Injected Performance 880whp Shakedown DD dyno
07-20-2007, 11:48 AM
#81
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
I agree. I am afraid the price point and more expensive/laborious tuning process might push it beyond the average performance enthusiast.
Not sure if Sam mentioned to you, but we are taking the MOTEC class in NC at the end of Aug. Should be fun.
Not sure if Sam mentioned to you, but we are taking the MOTEC class in NC at the end of Aug. Should be fun.
I would actually completely disagree with you on the laborious tuning process. Once you get to know the software well and understand it and the MoTeC tuning philisophy, you'll see that it's actually very different from what one would think.
07-20-2007, 11:51 AM
#82
Originally Posted by Zexy
Amazing.!!! I would reallylike to see what numbers a 3.5L untouched displacement would put out.
I don't see no mod bible stating that MoTeC is a must.
There are plenty of other ECU options that are more than acceptable.
I don't see no mod bible stating that MoTeC is a must.
There are plenty of other ECU options that are more than acceptable.
07-20-2007, 12:25 PM
#86
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I have been running a GT47-80 on my Supra for a little over a year now. We took a lot from what we know on the Supra and are using it on the Z. With 1.2L more displacement on the Z, a GT47-80 just felt small 
We are actually trying to unload the car and take it to a local 1/8 track tonight. I will try and get a RPM plot tomorrow. There really is no power after 7000rpm. I think it has a lot to do with the lower intake manifold.
We are actually trying to unload the car and take it to a local 1/8 track tonight. I will try and get a RPM plot tomorrow. There really is no power after 7000rpm. I think it has a lot to do with the lower intake manifold.
Originally Posted by GurgenPB
Injected Perf,
I'd love to see an actual dyno with an RPM plot.
Also, what's the specific reason why you guys picked that turbo? Mostly I am tlakign about the turbine size? Which trim is it?
I'd love to see an actual dyno with an RPM plot.
Also, what's the specific reason why you guys picked that turbo? Mostly I am tlakign about the turbine size? Which trim is it?
Originally Posted by __jb
Congratulations on a tremendous achievement...
Any plans to hit the 1320 with it?
Any plans to hit the 1320 with it?
07-20-2007, 04:29 PM
#87
Originally Posted by GurgenPB
Yes, Sam did mention that. I hope you gusy take away alot from the class.
I would actually completely disagree with you on the laborious tuning process. Once you get to know the software well and understand it and the MoTeC tuning philisophy, you'll see that it's actually very different from what one would think.
I would actually completely disagree with you on the laborious tuning process. Once you get to know the software well and understand it and the MoTeC tuning philisophy, you'll see that it's actually very different from what one would think.
Maybe after the class, I will be enlighted by it. I hope it ends up being easier than I am expecting.
But for $5000+...depending on the options you pay for, it's definately a high end race type EMS. If I didnt have an interest in it, I wouldn't have signed up for the class.
Last edited by Sharif@Forged; 07-20-2007 at 04:31 PM.
07-20-2007, 05:31 PM
#88
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Originally Posted by GurgenPB
I would actually completely disagree with you on the laborious tuning process. Once you get to know the software well and understand it and the MoTeC tuning philisophy, you'll see that it's actually very different from what one would think.
MoTeC is great, no doubt about that though!!
la·bo·ri·ous
adj.
1. Marked by or requiring long, hard work: spent many laborious hours on the project.
2. Hard-working; industrious.
07-20-2007, 05:32 PM
#89
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
By laborious, I mean that every signal input needs to be setup and calibrated in the MOTEC...maybe they provide 350Z setup parameters, but that is not what they told me several months ago. The basics (fuel and timing) on any EMS are usually very intituitive. But where the MOTEC gets more complicated, are the literally 100's of compensation tables and ways of looking at the data. MOTEC has data aquisition and telemetry capability that is second to none.
Maybe after the class, I will be enlighted by it. I hope it ends up being easier than I am expecting.
But for $5000+...depending on the options you pay for, it's definately a high end race type EMS. If I didnt have an interest in it, I wouldn't have signed up for the class.
Maybe after the class, I will be enlighted by it. I hope it ends up being easier than I am expecting.
But for $5000+...depending on the options you pay for, it's definately a high end race type EMS. If I didnt have an interest in it, I wouldn't have signed up for the class.
The comp tables IMHO are the reason why only MoTeC allows one to get a true F1-level tune. These comp tables are of course that much more important in a street driven car.
