charged

iTrader: (1)

I wonder what I would the 1/4 in. I have 438rwhp @ 350rwtq. My car is a heavy 3450 (zr) What do you guys think? My buddy has a 06 Vette with h-pipe and exhaust. His best was 12.9, can I beat him?

ZU L8R

iTrader: (84)

440's, headers, test pipes, and exhaust.

chimmike

iTrader: (7)

if his best was a 12.9 he's not driving that well, haha. that being said, you should be able to take him.

chimmike

iTrader: (7)

440s?


those are some pretty helpful supporting mods heh

FrickU

Depends on the turbo kit. Some start boosting at 2300 rpm's, and others start boosting at 4+

chimmike

iTrader: (7)

no VQ turbo kit that I know of starts boosting past 4krpm

most all of them have full boost in the 3krpm range

Alberto

iTrader: (14)

That translates to "I cant launch a car with TQ so I'll play my S/C's weakness as a benefit"

How is that possible? If a Vortech is easier to launch and has equal top end to a turbo Z your telling me the turbo's midrange alone makes it .5 faster on average down the 1/4?mmmm---> Turbo's win from the beginning of the race to when you let off in defeat.

TQ doesnt cause head lift.

Stock Vortech means a Vortech not tuned. Please show me one 12.5 second time slip from an untuned, stock pulley Vortech with exhaust/plenum running mid 12's. Ive been on this forum for years and never seen it. Best Ive seen for a bolt-on stock map Vortech is 12.9 @ 108mph. Average is low 13's @ 110mph or less....

Your 100% correct, why dont S/C guys spend $500 on wheels/tires for the track and prove these theories they like to post around the boards?

For the record Im not bashing S/C's different strokes for different follks, but the way you play up your S/C is hilarious. You cant compare your tuned & cammed & 3.9FD S/C Z, to a stock base map TN/turbo kit, even then Id bet you would have trouble pulling away if you could at all....

Nealoc187

What were your trap speeds and 60' times? That is a pretty good time bro.

ZU L8R

iTrader: (84)

I know I had a 1.8 60ft on the oem re40's. I had my track edition wheels on that night not my 19's, sorry. cj350 has run @ 12.2 I know and he is 5at as well, same track. He is on the vortech FMU and SS box still.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

no, that means the car is easier to launch consistently with normal street tires, not slicks or drag radials. It doesn't mean it'll launch harder, not sure why you made that conclusion because we all know a turbo with slicks will always launch like a bat out of hell - you of all people should know right? Just saying that you can be on the street with normal tires and floor it in first gear, and go. No wheel spin, no drama

well I meant the top end is close enough to a turbo's top end to be comparable, but if you have a consistent 8psi turbo that reaches 8psi and holds it, vs the stock vortech that ramps up to 8 psi, it's obvious the constant 8 psi turbo is going to generate a lot more power in the midrange. I said turbos would probably be .5 sec or less - meaning probably less.

Shouldn't you of all people know if a turbo Z with slicks goes to the strip and does a 11.9 and then a "stock" vortech on street tires does a 12.5 that they're comparable, but the edge does go to the turbo probably cause slicks will do to help the turbo car than they will to help the vortech car


so what would you say does then? power? same thing


ok well under your definition of what stock is, then I was wrong
I was meaning stock as in you take a stock vortech kit added to some typical things like exhaust, cats and plenum, and then tune the thing. I wasn't considering tuning optional. I think everyone should get their FI car to a shop to tune - not just for power, but to double check A/F etc
I'd hate to see a "stock" turbo run with no tune and no exhaust anything. Those setups usually run high 12's as well right?

btw, does everyone who has a FI Z post on these boards? Does everyone who's a track junkie come home and post times for Alberto to see? Some people just go to the strip, do some runs and some of them might even be pretty decent like mid 12's. Not everyone feels the need to rush back to My350Z.com and post up scanned time slips to prove to the world that they have some big ***** or something

I don't see very many people at all that have a bone stock car, with a bone stock FI kit, bone stock tune and NOTHING else. Everyone usually has an exhaust and plenum or something else added in the mix. Everyone usually tries adding some cheap bolt on NA parts first before they decide they need to step up into FI and I thought most people usually bothered to take their car to the dyno to get tuned since base FI tunes were not tuned with the assumption people would have breathing mods already


You mean the crazy theory that slicks would make their car faster in the 1/4 mile?
I guess the vortech guys don't want to be 1/4 mile gods like you alberto. I suppose one theory might be want to actually be out driving their car instead of busting up their transmission or axels and other things?

you're right, my car must be real slow
the base TN kit probably is the god of all things performance
360whp TN OwNZ sentry65
btw, where did I bring my car vs a base TN into this discussion?
I might believe that a base 360whp TN Z might feel faster than my car, cause that's one of the things turbos do - make you feel faster than you actually are

NETSHARK

http://www.panhandlez.com/videos/satracing2.wmv

Check out this Vid there`s a race inside between 350Z`s for Vortech vs Turbonetics ST, am sure it will give you the idea you wanted.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

forgot what the specs were between those two cars but if they're roughly equal in whp and weight etc that's probably about what I'd expect


I still think 10 psi with a vortech setup is about as safe as 8psi is on a turbo and even though some people will disagree, I think that's a more fair comparison than 8psi vs 8psi SC vs turbo because we know that the vortech wouldn't see max boost until redline anyway. To hell with whatever the different FI kits give you as a stock tune/setup

617G

iTrader: (6)

netshark, would you happen to know the specs of these two cars and how much psi or whp each car has?

