My unenviable experience concerning BuiltZMotors
Originally Posted by TENGAI
Hopefully Don will post up something today or this weekend and bring some sense out of this.
I have nothing but praise for GTM thus far in how they've handled the matter - Todd's PMs did allow for the inspection to be performed at GTM. The offer to send the motor back was contingent upon GTM finding an acute machining error. The findings speak for themselves - and while I would have beared the costs of having GTM remachine/assemble the motor and been happy with Todd reconciling the parts costs associated with the R&R (as stated in a PM that was not shown to anyone as of yet), after it was discovered that the engine suffered a gross failure, I chose how I want to matter to proceed.
To address 'well, when more than one shop touches it, I wouldn't warranty ****' statements: I think it's obvious. You can't purchase and install a motor all under BZM's name, so by default there are multiple parties invovled. The car would have stayed at DynoComp, but they tune only UniChip, and I do not pretend to have any remarkable tuning knowledge for UTEC, so off to GTM it went.
While it would be cozy to think Todd immediately requested the motor once it was pulled, this was not done through IMs or phone calls to myself (read above). The offer to ship the motor was post-inspection.
At no point have I refused to send a motor back to Todd.
I agree, Todd's written statements in this thread have been comforting and appear to be willing to bend over backwards - this was not the case prior to making this debacle public.
At no point in this thread have I slandered BZM, their products, services or Todd personally. I think that statement, more than any, pisses me off to no end and furthers my resentment in this matter. I had a ****-poor experience from a f*cked product, and I chose to share it with the forum as a 'buyer beware' position. Just as Todd has received unsolicited PMs quietly praising his efforts, I receive numerous messages to the contrary. So there is a silent group out there, and it speaks volumes as to who has not spoken in this thread and why... so the 'consensus' stated on the thread is certainly unbalanced.
That said, I do appreciate Todd's post last night where he states he finally shares some culpability in the manner had he responded with a bit more empathy instead of deferring blame when extraneous factors were ruled out as early as early July. If anything, that's been the enlightening part of this experience.
I've acted as an intermediary between GTM and BZM to have the motor shipped to Todd for inspection and evaluation.
Aside from responding to the personal criticisms in how I've acted (which I won't, I'm pretty thick skinned and feel I've been validated many times over), there's nothing much else to say at this point.
Man did this go off topic, worse than beating a dead horse. It is a shame how customers not involved in an issue decide to expose things they see/hear at a shop about someone else's car, unfortunately this seems to happen with customers at PF and usually without accurate information. This should be at a minimum discussed by the shop and more appropriately by the owner of the car in question.
Originally Posted by JoeDirtPharmD
I strongly disagree with some of the contentions posted by involved parties as they are overtly inaccurate, so I'll address them briefly...
I have nothing but praise for GTM thus far in how they've handled the matter - Todd's PMs did allow for the inspection to be performed at GTM. The offer to send the motor back was contingent upon GTM finding an acute machining error. The findings speak for themselves - and while I would have beared the costs of having GTM remachine/assemble the motor and been happy with Todd reconciling the parts costs associated with the R&R (as stated in a PM that was not shown to anyone as of yet), after it was discovered that the engine suffered a gross failure, I chose how I want to matter to proceed.
To address 'well, when more than one shop touches it, I wouldn't warranty ****' statements: I think it's obvious. You can't purchase and install a motor all under BZM's name, so by default there are multiple parties invovled. The car would have stayed at DynoComp, but they tune only UniChip, and I do not pretend to have any remarkable tuning knowledge for UTEC, so off to GTM it went.
While it would be cozy to think Todd immediately requested the motor once it was pulled, this was not done through IMs or phone calls to myself (read above). The offer to ship the motor was post-inspection.
At no point have I refused to send a motor back to Todd.
I agree, Todd's written statements in this thread have been comforting and appear to be willing to bend over backwards - this was not the case prior to making this debacle public.
At no point in this thread have I slandered BZM, their products, services or Todd personally. I think that statement, more than any, pisses me off to no end and furthers my resentment in this matter. I had a ****-poor experience from a f*cked product, and I chose to share it with the forum as a 'buyer beware' position. Just as Todd has received unsolicited PMs quietly praising his efforts, I receive numerous messages to the contrary. So there is a silent group out there, and it speaks volumes as to who has not spoken in this thread and why... so the 'consensus' stated on the thread is certainly unbalanced.
That said, I do appreciate Todd's post last night where he states he finally shares some culpability in the manner had he responded with a bit more empathy instead of deferring blame when extraneous factors were ruled out as early as early July. If anything, that's been the enlightening part of this experience.
