Shop owners - Tuners - opinions on SC parasitic loss
03-13-2007, 10:23 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by sentry65
here's a question, does the belt slip not as severely in higher gears where there isn't such a drastic change in accelleration????
I'm wondering if it's actually rpm/power based slippage or more of a result because of lower gears accellerating the belt turning faster and causing the belt to studder on the SC pulley
It slips in the first place because it's trying to spin the SC pulley more because of a smaller pulley, and then there's less surface area to grip.
It's the same thing with tire traction and power. You're still accellerating through 1st gear going through the 20mph mark reaching the same speeds turning the crankshaft at the same rpms, but you're doing it so much quicker that the tire has less time to grip the ground. If you mash the gas pedal you spin the tires, but if you ease the throttle on, you do
A T-trim blower I can only assume it takes more power to turn it vs the normal vortech because the T-trim is a physically bigger blower fan even though it's the same outter housing
.
I'm wondering if it's actually rpm/power based slippage or more of a result because of lower gears accellerating the belt turning faster and causing the belt to studder on the SC pulley
It slips in the first place because it's trying to spin the SC pulley more because of a smaller pulley, and then there's less surface area to grip.
It's the same thing with tire traction and power. You're still accellerating through 1st gear going through the 20mph mark reaching the same speeds turning the crankshaft at the same rpms, but you're doing it so much quicker that the tire has less time to grip the ground. If you mash the gas pedal you spin the tires, but if you ease the throttle on, you do
A T-trim blower I can only assume it takes more power to turn it vs the normal vortech because the T-trim is a physically bigger blower fan even though it's the same outter housing
.
What matters in the parasitic loss is the volumetric efficiency of the compressor, the temperature range it works at, and the density of the air. If you can give me those three numbers, I can give you an approximate parasitic loss.
Edit: You also have to note that turbos react very different to changes in DA than superchargers. They react by a much lesser power output (superchargers) which some can concider a parasitic loss if compared against a turbocharger. The turbocharger will simply work in a different efficiency, yet produce the same compression pressure in the cylinder which is what matters. But Im going to say at sealevel, at around 15deg C, parasitic loss is around 30hp at redline ish. BUT, there is always slips which will cause a pretty big spike (uncalcultable, but its probably in the 100hp range at redline), and on top of that, the supercharger makes power where the engine starts to die off. Turbos tend to make peak HP before redline, while superchargers dont. You can't really compare the two directly.
Last edited by plumpzz; 03-13-2007 at 10:28 PM.
03-13-2007, 10:29 PM
#22
Originally Posted by sentry65
that compressor map has both cfm along the bottom of the graph - the pink vertical hash marks
I'm just reciting what corky bell wrote in his book. What you're saying then means the drive power and parasitic loss is even less than what corky bell says it should be
I'm just reciting what corky bell wrote in his book. What you're saying then means the drive power and parasitic loss is even less than what corky bell says it should be
Parasitic loss seems really high to me. I'll have to check out that book, sounds interesting. I wonder how he came to that equation for the loss. Multiplying the boost by the boosted airflow seems redundant.
Either way, there is no way the engine is at 100% Ev at redline, so figuring a 75% efficiency at best, we'd have 32.5hp all together with those figures. I guess that's a little more believable.
I guess next, you could figure how much torque is lost due to exhaust gas restriction from the turbines on a turbo. That ought to keep ya busy
Will
03-13-2007, 10:29 PM
#23
by temp range, you mean intake temps?
density of the air - do you mean the ambient air temp?
I'm sure corky bell's book isn't the most technically accurate thing out there from an engineering standpoint. That and it's 6 years old now It's probably way beneath what you already know
density of the air - do you mean the ambient air temp?
I'm sure corky bell's book isn't the most technically accurate thing out there from an engineering standpoint. That and it's 6 years old now
It's probably way beneath what you already know
Last edited by sentry65; 03-13-2007 at 10:36 PM.
03-13-2007, 10:33 PM
#24
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air density is the density of the air at a certain altitude and temperature. Its a function of temperature and altitutde. By temperature range i mean intake temperature.
The supercharger is a basic compressor. The means of compression DONT matter, as long as theres a compression. I can give you a real number not just some formula that you got from a book, and itll not be idealized (well maybe) like that number. The intake temp WILL go up after passing through the compressor.
Btw, is the intercooler before or after compression?
The supercharger is a basic compressor. The means of compression DONT matter, as long as theres a compression. I can give you a real number not just some formula that you got from a book, and itll not be idealized (well maybe) like that number. The intake temp WILL go up after passing through the compressor.