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

original thread:
https://my350z.com/forum/showthread....satracing2.wmv

backagain's vortech 8psi car at that time:
379.55whp

1_2_NV's TN car:
?? whp


backagain's newer tune/setup as of march 2006:

chimmike

iTrader: (7)

you can't compare 10psi vs 8psi anything. 8psi vs. 8psi, same mods, is an equal comparison....nothing else.

Compare a TN with exhaust and a Vortech with exhaust. The TN will have more torque, by at least 50 ft-lbs, will out accelerate in the midrange and therefore leave the Vortech. That's just how it works.

you can't throw in an extra 2psi plus more supporting mods and say it's equivalent to 8psi on a TN

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

thing is, an exhaust does a lot more for a turbo than a SC because it doesn't just change power, but also how the turbo spools up.

and actually, PSI between a SC and turbo are not compatible. The turbo has a wastegate to maintain a constant psi and the SC doesn't

With a SC, if you change to a really open exhaust the psi goes down while the power goes up. It is possible for a turbo with 8psi to be outperformed by a SC with 7 psi if the SC car has a really open exhaust and cams etc


if we did that comparison with TN vs vortech with each having an exhaust, the vortech would lose boost so it'd be like 8psi TN vs 7psi vortech. But that certainly isn't fair under your psi = psi rules. So then you'll need to change out the vortech pulley to the 3.12 to get back that additional 1 psi on your boost gauge - which also adds another 25whp

Simple fact is, the vortech has a different range of powerband than the TN kit. The TN will wear out the engine more in the midrange than the vortech will. To make up for the difference, you gotta change out the pulley on the SC. What if Vortech came with the 3.12 pulley as stock? No one can help that they decided the 3.33 pulley was where they wanted their base tune to start out at

617G

iTrader: (6)

Won't the open exhaust even more drastically reduce tq?

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

it will down low like say around under 3000-3500 rpms, but above that it will gain power. It's a trade off. The same applies to turbo Z's as well. You're tilting the torque/power curve for less low power, and more upper power

yeah IMO you DO NOT want a dual 3 inch exhaust with the vortech unless you're making like 600whp with it which hasn't been done quite yet, but give it time...lots of developments happening right now




no one has brought up gearing yet. IMO the vortech's ideal final drive is the 3.917 and the turbo's ideal FD is the stock 3.538 with the exception of certain setups and types of racing the 3.36 being more ideal. A lot of turbo guys get the 3.36 FD for what IMO are the wrong reasons and then end up being stuck with slower accelleration. The big whp guys with 600+whp probably need all the help they can get though as far as traction and not shifting so fast.

IMO you want the most aggressive gearing that can maintain your traction threshold with none or little wheelspin. The vortech works with the 3.9 very nicely since it doesn't have the little burst of torque between 3500-4500's the single turbos have. In some races you'll have to shift more, in others you won't.

617G

iTrader: (6)

I actually did bring up gearing , and I think you're right. The longer gears will allow a turbo car to be in its power range a lot longer, while the shorter gears will allow the s/c to achieve more power quicker and be at a higher rpm point after upshifting and thus closer to peak power at all times.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

yeah the main thing I think is control.

Turbos are going to spool up fast, hit hard with a lot of torque and go thru the gears pretty quick to the point that in some cases slowing everything down will give people a little more edge in controlling their car which might end up making it faster in the end.

The vortech is the opposite since it already has a higher control threshold since it's not making as much boost in the midrange - kinda halfway between an NA car and turbo car. So speeding things up with the 3.9 FD is completely viable and my car is living proof that it works well

as an example using 6th gear:
at 80mph in 6th gear with the 3.917 FD, you're around 3300 rpms.
at 80mph in 6th gear with the 3.358 FD you're around 2750 rpms
that'd be like a 40-60 tq advantage in favor of the SC due to the higher rpm range and because the SC is actually already making some boost while a ST is just starting to, and then there's the 16.5% gear torque advantage that the 3.917 FD has over the 3.358

Still though, the 3.36 FD IMO is only useful for certain cars under certain types of racing (like 1/4 mile to eliminate the extra shift). Otherwise if you have some good racing class tires, the stock FD is going to be ideal. One thing is for sure, it'd make better gas mileage on the highway