Question about Fuel Return systems.
07-11-2007, 07:33 AM
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Question about Fuel Return systems.
I will be having my SFR TT kit installed in the next couple of months and i am now checking over my fuel system to make sure i have everything i need.
Coming from a car that had a stock fuel return system (the maxi-pad) i was not to sure on how the returnless setups work. From what i have gathered the return system becomes necessary at the point where the manifold pressure reaches a point where it is significantly resisting the the fuel pressure exiting the injectors. Also i was told that sometimes there are fluctuations seen in the fuel pressure from time to time. Is this also caused by the pressure in the manifold?
Now i have researched and it is reccomended by some that you go with a return system with anything above 400whp. Now being that i will be running the SFR kit w/ the turbonetics 60-1 hi-fi's i should be making a fair amount of power at a fairly low amount of boost. I am not going to speculate and say i will make 400whp on the wastegate spring or anything, but i am thinking that i might just eclipse 400whp at a significantly lower amount of boost than say a T'netics single or PE TT kit. Also i will be running a coolingmist water/methanol injection kit that i have (this meaning less fuel required for a certain power level) . I am planning on running 550cc w/ a walboro and maxing the setup out at 420-430whp (only for the race map) while still on a stock block. So my question is by me running less boost than other kits and still achieving 400whp will i still need the fuel return system?
If it helps here is some info on the car:
06 Rev-up
SFR TT kit w/ 60-1 hi-fi
HKS hi power dual exhaust (2.5 inch)
2.5 inch down pipes
Wastegate dumps
Utec w/ map sensor & boost controller solenoid
Coming from a car that had a stock fuel return system (the maxi-pad) i was not to sure on how the returnless setups work. From what i have gathered the return system becomes necessary at the point where the manifold pressure reaches a point where it is significantly resisting the the fuel pressure exiting the injectors. Also i was told that sometimes there are fluctuations seen in the fuel pressure from time to time. Is this also caused by the pressure in the manifold?
Now i have researched and it is reccomended by some that you go with a return system with anything above 400whp. Now being that i will be running the SFR kit w/ the turbonetics 60-1 hi-fi's i should be making a fair amount of power at a fairly low amount of boost. I am not going to speculate and say i will make 400whp on the wastegate spring or anything, but i am thinking that i might just eclipse 400whp at a significantly lower amount of boost than say a T'netics single or PE TT kit. Also i will be running a coolingmist water/methanol injection kit that i have (this meaning less fuel required for a certain power level) . I am planning on running 550cc w/ a walboro and maxing the setup out at 420-430whp (only for the race map) while still on a stock block. So my question is by me running less boost than other kits and still achieving 400whp will i still need the fuel return system?
If it helps here is some info on the car:
06 Rev-up
SFR TT kit w/ 60-1 hi-fi
HKS hi power dual exhaust (2.5 inch)
2.5 inch down pipes
Wastegate dumps
Utec w/ map sensor & boost controller solenoid
Last edited by chris'smax; 07-11-2007 at 07:35 AM.
07-11-2007, 07:55 AM
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if you are looking at 420whp id run 650cc injectors and no fuel return... add a fuel pressure regulator... u shoudl be fine.. i wont go much higher that than powerwise imo "safety". When u build the engine and turn up the boost later on then look for a return system and twin pump =]
07-11-2007, 08:15 AM
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talk to your shop and see what they recommend. I am going to guess that because you are going with the SFR TT that you plan on building and going for more hp in the future so if you are I'd recommend just doing the fuel return from the get go if you have the money now.
07-11-2007, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Gman2004
I'd recommend just doing the fuel return from the get go if you have the money now.
werd, otherwise its not critical at this point with the considerations already posted
Last edited by IIQuickSilverII; 07-11-2007 at 08:26 AM.
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07-11-2007, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Gman2004
talk to your shop and see what they recommend. I am going to guess that because you are going with the SFR TT that you plan on building and going for more hp in the future so if you are I'd recommend just doing the fuel return from the get go if you have the money now.
i didn't really buy it to achieve high hp. I jumped on the kit that julian was selling which allowed me to piece everything together w/ the parts of my choice. Doing this i am actually saving alot of money.
I would like to eventually build the motor, but that is not in the immediate future. I could afford the return system, but i am not a fan of spending extra money to "over build" and purchase unnecessary items.