Btw, is the intercooler before or after compression?
Last edited by plumpzz; 03-13-2007 at 10:36 PM.
03-14-2007, 05:32 AM
#27
Most of your calculations are over my head on figuring it out . At the same time , I know that the preasure is high enough that the belt will not turn the blower with out slipping . I have my belt tighter than you can amagin , and it still slips at the same 13psi level . If it's loose , it will slip sooner .
And you have to admit that the same shops , on the same dyno's , with the same motors , are coming up with alot larger numbers with turbo's than SCer's with the same boost . We can split hairs about 10 or 20 whp here or there . But it still remains , the whp numbers are much larger between the two . And from what Im seeing , I still believe the parasitc lose is alot larger than we think .
And you have to admit that the same shops , on the same dyno's , with the same motors , are coming up with alot larger numbers with turbo's than SCer's with the same boost . We can split hairs about 10 or 20 whp here or there . But it still remains , the whp numbers are much larger between the two . And from what Im seeing , I still believe the parasitc lose is alot larger than we think .
03-14-2007, 08:23 AM
#28
well, let's look at stock out of the box numbers with different kits:
for instance, on a bone stock 350Z or G35, the TN kit with 8 psi has usually around 350-360whp, but almost always it deletes the cats...
the out fo the box vortech does around 340whp with 8 psi
the ATI kit out of the box does around 340whp with 7 psi
the greddy TT kit out of the box with no timing retard, does around 350whp at 5.6 psi
the APS TT with 8 psi seems to do around 360whp out of the box running rich and lots of retarded timing
for instance, on a bone stock 350Z or G35, the TN kit with 8 psi has usually around 350-360whp, but almost always it deletes the cats...
the out fo the box vortech does around 340whp with 8 psi
the ATI kit out of the box does around 340whp with 7 psi
the greddy TT kit out of the box with no timing retard, does around 350whp at 5.6 psi
the APS TT with 8 psi seems to do around 360whp out of the box running rich and lots of retarded timing
Last edited by sentry65; 03-14-2007 at 09:27 AM.
03-14-2007, 09:39 AM
#30
booger, you're the only person to actually make 13 psi on a vortech setup, but here's some things to consider:
your compression is 8.5:1 where people with TT's with 13 psi seem to be running the stock block at 10.3:1 or they maybe have 9 or 9.5:1 compression
if anyone is running a stroker kit or largerbore in any form, you obviously can't compare that engine to yours
as I said before, even though you're making 13 psi, the T-trim is slightly less efficient than the regular vortech blower and was designed to be mated with bigger engines than a 3.5 liter engine. Internally the blower fan is bigger and probably takes more power to turn it - just like a bigger turbo takes more power (hence more lag) than a smaller turbo. So in a way you can say the parasitic loss with the T-trim might be a bigger factor with the 3.5 liter engine
you're running bigger piping than normal and a bigger intercooler. You said you gained power by doing that, so I dunno. I'm not sure what the piping diameter is for the different turbo kits. As far as I recall, the only reason you changed to 3 inch piping was because the larger intercooler you're running had 3 inch inlets/outlets
Even though you're running crawford headers, cats, and a stillen dual 2.36 inch exhaust, the guys with turbos running 13 psi are usually always running test pipes, sometimes even 3.5 inch test pipes which are HUGE, and then a dual 2.5 inch exhaust if not dual 2.75 or dual 3 inch exhaust. The crawford cats flow pretty well, but test pipes and especially 3.5 inch test pipes I'd think probably flow a lot more. A lot of the turbo guys have their exhaust manifolds jethot coated too which can help with power
They may or may not have cams in their cars but cams seem to make more power with a turbo setup than a SC setup from what I've seen at least. IMO cams don't seem to make all that much more power with a SC setup than if it was NA.
You're running an upgraded 5AT transmission - which supposivly has slightly more drivetrain loss than a 6MT.