I've acted as an intermediary between GTM and BZM to have the motor shipped to Todd for inspection and evaluation.
Aside from responding to the personal criticisms in how I've acted (which I won't, I'm pretty thick skinned and feel I've been validated many times over), there's nothing much else to say at this point.
I have nothing but praise for GTM thus far in how they've handled the matter - Todd's PMs did allow for the inspection to be performed at GTM. The offer to send the motor back was contingent upon GTM finding an acute machining error. The findings speak for themselves - and while I would have beared the costs of having GTM remachine/assemble the motor and been happy with Todd reconciling the parts costs associated with the R&R (as stated in a PM that was not shown to anyone as of yet), after it was discovered that the engine suffered a gross failure, I chose how I want to matter to proceed.
To address 'well, when more than one shop touches it, I wouldn't warranty ****' statements: I think it's obvious. You can't purchase and install a motor all under BZM's name, so by default there are multiple parties invovled. The car would have stayed at DynoComp, but they tune only UniChip, and I do not pretend to have any remarkable tuning knowledge for UTEC, so off to GTM it went.
While it would be cozy to think Todd immediately requested the motor once it was pulled, this was not done through IMs or phone calls to myself (read above). The offer to ship the motor was post-inspection.
At no point have I refused to send a motor back to Todd.
I agree, Todd's written statements in this thread have been comforting and appear to be willing to bend over backwards - this was not the case prior to making this debacle public.
At no point in this thread have I slandered BZM, their products, services or Todd personally. I think that statement, more than any, pisses me off to no end and furthers my resentment in this matter. I had a ****-poor experience from a f*cked product, and I chose to share it with the forum as a 'buyer beware' position. Just as Todd has received unsolicited PMs quietly praising his efforts, I receive numerous messages to the contrary. So there is a silent group out there, and it speaks volumes as to who has not spoken in this thread and why... so the 'consensus' stated on the thread is certainly unbalanced.
That said, I do appreciate Todd's post last night where he states he finally shares some culpability in the manner had he responded with a bit more empathy instead of deferring blame when extraneous factors were ruled out as early as early July. If anything, that's been the enlightening part of this experience.
I've acted as an intermediary between GTM and BZM to have the motor shipped to Todd for inspection and evaluation.
Aside from responding to the personal criticisms in how I've acted (which I won't, I'm pretty thick skinned and feel I've been validated many times over), there's nothing much else to say at this point.
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
Craig, you are 100% wrong with this, and you continue to post inaccurate information, and these pics. Why are you dragging my name through this thread?
WE DID NOT INSTALL THIS LINE....PERIOD You need to talk to JetPilot. We installed a different line, and then JETPILOT removed his turbocharger and did other work on his car AFTER HE LEFT OUR SHOP, and reinstalled this new line. We have nothing to do with this kinked line.
WE DID NOT INSTALL THIS LINE....PERIOD You need to talk to JetPilot. We installed a different line, and then JETPILOT removed his turbocharger and did other work on his car AFTER HE LEFT OUR SHOP, and reinstalled this new line. We have nothing to do with this kinked line.
I could really care less where this line came from or who installed it. All I know is I dealt with the fallout from it for months. So, before you think I'm bashing you in any way. Reread it. Doug was the one jumping to conclusions.
Note - I don't plan to debate this. I was just retorting to doug using it as an example.
Originally Posted by Conceyted
Do you not agree with us that you should have had the motor torn down by Todd instead of allowing a third party to do it? Do you also agree that by doing what you did you knowingly voided your warranty? And furthermore, is it not irrational to believe that he still owes you a full refund when he seems to want a chance to correct his mistakes? As far as I am concerned, you don't appear to have ever given Todd a chance to rectify his mistakes. Instead you simply threw your hands up and acted too hastily, and now you are looking at an unnecessary, extra 6-13 grand.
The motor failure already lent to at least a $5k repair bill regardless of who looked at what. The addt'l costs, as I have agreed, are to ensure a proper automobile. Having another BZM motor in the car predisposes me to greater financial risk at $4k/pop each time I receive a subpar product. As I've begrudgingly discovered, you certainly get what you pay for...
So, no, I do not agree with you or your collective.
And I make no apologies if I sound obstinate - it is what it is.
Originally Posted by taurran
Sharif - PLEASE reread any of my comments in my post, or the comments in my original post that doug posted. I never did once mention your name.