Last edited by GurgenPB; 07-20-2007 at 05:34 PM.
07-20-2007, 05:44 PM
#90
Originally Posted by NoLimit
tuning the MoTec is "laborious" any way you look at it. It doesn't matter how familiar you are with it, ... you are Still going to spend countless hours getting it right. The bottom line is, there are many extremely capable systems out there that take Much less work getting the tune dialed in, ... b/c of the features/software the other systems have 'built in'...
MoTeC is great, no doubt about that though!!
la·bo·ri·ous
adj.
1. Marked by or requiring long, hard work: spent many laborious hours on the project.
2. Hard-working; industrious.
MoTeC is great, no doubt about that though!!
la·bo·ri·ous
adj.
1. Marked by or requiring long, hard work: spent many laborious hours on the project.
2. Hard-working; industrious.
I think I know what you mean by 'built-in', but that's simply not the case. If oyu mean selecting Vq35 as your engine straight out, instead of setting a few extra parameters, is an example of stuff not being 'built-in' into the MoTeC relative to others, than that's definitely not the case.
Of course we are talking about standalones here; it's totally apples-to-oranges to compare the complexity of a standalone to a an off-set type device. If you are talking about "starter" maps that some units come with, those are definitely not as worthy as one may think. In fact, they require a lot of work, and one can come up with much more accurate starter maps that will be accurate for the ENTIRE table, not just the most often used parameters.
I do realize that it takes a very specific kind of person/customer to appreciate the Motec, and that almost noone will because of the cost... but, as they say, there are a few ways one can look at things. And if this wasn't an OT discusson, i could go into it and offer some justification.
Too bad it is that expensive, or I would do it in a heartbeat! It is the best, bar none, though.
07-20-2007, 06:22 PM
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no, not start up maps, ... just the fine tuning in general.
I hate to use the F Con as an example, ....
but it does work for you as a tuner. Sure others (EMS's) have the ability too, ... but damn, the way and how the F Con does it is just [borat]niiiiiiice![/borat].
A perfect example of a 'race car' that had the MoTeC on it, and now runs the F Con, is Factor X's NSX. There were probably hundreds of hours over an extended period of time that the MoTeC was tuned in this particular car, ... it ran Great, put down some of the highest HP numbers in an NSX, tracked great, etc....
.... but a switch to the F Con V Pro and A Lot less time tuning, ... resulted in an equally impressive tune, ... if not better! Even things like throttle response/feel improved. Those things are b/c of the way the F Con works, ... that's what i meant when i said 'built in' features.
things like extreme resolution and ability to control drive by wire (AND the way MoTeC does it) sets it further apart..... but having to choose between the two, I'd be hard pressed to go that route (MoTeC) knowing what it involves, and knowing there are options just as good and easier.
I hate to use the F Con as an example, ....
but it does work for you as a tuner. Sure others (EMS's) have the ability too, ... but damn, the way and how the F Con does it is just [borat]niiiiiiice![/borat]. A perfect example of a 'race car' that had the MoTeC on it, and now runs the F Con, is Factor X's NSX. There were probably hundreds of hours over an extended period of time that the MoTeC was tuned in this particular car, ... it ran Great, put down some of the highest HP numbers in an NSX, tracked great, etc....
.... but a switch to the F Con V Pro and A Lot less time tuning, ... resulted in an equally impressive tune, ... if not better! Even things like throttle response/feel improved. Those things are b/c of the way the F Con works, ... that's what i meant when i said 'built in' features.
things like extreme resolution and ability to control drive by wire (AND the way MoTeC does it) sets it further apart..... but having to choose between the two, I'd be hard pressed to go that route (MoTeC) knowing what it involves, and knowing there are options just as good and easier.
Last edited by NoLimit; 07-20-2007 at 06:25 PM.
07-20-2007, 06:58 PM
#92
Originally Posted by NoLimit
Those things are b/c of the way the F Con works, ... that's what i meant when i said 'built in' features.
There is nothign that the Fcon can do by the way it "works" that would make it better than any standalone EMS... These kinds of generalities is what causes the misconceptions that are rampant on these board. Everythign has a reason, everything. You have spark, fuel, cam advance, dbw, with compensation maps for each. Omitting the last two out of the equation, and all the auxilary functions (like spray bar control, etc etc), leaves only spark timing. If those are IDENTICAL in both cases, there is NO WAY IN HELL that the two cars can run any different. Simply saying "by the way it works is" a laughable oversimplification.