You're running the stock crank pulley where lots of turbo guys are running the UR crank pulley
lastly I don't know what octane fuel you're running - 91 or 93? The turbo guys running 13 psi seem to be running 93 octane at the minimum if not more to be safe. Many times the 13 psi turbo guys are running a better engine management than the vortech's SS box - UTEC or Fcon V-pro, tuned by a pro on a dyno. Who knows what extra power they can get out of things with independent cylinder tuning or dual bank A/F monitoring and faster, higher resolution vs the capabilities of the SS box
your compression is 8.5:1 where people with TT's with 13 psi seem to be running the stock block at 10.3:1 or they maybe have 9 or 9.5:1 compression
if anyone is running a stroker kit or largerbore in any form, you obviously can't compare that engine to yours
as I said before, even though you're making 13 psi, the T-trim is slightly less efficient than the regular vortech blower and was designed to be mated with bigger engines than a 3.5 liter engine. Internally the blower fan is bigger and probably takes more power to turn it - just like a bigger turbo takes more power (hence more lag) than a smaller turbo. So in a way you can say the parasitic loss with the T-trim might be a bigger factor with the 3.5 liter engine
you're running bigger piping than normal and a bigger intercooler. You said you gained power by doing that, so I dunno. I'm not sure what the piping diameter is for the different turbo kits. As far as I recall, the only reason you changed to 3 inch piping was because the larger intercooler you're running had 3 inch inlets/outlets
Even though you're running crawford headers, cats, and a stillen dual 2.36 inch exhaust, the guys with turbos running 13 psi are usually always running test pipes, sometimes even 3.5 inch test pipes which are HUGE, and then a dual 2.5 inch exhaust if not dual 2.75 or dual 3 inch exhaust. The crawford cats flow pretty well, but test pipes and especially 3.5 inch test pipes I'd think probably flow a lot more. A lot of the turbo guys have their exhaust manifolds jethot coated too which can help with power
They may or may not have cams in their cars but cams seem to make more power with a turbo setup than a SC setup from what I've seen at least. IMO cams don't seem to make all that much more power with a SC setup than if it was NA.
You're running an upgraded 5AT transmission - which supposivly has slightly more drivetrain loss than a 6MT.
You're running the stock crank pulley where lots of turbo guys are running the UR crank pulley
lastly I don't know what octane fuel you're running - 91 or 93? The turbo guys running 13 psi seem to be running 93 octane at the minimum if not more to be safe. Many times the 13 psi turbo guys are running a better engine management than the vortech's SS box - UTEC or Fcon V-pro, tuned by a pro on a dyno. Who knows what extra power they can get out of things with independent cylinder tuning or dual bank A/F monitoring and faster, higher resolution vs the capabilities of the SS box
Last edited by sentry65; 03-14-2007 at 09:45 AM.
03-14-2007, 12:00 PM
#31
Corky's book is very much outdated. Yes, it contains a lot of good information about the relative benefits of turbochargers and superchargers. But when I hear Corky say that "X"psi delievers "X" power gain, and his constant use of CFM instead of lb/min, it tells me he is oversimplifing things for his readers. 
He certainly knows a lot more than most people about turbocharger, but I think he uses incorrect terms just to make it easier for the readers to understand what he is talking about.
The fact is..PSI means absolutely nothing in the world of power production...whether SC or Turbo. 10psi on a pea shooter of a turbo might generate 20lb/min worth of airflow at 14.7psi boost pressure, whereas a GT35might generate 50lb/min worth of air at 14.7 psi of boost pressure. These are arbitrary numbers..just used to illustrate a point. In this example the larger turbo car, running the same boost pressure would generate more than TWICE the power of the smaller turbocharger also running the same boost pressure, becuase it flowing more than twice the mass of air. lb/min (mass or weight of the air), is the only correct measurement of estimated power capacity of a turbo charger or SC system.
"Boost" is most definately not "boost"...I hear this all the time..and its not correct at all.
In regards to parasitic looses, you could use your absolute fuel requirements, as a surrogate for power loss.
He certainly knows a lot more than most people about turbocharger, but I think he uses incorrect terms just to make it easier for the readers to understand what he is talking about.The fact is..PSI means absolutely nothing in the world of power production...whether SC or Turbo. 10psi on a pea shooter of a turbo might generate 20lb/min worth of airflow at 14.7psi boost pressure, whereas a GT35might generate 50lb/min worth of air at 14.7 psi of boost pressure. These are arbitrary numbers..just used to illustrate a point. In this example the larger turbo car, running the same boost pressure would generate more than TWICE the power of the smaller turbocharger also running the same boost pressure, becuase it flowing more than twice the mass of air. lb/min (mass or weight of the air), is the only correct measurement of estimated power capacity of a turbo charger or SC system.
"Boost" is most definately not "boost"...I hear this all the time..and its not correct at all.
In regards to parasitic looses, you could use your absolute fuel requirements, as a surrogate for power loss.