I could really care less where this line came from or who installed it. All I know is I dealt with the fallout from it for months. So, before you think I'm bashing you in any way. Reread it. Doug was the one jumping to conclusions.
Note - I don't plan to debate this. I was just retorting to doug using it as an example.
I could really care less where this line came from or who installed it. All I know is I dealt with the fallout from it for months. So, before you think I'm bashing you in any way. Reread it. Doug was the one jumping to conclusions.
Note - I don't plan to debate this. I was just retorting to doug using it as an example.
Last edited by Sharif@Forged; Aug 10, 2007 at 11:51 AM.
Originally Posted by JoeDirtPharmD
I strongly disagree with some of the contentions posted by involved parties as they are overtly inaccurate, so I'll address them briefly...
I have nothing but praise for GTM thus far in how they've handled the matter - Todd's PMs did allow for the inspection to be performed at GTM. The offer to send the motor back was contingent upon GTM finding an acute machining error. The findings speak for themselves - and while I would have beared the costs of having GTM remachine/assemble the motor and been happy with Todd reconciling the parts costs associated with the R&R (as stated in a PM that was not shown to anyone as of yet), after it was discovered that the engine suffered a gross failure, I chose how I want to matter to proceed.
To address 'well, when more than one shop touches it, I wouldn't warranty ****' statements: I think it's obvious. You can't purchase and install a motor all under BZM's name, so by default there are multiple parties invovled. The car would have stayed at DynoComp, but they tune only UniChip, and I do not pretend to have any remarkable tuning knowledge for UTEC, so off to GTM it went.
While it would be cozy to think Todd immediately requested the motor once it was pulled, this was not done through IMs or phone calls to myself (read above). The offer to ship the motor was post-inspection.
At no point have I refused to send a motor back to Todd.
I agree, Todd's written statements in this thread have been comforting and appear to be willing to bend over backwards - this was not the case prior to making this debacle public.
At no point in this thread have I slandered BZM, their products, services or Todd personally. I think that statement, more than any, pisses me off to no end and furthers my resentment in this matter. I had a ****-poor experience from a f*cked product, and I chose to share it with the forum as a 'buyer beware' position. Just as Todd has received unsolicited PMs quietly praising his efforts, I receive numerous messages to the contrary. So there is a silent group out there, and it speaks volumes as to who has not spoken in this thread and why... so the 'consensus' stated on the thread is certainly unbalanced.
That said, I do appreciate Todd's post last night where he states he finally shares some culpability in the manner had he responded with a bit more empathy instead of deferring blame when extraneous factors were ruled out as early as early July. If anything, that's been the enlightening part of this experience.
I've acted as an intermediary between GTM and BZM to have the motor shipped to Todd for inspection and evaluation.
Aside from responding to the personal criticisms in how I've acted (which I won't, I'm pretty thick skinned and feel I've been validated many times over), there's nothing much else to say at this point.
I have nothing but praise for GTM thus far in how they've handled the matter - Todd's PMs did allow for the inspection to be performed at GTM. The offer to send the motor back was contingent upon GTM finding an acute machining error. The findings speak for themselves - and while I would have beared the costs of having GTM remachine/assemble the motor and been happy with Todd reconciling the parts costs associated with the R&R (as stated in a PM that was not shown to anyone as of yet), after it was discovered that the engine suffered a gross failure, I chose how I want to matter to proceed.
To address 'well, when more than one shop touches it, I wouldn't warranty ****' statements: I think it's obvious. You can't purchase and install a motor all under BZM's name, so by default there are multiple parties invovled. The car would have stayed at DynoComp, but they tune only UniChip, and I do not pretend to have any remarkable tuning knowledge for UTEC, so off to GTM it went.
While it would be cozy to think Todd immediately requested the motor once it was pulled, this was not done through IMs or phone calls to myself (read above). The offer to ship the motor was post-inspection.
At no point have I refused to send a motor back to Todd.
I agree, Todd's written statements in this thread have been comforting and appear to be willing to bend over backwards - this was not the case prior to making this debacle public.
At no point in this thread have I slandered BZM, their products, services or Todd personally. I think that statement, more than any, pisses me off to no end and furthers my resentment in this matter. I had a ****-poor experience from a f*cked product, and I chose to share it with the forum as a 'buyer beware' position. Just as Todd has received unsolicited PMs quietly praising his efforts, I receive numerous messages to the contrary. So there is a silent group out there, and it speaks volumes as to who has not spoken in this thread and why... so the 'consensus' stated on the thread is certainly unbalanced.