07-11-2007, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by IIQuickSilverII
you are ok =]
but when you build and turn up the boost consider somethign liek the evott
but when you build and turn up the boost consider somethign liek the evott
nahh, i plan on dual exhaust cutt-outs if i build the motor. I had one on my old car and loved it. You get the gains of a large exhaust, but its not loud ALL the time.
07-11-2007, 08:32 AM
#11
Talk to some shops that have tuned 100+ VQ's and ask them what they prefer. A dyno number or an engine that runs for 3 months means nothing to me. Consistency and safety is #1...from run to run, and day to day. You know what my vote is. 
07-11-2007, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
Talk to some shops that have tuned 100+ VQ's and ask them what they prefer. A dyno number or an engine that runs for 3 months means nothing to me. Consistency and safety is #1...from run to run, and day to day. You know what my vote is.
oooo i know what your opinion on the subject is
Just trying to get a feel for others experiences.
07-11-2007, 08:38 AM
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Ok Sharif, lets say i just keep it the boost set at the wastegate spring(assuming 6.5psi). Regardless of horsepower output would this be suitable for a returnless setup.
I guess my reasoning for this question is that i would like to keep everything simple right off the bat. This way i can get a feel for the car and get suited w/ the new found power. I know eventually i will want to crank up the boost regardless of what power i net initially. That way when i want to crank up the boost i can get the fuel return installed at that point.
I guess my reasoning for this question is that i would like to keep everything simple right off the bat. This way i can get a feel for the car and get suited w/ the new found power. I know eventually i will want to crank up the boost regardless of what power i net initially. That way when i want to crank up the boost i can get the fuel return installed at that point.
07-11-2007, 09:24 AM
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Going the return setup will always be a smart bet. Injectors can always be changed to larger later if you go with something smaller to begin with.
07-11-2007, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by chris'smax
I would like to eventually build the motor, but that is not in the immediate future. I could afford the return system, but i am not a fan of spending extra money to "over build" and purchase unnecessary items.
You could definately get away with out one, but since you have the money now and since you will be building in the future I'd recommend getting one. It's not like your purschasing a stage III CJM fuel system which would be overkill. Get the stage I and then you can add to it later.
07-11-2007, 10:11 AM
#16
To be, one of the biggest issues with going returnless, is the variability in pump voltage. Our stock electrical system voltage varies between 13.5V to 14.5V, and this range will cause a significant change in fuel pressure, which means your AF will change as the voltage changes. With a return system, your fuel pressure will be consistent regardless of this voltage range.
07-11-2007, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by doug
if you are not doing it soon.. i would say CJM Stg 3 w/ 1000cc Injectors and FCon
do it right the first time.. no matter how much power you are running.. or you are going to buy and selling fuel parts over and over
do it right the first time.. no matter how much power you are running.. or you are going to buy and selling fuel parts over and over
that would be the eventual goal w/ a built block. When i get a built block you can bet your **** i am going with the FCon and necessary size injectors and fuel return
.Problem is i already have a brand new utec sitting in my room right now and am not ready to take the plunge on the FCon whil on a stock block.
Last edited by chris'smax; 07-11-2007 at 11:24 AM.
07-11-2007, 11:31 AM
#19
Originally Posted by chris'smax
that would be the eventual goal w/ a built block. When i get a built block you can bet your **** i am going with the FCon and necessary size injectors and fuel return .
Problem is i already have a brand new utec sitting in my room right now and am not ready to take the plunge on the FCon whil on a stock block.
.Problem is i already have a brand new utec sitting in my room right now and am not ready to take the plunge on the FCon whil on a stock block.
when you do it.. you want to do it right once.. not Stg 1 / XXX injectors... Stg 2 / XXX injectors ... Stg 3 / XXXX Injectors
too much buying and selling parts
07-11-2007, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by doug
then keep your power under 400 ... get smaller injectors (not sure what size.. i guess Sharif can suggest this to you) and forget the RFS..
when you do it.. you want to do it right once.. not Stg 1 / XXX injectors... Stg 2 / XXX injectors ... Stg 3 / XXXX Injectors
too much buying and selling parts
when you do it.. you want to do it right once.. not Stg 1 / XXX injectors... Stg 2 / XXX injectors ... Stg 3 / XXXX Injectors
too much buying and selling parts
THAT'S my way of thinking also. No need to do baby steps and have to sell parts for a loss.
Maybe i am being stubborn (which i usually am) but i don't see the need for me to get the return fuel system right now while on a stock block when it is not even deemed safe to go over 400whp on a stock block. I am after reliability right now, but it just doesn't seem that the return system is vital at this stage of the game.