03-14-2007, 12:20 PM
#32
Well a roots type 6-71 blow takes 50hp for a 350ci smallblock to spin. A 8-71 blower takes around 100hp to turn. A centrigifual probably takes less, i am not sure that it has even been published on what the loss of power is. Some intresting info on the 6-71, the 6 stands for 6 cylinders, each displacing 71 cubic inches.
03-14-2007, 12:42 PM
#33
roots superchargers have really horrible efficiency compared to centrifugals or turbos. Something like half as efficient, so adding much more boost than stock quickly ends up making the air hot enough that it negates any gain in power by the volume of air. The air also doesn't 100% go out of it. There's some turbulence and some of the air ends up getting sucked back into the twin screws
anyway, regardless of parasitic losses, power output speaks for itself. If the goal was to go for huge power numbers, then I wouldn't choose a supercharger on a (relatively small) 3.5 liter engine no matter what kind of supercharger it is. Actually if I was going for the largest numbers possible, I'd be considering large direct port nitrous shots since a nitrous kit weighs less than a turbo kit and will output a cold charge instead of a warm air charge. It's not like you can even remotely use 600+whp on the street or anything anyway, nor would that much power be useful for drifting, autocross, and on road courses that's just a lot of power to be abusing for several 20 minute sessions - so that leaves drag racing as the only real useful thing to do with 600+whp IMO. Why not use nitrous - which works fine with supercharger setups anyway
anyway, regardless of parasitic losses, power output speaks for itself. If the goal was to go for huge power numbers, then I wouldn't choose a supercharger on a (relatively small) 3.5 liter engine no matter what kind of supercharger it is. Actually if I was going for the largest numbers possible, I'd be considering large direct port nitrous shots since a nitrous kit weighs less than a turbo kit and will output a cold charge instead of a warm air charge. It's not like you can even remotely use 600+whp on the street or anything anyway, nor would that much power be useful for drifting, autocross, and on road courses that's just a lot of power to be abusing for several 20 minute sessions - so that leaves drag racing as the only real useful thing to do with 600+whp IMO. Why not use nitrous - which works fine with supercharger setups anyway
Last edited by sentry65; 03-14-2007 at 12:56 PM.
03-14-2007, 01:19 PM
#35
Originally Posted by sentry65
well, let's look at stock out of the box numbers with different kits:
for instance, on a bone stock 350Z or G35, the TN kit with 8 psi has usually around 350-360whp, but almost always it deletes the cats...
the out fo the box vortech does around 340whp with 8 psi
the ATI kit out of the box does around 340whp with 7 psi
the greddy TT kit out of the box with no timing retard, does around 350whp at 5.6 psi
the APS TT with 8 psi seems to do around 360whp out of the box running rich and lots of retarded timing
for instance, on a bone stock 350Z or G35, the TN kit with 8 psi has usually around 350-360whp, but almost always it deletes the cats...
the out fo the box vortech does around 340whp with 8 psi
the ATI kit out of the box does around 340whp with 7 psi
the greddy TT kit out of the box with no timing retard, does around 350whp at 5.6 psi
the APS TT with 8 psi seems to do around 360whp out of the box running rich and lots of retarded timing
03-14-2007, 01:33 PM
#36
Originally Posted by booger
This is in no way a fair comparison . You have to concider the tune . At 8psi your not going to be able to tune much more power into the SC . But with a turbo the tune can yield much more whp .
the only thing I can think of that you mean by adjusting the tune with a turbo is adjusting the boost via a boost controller. As far as timing and A/F, you can adjust both a turbo and SC the same
03-14-2007, 01:34 PM
#37
Originally Posted by sentry65
booger, you're the only person to actually make 13 psi on a vortech setup, but here's some things to consider:
your compression is 8.5:1 where people with TT's with 13 psi seem to be running the stock block at 10.3:1 or they maybe have 9 or 9.5:1 compression
if anyone is running a stroker kit or largerbore in any form, you obviously can't compare that engine to yours
as I said before, even though you're making 13 psi, the T-trim is slightly less efficient than the regular vortech blower and was designed to be mated with bigger engines than a 3.5 liter engine. Internally the blower fan is bigger and probably takes more power to turn it - just like a bigger turbo takes more power (hence more lag) than a smaller turbo. So in a way you can say the parasitic loss with the T-trim might be a bigger factor with the 3.5 liter engine
you're running bigger piping than normal and a bigger intercooler. You said you gained power by doing that, so I dunno. I'm not sure what the piping diameter is for the different turbo kits. As far as I recall, the only reason you changed to 3 inch piping was because the larger intercooler you're running had 3 inch inlets/outlets
Even though you're running crawford headers, cats, and a stillen dual 2.36 inch exhaust, the guys with turbos running 13 psi are usually always running test pipes, sometimes even 3.5 inch test pipes which are HUGE, and then a dual 2.5 inch exhaust if not dual 2.75 or dual 3 inch exhaust. The crawford cats flow pretty well, but test pipes and especially 3.5 inch test pipes I'd think probably flow a lot more. A lot of the turbo guys have their exhaust manifolds jethot coated too which can help with power
They may or may not have cams in their cars but cams seem to make more power with a turbo setup than a SC setup from what I've seen at least. IMO cams don't seem to make all that much more power with a SC setup than if it was NA.
