would get a reply like "Well different tracks need different set ups so, all kits have different specs and you will have to find the one that fits you." Please don't reply with this and rather tell me what set up you have experienced worked best with what type of tracks


And where do superchargers come in? Most people are running turbo set ups, but if you believe the SC vendors one would think everyone should be driving superchargers! Power through the entire rev range, extremely safe on the motor, easy to install, easy to upgrade, etc etc. What are the downsides of SC compared to turbo? Is it that the potential for more and more power is not there?

With the short tracks and few twisties around here I know that more then 400RWHP would be overkill for me, (Probably for most forum members actually) So instead of the huge horsepower perhaps I should go with a kit that offers driveabillity instead? But what kit offers that?!!

 

check this out it has alot of info
https://my350z.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=182

 

You've kind of got to read between the lines on this one. Saying it "outperforms" the other kits on the market means that it will, on average, put down more power on a completely out of the box tune and at stock boost levels. The kit was made to run that kind of power out of the box on a stock car without changing any other components. This is the main advantage of the Turbonetics ST, meaning that it's good for moderate power for someone who doesn't want to change the setup in any way.

The TT kits on the market generally come running lower boost and have a tunable EMS. With tuning, the TT kits can easily match or beat the out of the box performance of the Turbonetics ST kit. It all really depends on what you want.

 

Power throughout the rev range... haha. Yeah, I guess if you only like hitting full boost at redline. IMO the centrifugal supercharger kits on the market are a safe bet, but they just don't produce enough torque to really put a strain on engine components and connecting rods to cause issues like the turbo kits do. Current oots blower setups such as the stillen supercharger give a nice torque kick off the line, but really fall flat on their face in the upper rpms.

For instance, if you compare peak torque levels on a SC, ST, and TT cars that are putting down 400 peak whp, you will see a huge difference. Generally, the SC car will be putting down about 320-330ft/lbs, the ST car about 390-425ft/lbs, and the TT car around 370-390ft/lbs.

The turbo cars will be "faster" cars because they deliver more early midrange power and torque, and continue to pull throughout the top end. The supercharged cars will have linear power delivery, but won't be putting down any major power until later in the powerband, and will also be lacking any sort of torque kick that really slams you back in your seat off the line (like a turbo setup). For this reason, turbo kits also suffer much larger traction issues. So, pick your poison.

 

Thanks for that Chucquison I guess it does not matter how much you try to say that you are looking for unique information somebody always has to play the "use the search" card or perhaps it is because they do not know anything.

Taurran thank you very much for your input! So running a TT setup basically means you can get the same HP on less boost, but it will not produce the torque that a ST kit has. Is it safet to assume though that the ST kit will have more lag then a TT application?

 

Some TT set-ups will produce square numbers, meaning 400whp, 400+ft/lbs. You see more ST's producing TQ numbers closer or surprassing the HP numbers but TT's can certainly produce that as well. And yes, psi per psi, Twins will make more power. In my TT set-up, a 2psi increase in boost netted me 60whp more! You will never find a ST for the Z that could do that. The ST has slightly more lag now that I have owned a TN and Greddy set-up. To tell you the truth the ST "lag" isnt apparent until you drive a TT set-up, but it is by no means bad, when racing in a ST you will always be in full boost. What I would suggest-to keep people fro mmaking the "mistake" I did is this. If you are planning on running stock block as long as possible, OR if you blew it and rebuilt wouldnt mind maxing a TN stage 1 @ 450-500whp, then do the ST, its great. If you would want bigger power later though, do the TT set-up. Of course this is what I recommend now, in 2 weeks when TN releases info on the Stage 2 kit for the Z, that advice could change

 

Octogoogles... what kind of name is that? Oh yeah I gave that to ya... lol. Interesting read in general and I am sure it has been debated many times. I'd like to change the direction of this thread only slighty by asking what is the most relialbe and cheapest to maintain system? Yeah lets start with that...

 

To maintain what system? First off you need to change your mindset, because cheap + reliable will never go together when discussing any FI on an NA car....

 

ok I see where you are comming from. Let me try to rephrase. What system makes the most stable amount of power and keeps driveability reliable. The only reason I ask is that I used to have an S14 with an SR20DET. I had a heavy foot and a twitchy boost controller finger. Ah to be young and stupid. When my car was running it was very fast, but it never seemed to be up for long. I'm looking for something that is fast and relialbe that i dont plan to make adjustments to once it is tuned. This is broad but maybe some more questions about it could narrow things down.

 

everyone will usually tell you what they have is the best

people who used to have brand x kit will say it's really great until they switch to something else. Then they'll say that's the greatest kit. Many people usually start with a SC then move to a big hp TT setup.