That said, I do appreciate Todd's post last night where he states he finally shares some culpability in the manner had he responded with a bit more empathy instead of deferring blame when extraneous factors were ruled out as early as early July. If anything, that's been the enlightening part of this experience.
I've acted as an intermediary between GTM and BZM to have the motor shipped to Todd for inspection and evaluation.
Aside from responding to the personal criticisms in how I've acted (which I won't, I'm pretty thick skinned and feel I've been validated many times over), there's nothing much else to say at this point.
what i think is obvious is that you're never going to accept responsibility for your actions... you bought a complete motor and when you had issues and ran diags, you found that it had poor compression on a single cylinder... instead of doing the PROPER thing which is to send it back to the manufacturer, you opted to allow yet ANOTHER shop to put their hands in the pie and tear it down...
this was your mistake and you should have to live with it... i truly feel for the situation that you are in, but you can't expect a refund when you didn't give the manufacturer a chance to repair what they sent you... to analogy this, it's like buying a Z from Nissan...finding out is has oil consumption problems...and then demanding a refund without ever allowing them to see the car, diagnose the car or replace the motor... it just doesn't work that way...
Originally Posted by stormcrow
the reason you deserve no warranty is because you allowed another shop to tear it down without the consent of the manufacturer... Todd has stated this repeatedly...
Todd's resolution to my poor compression was to put another 1,000 mi. on the car.
In any case, things will come out in the wash...
Originally Posted by JoeDirtPharmD
each time I receive a subpar product. As I've begrudgingly discovered, you certainly get what you pay for...
.
.
[QUOTE=JoeDirtPharmD]And that fact is incorrect... so your stated reason for what I do and don't deserve is inaccurate.
Todd's resolution to my poor compression was to put another 1,000 mi. on the car.
QUOTE]
that was my recommendation when you posted that the compression came back up after adding motor oil in the cylinder, which would lend to believe tha the rings had not seated, especially after you ran it (and posted about it) so rich from initial start-up, don;t twist my words, I'm trying to work with you.
Todd's resolution to my poor compression was to put another 1,000 mi. on the car.
QUOTE]
that was my recommendation when you posted that the compression came back up after adding motor oil in the cylinder, which would lend to believe tha the rings had not seated, especially after you ran it (and posted about it) so rich from initial start-up, don;t twist my words, I'm trying to work with you.
Originally Posted by 350zDCalb
that was my recommendation when you posted that the compression came back up after adding motor oil in the cylinder, which would lend to believe tha the rings had not seated, especially after you ran it (and posted about it) so rich from initial start-up, don;t twist my words, I'm trying to work with you.
'Supbar' is fair - it wasn't 'as advertised.'
EDIT: subpar
Last edited by JoeDirtPharmD; Aug 10, 2007 at 11:47 AM.
Originally Posted by JoeDirtPharmD
And that fact is incorrect... so your stated reason for what I do and don't deserve is inaccurate.
Todd's resolution to my poor compression was to put another 1,000 mi. on the car.
In any case, things will come out in the wash...
Todd's resolution to my poor compression was to put another 1,000 mi. on the car.
In any case, things will come out in the wash...
Originally Posted by Nismo350ZRT
Why did you edit your post? I didn't see anything wrong with it. 
I just thought it 'wasn't my place' to comment on this.
Originally Posted by 350zDCalb
AND then, the engine was rebuilt, and it spun a bearing again!!!!! Absolving me from any liability or issues from the original build!!! So stop running your mouth when you don't know the facts. I had NOTHING to do with the engine spinning a bearing, I'm not sure if the true culprit has been determined as of yet, I just know that Jeremy told me that he realizes that I did nothing wrong!!!
And I'm still out a crank and a few hundred dollars worth of bearings.
And I'm still out a crank and a few hundred dollars worth of bearings.
I'm not sure of the extent taken on the second try, but obviously they would have been better off trashing the block you sent and building another one from the ground up. Don is smart for wanting to do so.
Now, PF, MRC, FP, and GTM won't install your motors for obvious reasons. I think there's a reason all of these shops are doing in-house builds now...
All you do in your "warranty" assistance is look for a way to "absolve... from any liability or issues". You weren't sincerely interested in helping in any way, just as you aren't sincere in helping in this problem. The only thing you're sincere about is getting any sort of blame off your back and clearing up any issues that may effect your reputation.
The problem with dealing with you is that you will not ASSUME ANY sort of responsibility, and in fact will attempt to weasel your way out of it. This is why the SECOND you knew about Chris' second failure, you were on the phone spreading word to all of the shops you could possibly contact. Pretty sad...