You're running an upgraded 5AT transmission - which supposivly has slightly more drivetrain loss than a 6MT.
You're running the stock crank pulley where lots of turbo guys are running the UR crank pulley
lastly I don't know what octane fuel you're running - 91 or 93? The turbo guys running 13 psi seem to be running 93 octane at the minimum if not more to be safe. Many times the 13 psi turbo guys are running a better engine management than the vortech's SS box - UTEC or Fcon V-pro, tuned by a pro on a dyno. Who knows what extra power they can get out of things with independent cylinder tuning or dual bank A/F monitoring and faster, higher resolution vs the capabilities of the SS box
your compression is 8.5:1 where people with TT's with 13 psi seem to be running the stock block at 10.3:1 or they maybe have 9 or 9.5:1 compression
if anyone is running a stroker kit or largerbore in any form, you obviously can't compare that engine to yours
as I said before, even though you're making 13 psi, the T-trim is slightly less efficient than the regular vortech blower and was designed to be mated with bigger engines than a 3.5 liter engine. Internally the blower fan is bigger and probably takes more power to turn it - just like a bigger turbo takes more power (hence more lag) than a smaller turbo. So in a way you can say the parasitic loss with the T-trim might be a bigger factor with the 3.5 liter engine
you're running bigger piping than normal and a bigger intercooler. You said you gained power by doing that, so I dunno. I'm not sure what the piping diameter is for the different turbo kits. As far as I recall, the only reason you changed to 3 inch piping was because the larger intercooler you're running had 3 inch inlets/outlets
Even though you're running crawford headers, cats, and a stillen dual 2.36 inch exhaust, the guys with turbos running 13 psi are usually always running test pipes, sometimes even 3.5 inch test pipes which are HUGE, and then a dual 2.5 inch exhaust if not dual 2.75 or dual 3 inch exhaust. The crawford cats flow pretty well, but test pipes and especially 3.5 inch test pipes I'd think probably flow a lot more. A lot of the turbo guys have their exhaust manifolds jethot coated too which can help with power
They may or may not have cams in their cars but cams seem to make more power with a turbo setup than a SC setup from what I've seen at least. IMO cams don't seem to make all that much more power with a SC setup than if it was NA.
You're running an upgraded 5AT transmission - which supposivly has slightly more drivetrain loss than a 6MT.
You're running the stock crank pulley where lots of turbo guys are running the UR crank pulley
lastly I don't know what octane fuel you're running - 91 or 93? The turbo guys running 13 psi seem to be running 93 octane at the minimum if not more to be safe. Many times the 13 psi turbo guys are running a better engine management than the vortech's SS box - UTEC or Fcon V-pro, tuned by a pro on a dyno. Who knows what extra power they can get out of things with independent cylinder tuning or dual bank A/F monitoring and faster, higher resolution vs the capabilities of the SS box
I went to a bigger IC pipe and IC because I thought it would increase air flow and it did . I made 13psi @ 6300rpm before the change and 13psi @ 5900rpm after 400 rpm's sooner . My biggest down fall is the AT5 . But the T-trim is far more capable than the stock blower , if its on a 3.5 or not .
03-14-2007, 01:38 PM
#38
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
Corky's book is very much outdated. Yes, it contains a lot of good information about the relative benefits of turbochargers and superchargers. But when I hear Corky say that "X"psi delievers "X" power gain, and his constant use of CFM instead of lb/min, it tells me he is oversimplifing things for his readers. He certainly knows a lot more than most people about turbocharger, but I think he uses incorrect terms just to make it easier for the readers to understand what he is talking about.