The centrifugal SC's always have about 70-90 less peak torque than the ST or TT kits. There's other ways to make a car faster but they're never as glamorous as having huge torque numbers.

when you start lowering the compression a lot and using bigger turbos and making really big power, the low end power starts to suffer. If you look at STI dynos - for instance http://www.dynocomp.com/subaru.php?view=subaru, you'll notice the later dynos where the turbo was upgraded to a bigger one, that the low end really starts sucking while the mid/high end spike up crazy high and does so later in the powerband. For a mostly street driven car, it's almost worth it not to upgrade to a bigger turbo so you have more power where you can use it daily.

SC's are harder to get big power out of - the vortech and ATI are the best bet with wanting to upgrade your power later on. Stillen is supposed to be eventually coming out with a blower upgrade that might prove worthwhile. SC's will run the engine bay cooler and not thrust as much torque into the engine and be cheap to install. For some people they're great, but for others, they want the turbo rush.

 

Octogoogles what are you trying to go for with your FI setup?

 

Fast and Reliable = Built motor---> $10,000.00 +

 

Like Taurran said, the SC creates less torque so it doesn't put as much strain on the engine components thus creating less problems that the turbos can cause do to more torque.

If you want the better reliability, then just get the vortech supercharger + great tune and leave it at that. You will get roughly 370- 400 WHP safely.

I'm not saying you're engine will be totally fine, because boosting any N/A car that wasn't meant to be boosted is risky. Hope you find what you're looking for.

 

Thanks for the usefull input guys!

Snay I tried calling you yesterday, but could not get ya. I would like to get around 400 hp with equal amount of tourque on a "slightly" built engine.

Basically I thought TN single turbo was the way to go, but I could never really find any information telling me what kit would be better for what aplications, thus this post. SGP racing here in Houston has a great deal on the Greddy TT system and they offer builds that would be appropriate for the amount of horsepower I am looking at. (Spending 7k on an engine build to run 400hp seems excessive) And they have had reliable results with this so it made me consider that as well.

I want to focus on usable power for a track and street setting keeping in mind that excessive power on the car will not neccesarily produce the fastest laps. At least not on the tracks I get to play on

 

Regardless of what kit you get, just always be aware that eventually your **** is gonna break.....As for how soon, your Boost/Tune/Driving style will be the major deciding factor.

 

turbo ftw

 

This is turning into a yet another if you turbo your car will blow up thread so let me tie things together.

So far what we have discussed is the following.

Super charger systems are great in that you get relatively high HP output, but does not provide the TQ that a turbo kit can produce. Vortech, ATI and eventually Stillen can be upgraded to run higher HP, but at the cost of putting your engine on the line. The power is linnear, but perhaps not the most usable.

Verdict: If you are looking for a HP gain and an ok raise in tourqe with a minimum risk (as far as FI goes) to the Engine then a standard system with a good tune is your bet.

Single Turbo Systems produce relatively high output of HP but it's strength is in the TQ you can achieve with the system. Upgrading into higher HP/TQ specs comes at a cost of turbo lag and reduces the streetabillity of the car. Reliabillity with ST is questionable but can be securely achieved through a built motor due to high TQ numbers. TN is about (we hope) to release their new stage 2 kit which will ad high HP upgrade options for the future. The ST turbo kit is also easy to install which might be an added bonus for the handy man/woman.

Verdict: ST seems to be a great system if you have a goal under 500hp (with current ST offerings) and the high tourqe would be the number one sales point of this system. ST on a stock engine is risky as detonation is seen even on low HP tunes.

Twin Turbo Systems: Twin Turbo systems can produce higher horespower on lower PSI increasing the potential for HP without running into the lag problems one can incurr with the ST kits. The kits can be tuned to achieve higher TQ, but we have yet to dive into this question. TT setups seem to be the most volatile systems, but offers the largest upgrade potential for soaring HP numbers. Installation is complicated and will require the help of a car mechanic. Turning up the boost on any TT system will require a built engine, but even then you are never safe.

Verdict: The TT systems are great if you have the money for the initial purchase and installation, and it also yields the biggest upgrade potential if the goal is extremely high HP numbers. Will probably not produce the TQ out of the box of a ST system.

Loose ends:
Alberto mentioned that some TT setups provide square numbers HP/TQ. Anyone know which systems would do this and how? Is this achieved at the cost of other factors?

Aggain to prevent this thread turning into a repost: For a write up on pros and cons of different turbo kits see http://cfzclub.com/FI_Write_UP.html or the thread https://my350z.com/forum/forced-induction/202797-forced-induction-kits-updated.html I am trying to focus more on the differences of these kits in terms of HP to TQ and how this translates into driving performance not just dyno performance.

If yo have experiences with more than one Kit perhaps you can shine some light on the difference between the two while keeping an unbiast tone?

 

I've seen it, but it really seems to be a circumstantial thing of dyno vs dyno. Many of the high tq TT setups I've seen have been on dynos that are very generous when it comes to torque (I think we know what I'm talking about).

I'm not saying it isn't possible or true, just that the ST setups produce higher torque on lower boost setups. The TT kits, with their huge efficiency range, still are best if you want to run a big power setup on a built block. I'm still waiting to see what Turbonetics can pull out of their stage 2 setup.