are you guys with water injection mounting the nozzle before the throttlebody and after the MAF sensor? I'm assuming this is the best place

or would you mount the nozzle after the throttlebody?

 

yep , a few inches before the TB and after the MAF , on the intake duct.
If you put the nozzle after the TB you will need a check valve / solenoid to avoid vaccum siphon. Before the TB you don't need either .

 

Yep...mine a few inches in front of the TB

 

cool thanks guys, thought I'd check since there's really no instructions with my kit

 

I had a plate made out of aluminium:



It's mounted between the TB and plenum. Works well for me, you can see it here:

 

direct port...

 

Alex,

I wold personally NOT do direct port for this reason. This is water we are talking about, and it's not controlled like injectors are (phased AND the sequential), in fact WI works like neither, it's ALWAYS ON (once the condition(s) have been met). So, it's water, and it's always on in a concentrated fashion in the runner, even while the intake valves are closed, which is, btw, exactly 2/3 of the time assuming you have stock 240 deg duration cams. I am just not comfortable with having it ON full on. Injectors open and close in a high speed fashion and are timed to do so as close as possible to the valve closing time.

This is not the case with nitrous, as it's wholly in gas phase at normal engine temperatures, so when a direct port nitrous is on, and the valves are closed, it's being sprayed into, and fills the runner with GAS, not liquid that can pool.

It's possible but mch more complicated to do it in an elaborate/correct fashion (port injection that is), but IMO not worth it for MOST people, as the way that most people tune cars they don't even take advantage of water the way it's supposed to be done, hence it's not even worth it to do it "right", just put in b/w the MAF and TB.

 

Mine is @ the mid point between the MAF and the TB.

I shoot UP into the tube from underneath...

People frown upon meth habbits you know..

"as the way that most people tune cars they don't even take advantage of water the way it's supposed to be done" -- What pray tell does that mean???? I'm curious your opinions on this!!!

 

I have posted extensively on this at a prior WI thread.

WI allows for enough thermal energy absorption in the process of liq-gas phase change that you can run your engine much leaner than you otherwise would. Anything south of 12.4-12.5:1 AFR hurts HP, but we run the FI cars rich for cooling reasons (see below). So, you can totally run an FI car in the mid-12'sif you have a good/reliable WI system implemented (and done so correctly) AND a very reliable standalone EMS (Vpro or Motec, basically). THis will allow you extra safety and a large power increase.

Even in and of itself, thiks is NOT techically necessary, as running it this much richer (extra gasoline) does not remove enough heat to prevent impending knock, but only delays peak pressure point; this can be done just as effectively by retarding timing. The problem is that a very good EMS is required to control timing this precisly, and cannot be done with piggybacks...hence, it's not done.

Abot hte tuners, I was reffering to people putting on WI and still rnning 11:1 AFRs... There is NO reason whatsover to run this rich IF you have a good ems AND a good WI setup.

I sggest reading up more about this on WI forums (aquamist), and to read this http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resources/rich.php article by Klaus Allmendinger.

 

hm...Sam phased the WI with the Fcon.

 

And that's what I am going to do.

 

The Snow W/M injection kit , comes with a controler to phase in spray preasure . You can have it come on at 2-4 -8 psi and set to when full preasure is on . It gradually builds preasure as boost builds . One dial for onset of the spray . ANd another dial for when full preasure is reached . Works pretty good

 

booger...

there is alot more to it than that

You ave toassure equal WFR (water-fuel ratio). I have discussed this previously on the forum.

Short version: it's not about the water being phased in, but its flow rate relative to rpm. Lets say you have boost pressure of 9 psi at 3500 rpm, and the same 9 psi at 7000rpm. If your WI went on some time around 6-7psi, it's now fully 'in' by 9psi. But as you ramp up from 3500 to 7000 psi, your air and fuel flow doubles while water flow remains the same. So, your WFR is half of what it was before. And this is not optimal. You need a WI system that will vary water flow vs. rpm, and the only ones that can do that are Aquamist and FJO. I'd go with the former.

 

on a centrifugal supercharger that builds boost as rpms rise, the controller is nice because you can slowly feed in the water

at 4000 rpms you might have 6 psi and at redline 12 psi, so it's nice to be able to gradually feed the water in to match the level boost being ran

if it was a turbo kit that gave you full boost by 3500 rpms, then the controller isn't as critical because you're going to run full water the whole time pretty much

 

+1

 

CFM air flow based would be best for sure with all the bells and wistles. But you can still get additional power by using a basic DIY WI system.

 

Well that makes me fell better about my tune then.

I'm running WI injection and the shop wanted to tune me @ 11 a/f and I made him keep pulling till 12.5.

I'd done a lot of reading on the subject from various sources and came to the same conclusions that you posted. Its nice to have another point of validation.

As far as flow, I don't have an optimal setup either... So I chose a pump and jet that targeted the peak TQ as RPM increases and the power falls off 5k+ there is less chance of detonation because of air turbulence etc. (Or so I've read)

Now I'm running in piggy back land so if my car decides to do a timing advance... (That you also hear is rumor, but others claim random timing advances are real.) I'm going to be sad... as it spits the pistons out the exhaust pipe.

However, its the price of admission... I've run 4k miles, with LOTS of pulls with this setup with no sign of detonation not even a blip on the knock sensor and I'm running 10lbs boost with stock timing (when wi is on).

10lbs... Stock timing and 10.3 compression... I'm pretty sure WI is working.

 

WOW ..makes my tune seem way to safe with W/M .

what kind of power you making with 10.3 compression , stock timing , and 10psi ?

 

430HP - 92 gas - W/M - 0 timing adjust @ peak boost - DynoJet

I've compared two Dynos in town... The DynoJet gives me the lower number with how they have everything setup. The mustang in town runs about 5% higher numbers.

My best pull was 460 on the DynoJet but I think my boost wavered a bit.

I pull about 5 out of the timing till I'm sure the WI is engaged then roll it back to 0 over the next 'transition cell'.

I haven't spent a LOT of time tuning this thing... I just tell the shop what I want dialed in, I assume the risk, and the take care of the pulls.

* I want the a/f 12.5 rock solid.
* I want the WI to kick on @ 5lbs.
* I want the timing put back to stock once we're sure WI is on.
* I want the graph scale setup like 'this'. So I get better granularity.

I also make them double check all my gauges... Put a manual boost gauge on it, as well as an alternative a/f meter. Little ****, but oh well...

I'm a bit of a control freak when it comes to my tune because I'm paying 75 bucks an hour for dyno time. Don't want to waste time on theory... I'll read theory and then try and implement it.

 

On my old car i had the water/meth inject nozzle a few inches away throttle body but with the nozzle facing away from the throttle body. The guy from coolingmist(the company i bought the kit from) said this helps with the misting effect of the spray