The fact is..PSI means absolutely nothing in the world of power production...whether SC or Turbo. 10psi on a pea shooter of a turbo might generate 20lb/min worth of airflow at 14.7psi boost pressure, whereas a GT35might generate 50lb/min worth of air at 14.7 psi of boost pressure. These are arbitrary numbers..just used to illustrate a point. In this example the larger turbo car, running the same boost pressure would generate more than TWICE the power of the smaller turbocharger also running the same boost pressure, becuase it flowing more than twice the mass of air. lb/min (mass or weight of the air), is the only correct measurement of estimated power capacity of a turbo charger or SC system.
"Boost" is most definately not "boost"...I hear this all the time..and its not correct at all.
In regards to parasitic looses, you could use your absolute fuel requirements, as a surrogate for power loss.
He certainly knows a lot more than most people about turbocharger, but I think he uses incorrect terms just to make it easier for the readers to understand what he is talking about.The fact is..PSI means absolutely nothing in the world of power production...whether SC or Turbo. 10psi on a pea shooter of a turbo might generate 20lb/min worth of airflow at 14.7psi boost pressure, whereas a GT35might generate 50lb/min worth of air at 14.7 psi of boost pressure. These are arbitrary numbers..just used to illustrate a point. In this example the larger turbo car, running the same boost pressure would generate more than TWICE the power of the smaller turbocharger also running the same boost pressure, becuase it flowing more than twice the mass of air. lb/min (mass or weight of the air), is the only correct measurement of estimated power capacity of a turbo charger or SC system.
"Boost" is most definately not "boost"...I hear this all the time..and its not correct at all.
In regards to parasitic looses, you could use your absolute fuel requirements, as a surrogate for power loss.
03-14-2007, 01:42 PM
#39
well regardless, all this talk is kinda meaningless at the end of the day.
The only thing that matters IMO is what can be achieved as far as power and torque with a SC, not how much parasitic losses it has or not. The only reason that might matter is if someone is shooting for the moon with power and in that case any SC would be an unwise choice.
I bought my vortech kit because people at the time were making 440-470whp and 340-370 tq with it and that's where I wanted to be, and it's done exactly that, maybe even slightly more when I get my fuel pressure taken care of. What do I care what the parasitic loss is if I don't plan to break the 500whp barrier on a stock block? I have yet to find ANYONE completely destroy their block on a vortech by breaking rods. I dunno, maybe my car will be one of the first for all anyone knows. If my car is making 460-480 dynojet whp and the parasitic loss is something like 100whp, then daaaaamn these stock blocks are STRONG! or I'm just doing something VERY right with keeping the engine happy
Yesterday I put some money down on an Fcon V-pro and GTM will fix my fuel pressure issue one way or another. People seem to trust their dynojet #'s and many people have posted dynos from their shop so we'll see how my car really does once finished
The only thing that matters IMO is what can be achieved as far as power and torque with a SC, not how much parasitic losses it has or not. The only reason that might matter is if someone is shooting for the moon with power and in that case any SC would be an unwise choice.
I bought my vortech kit because people at the time were making 440-470whp and 340-370 tq with it and that's where I wanted to be, and it's done exactly that, maybe even slightly more when I get my fuel pressure taken care of. What do I care what the parasitic loss is if I don't plan to break the 500whp barrier on a stock block? I have yet to find ANYONE completely destroy their block on a vortech by breaking rods. I dunno, maybe my car will be one of the first for all anyone knows. If my car is making 460-480 dynojet whp and the parasitic loss is something like 100whp, then daaaaamn these stock blocks are STRONG!
or I'm just doing something VERY right with keeping the engine happyYesterday I put some money down on an Fcon V-pro and GTM will fix my fuel pressure issue one way or another. People seem to trust their dynojet #'s and many people have posted dynos from their shop so we'll see how my car really does once finished
Last edited by sentry65; 03-14-2007 at 01:49 PM.
03-14-2007, 01:53 PM
#40
Originally Posted by sentry65
well if we can't compare any of the stock cars with stock FI kits on stock tunes, then there's no way anyone can compare a 13 psi SC to a 13 psi turbo. I've been saying that all along they're not really comparable and the thing that's important to focus on is what results people are getting as a bottom line
the only thing I can think of that you mean by adjusting the tune with a turbo is adjusting the boost via a boost controller. As far as timing and A/F, you can adjust both a turbo and SC the same
the only thing I can think of that you mean by adjusting the tune with a turbo is adjusting the boost via a boost controller. As far as timing and A/F, you can adjust both a turbo and SC the same
Im not trying offend you , but you have always tried to down play the huge difference in power and trq. gains between the turbo'ed car and the SC'ed car . Arguing till your blue in the face isnt going to change it .