07-20-2007, 07:23 PM
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oversimplification? yes, maybe.... why sit here and explain it, trying to type it out, when only Pro Dealers can 'use' it anyway?
Yes, there are 'features' on the V Pro that make it nice and easy to tune. the integration of accessories is nice, i.e.: 'auto-tune' works well, knock amp too. Not having to change EVERY single cell, windows friendly grouping and clicking. THose are the things that save a Tremendous amount of time when using the V Pro.
There's NO room to argue that the V Pro is easier to tune, and works just as well in 98% of the situations, ...And the fact that in many cases the car's have 'run' (by that i mean a number of things) better after a 'quick' tune with the V Pro vs a 'long' tune with the MoTeC. Now, .. you can argue that it's the tuners fault, ... but you'd be on thin ice. That example is in the hands of an extremely talented tuner.
My job is to oversimplify explanations.... so that's what you'll get from me.
Yes, there are 'features' on the V Pro that make it nice and easy to tune. the integration of accessories is nice, i.e.: 'auto-tune' works well, knock amp too. Not having to change EVERY single cell, windows friendly grouping and clicking. THose are the things that save a Tremendous amount of time when using the V Pro.
There's NO room to argue that the V Pro is easier to tune, and works just as well in 98% of the situations, ...And the fact that in many cases the car's have 'run' (by that i mean a number of things) better after a 'quick' tune with the V Pro vs a 'long' tune with the MoTeC. Now, .. you can argue that it's the tuners fault, ... but you'd be on thin ice. That example is in the hands of an extremely talented tuner.
My job is to oversimplify explanations.... so that's what you'll get from me.
07-20-2007, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by InjectedPerf
UPDATED
Well after lunch we turned it up to 27psi and it made 1016rwhp Dyno Dynamics Numbers.
Well after lunch we turned it up to 27psi and it made 1016rwhp Dyno Dynamics Numbers.
07-21-2007, 05:04 PM
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Shooting for August release. We finished up testing a couple weeks ago. Just wanted to wait till I saw tracking numbers on our first batch before I posted its own thread/release date. We should have something up next week.
Originally Posted by 350zDCalb
didn't sift through the entire thread, IP: when will the Haltech be available???
Thanks
tODD
Thanks
tODD
07-22-2007, 07:03 PM
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MoTeC
Hey Sharif
The MoTeC guys should be coming down to PC, FL in September to teach and help tune my car if you are interested. Goal is to have the car up and tuned before Daytona event this October. We've had some painful clearance issues with the Brain Crower stroker but supposedly those have been resolved.
The MoTeC guys should be coming down to PC, FL in September to teach and help tune my car if you are interested. Goal is to have the car up and tuned before Daytona event this October. We've had some painful clearance issues with the Brain Crower stroker but supposedly those have been resolved.
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
By laborious, I mean that every signal input needs to be setup and calibrated in the MOTEC...maybe they provide 350Z setup parameters, but that is not what they told me several months ago. The basics (fuel and timing) on any EMS are usually very intituitive. But where the MOTEC gets more complicated, are the literally 100's of compensation tables and ways of looking at the data. MOTEC has data aquisition and telemetry capability that is second to none.
Maybe after the class, I will be enlighted by it. I hope it ends up being easier than I am expecting.
But for $5000+...depending on the options you pay for, it's definately a high end race type EMS. If I didnt have an interest in it, I wouldn't have signed up for the class.
Maybe after the class, I will be enlighted by it. I hope it ends up being easier than I am expecting.
But for $5000+...depending on the options you pay for, it's definately a high end race type EMS. If I didnt have an interest in it, I wouldn't have signed up for the class.
07-22-2007, 07:11 PM
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Australia, the home of EFI EMS :P FCon costs alot more then a motec installed in my car.
with the haltech, are things like traction control/cruise still kept? this is a big advantage of the fcon IMO.
with the haltech, are things like traction control/cruise still kept? this is a big advantage of the fcon IMO.
07-22-2007, 08:11 PM
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How in the name of all things holy did I not see this until today. Greg HUGE congrats bro!!!! Those numbers are AMAZING. In regards to the EMS war I see brewing is there any way we can push that to another thread. This thread from Greg deserves to remain ALL about his car and the 1000+ WHP BIG single turbo Z he built. 