sentry65

iTrader: (11)

seems like all you need is a standalone EMS (or possibly ECU flash) and bigger injectors. You can probably even switch between E85 and normal gas by switching tuning maps. E85 is not corrosive. All or most modern stock fuel systems are perfectly able to run E85 as long as the injectors and EMS are able to richen the A/F about 30%


pros:
-instant 20-25 tq across the board
-105 octane, can run - and E85 prefers more timing
-cools the engine a LOT, A/F = around 8.7 at redline and 9.8 at idle
-cleans engine/exhaust even better than water/meth injection
-$2.45/gal is cheaper than mixing premium and 101 octane race gas, even with worse mpg


cons:
-more frequent gas fill ups
-getting retuned


more info on where fuel stations and cost etc are:
http://e85vehicles.com/e85-stations.htm
and
http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33448

taurran

iTrader: (18)

I'm surprised california has so little. I'm interested in this myself, as it might be the future of internal combustion powered automobile fuels. I'm just wondering if theres a larger movement to switch over to fuels like E85 that are compatible with current engines in the inevitable case that our petrol supply runs out. (which will happen in the next few decades)

Spork

iTrader: (6)

One of my friends runs e85 in his 2007 wrx. He just had to retune.
Note this is a factory turbo car, so that could be a factor?

booger

iTrader: (6)

I dont think E85 will ever really take off as a good way to replace normal gas . Ive seen several news articals on it . The fuel and energy it takes to make E85 doesnt make it a good replacement . I believe the cost is less now...due to no , or less taxes put on it .

G35JCC

When you say petrol are you referring to gasoline or oil? I'm going to assume gas. With that being said you mention we are going to run out of oil/gas in the next few decades, how many decades is a few? Where are you getting your info/proof? To make such a statement without any proof to back it up is just inflamatory and irresponsible. If you were Exxon's Chief Geologist(which I doubt) I might believe you, but since you offer no credentials as well as proof I have no reason to believe you.

taurran

iTrader: (18)

Well, don't get too angry. I've heard wildly varying estimates, and of course it can be argued to no end. Why would it be "inflamatory"? Is oil your livelyhood?

Either way, my opinion isn't too strong on the subject. I've just been concerned with the transition to alternate fuels and putting so much money into modifying a gasoline engine.

phunk

iTrader: (21)

we have been doing E85 conversions to twin turbo vipers at work. check out e85viper.com for one of the nicest vipers in the world that we built, and it runs on E85.

my bosses car made 1725rwhp on E85. We have even used a motec and done a FFV conversion to a single turbo viper... you can run any mixture of E85/93 and it will automatically detect and adjust the fuel and timing calibrations depending on the mixture traveling thru the fuel lines.

checking out the april 2007 archive page for list of mods and pictures of the parts. it is one hell of a car.

taurran

iTrader: (18)

If you don't mind enligtening us, what is involved in the conversion process? (well, besides the standalone ems)

phunk

iTrader: (21)

you dont exactly need a standalone to do it. the motec and a FFV sensor is needed if you want full FFV capabilities but to just convert to straight E85 you can do with any system or even on piggy backs.

its almost all in the fuel system. you should use all teflon hose, which every CJM fuel system is made of anyway... so lots of you guys can already do it. However, the pump and injectors need to be very oversized. a high HP twin turbo Z will need twin fuel pumps. 1000cc injectors should be a min also, so i guess you really do need a standalone like the FCON just due to that... given you wont have to scale the injectors nearly as much for E85, but I think that saying you can do it on a piggyback would be wrong unless your under 400rwhp maybe (just an estimate).

so far we have not had any issues with corrosion in unanodized aluminum fuel rails or with the plastic used on the fuel pump assemblies and fuel tank of the viper. my boss has used special oils and oil addictives at times in some oil changes, but we have also just used regular mobil 1 15w50 as well.. i never asked him much about the oil stuff... i think some people recommend a special kind of oil, but i dont think its critical.

i dont know, its no big deal really. The FFV part of it is quite complicated and we are proud of, but to just run E85 for the most part only requires quality plumbing, a big enough fuel system, and a good tune.

athenG

iTrader: (2)

Don't get to violent, we are all Gas-guzzler here anyways, check this movie "A Crude Awakening - The Oil Crash" this movie won so many awards around the world and this basically tell us that we might be nearing our Peak in oil production. If we want to have a nice switch over and not affect the economy and our way of life, the process has to start at least 10-20 yrs a head of time. We might be nearing the peak based on some of the research and also based on the growing demand for Oil, then now is the time.

G35JCC

Oil is my livelyhood and yours as well, if you didn't know. As a society the world is not prepared for the extinction of oil. I can assure you that if the oil dries up in the next few decades and we are not ready (which is currently the case)mass hysteria and who knows what else will immediately follow. Imagine that you will no longer have transportation to work, of course your place of employment will no longer exists shortly after depletion. Transportation will cease to exist, period. Communication will grow very difficult as well and eventually cease to exist at least to the point of which we are used to. Can you say Carrier Pigeon? What about all the plastic that is around you? Can you guess what makes it? I'm sure you know. Thats right, Oil. Did you know that the volume of plastic produced in the U.S. surpassed steel in 1979?(MSN Encarta) How about all the heavy machinery that builds homes resturants, factories, grocery stores, hospitals, prisons, power plants, shelters, etc. Want to bulid these things and maintain them with amimals and pulleys? WTF will you use for the structure? Palm tree branches? How about the sewage systems. Most of the underground pipe is PVC. It is also made from oil. Once those examples deteriorate to nothing, what will happen then? Can you say prison overcrowding? Riots? Where will you go for an emergency? I can assure you there will be no help. It wouldn't be loing and many places would be without electricity. They would have to burn candles at night, but make sure the wax on the candle isn't parafin wax, because...that's right you guessed it, parafin wax is derived from oil. An expert in sociology or anthropology could tell you for sure, but I would give the world 5 years maximum to survive without oil. Now I could spent more time coming up with more proof as to why we need oil, but I think you get the point. Do you not agree now that making such a comment is inflamatory? I'm not mad at you and I'm not trying to be a smart ***. I just feel that what you said about oil was stupid.

Willie

We will never run out of oil, it is ecomomically impossible.

taurran

iTrader: (18)

As for my comment that you feel is 'stupid'... Maybe I should have referred to the nearer future when we're paying $5-$10 for gas. You can imagine the public outcry for an alternate source of energy at that point. While I don't agree that Ethanol is necessarily a good source of that for personal transportation, you'll have to find something to do with that gas guzzling project car you've got sitting in the garage if you plan to actually drive it. Oil will only be our livelyhood as long as it's use is our only option.

Anyway, thanks for your input, and for completely derailing off topic. Perhaps you should take this argument you feel the need to pound down our throats and take it to the off topic forum. Post your link here and we'll go argue the semantics of oil consumption and it's social and economic impact on our society. Let's talk about cars here.

Anyway, back on subject...

G35JCC

Just in case you forgot you brought it up.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

curious, if you have an Fcon V pro tune and it works using it's own A/F sensor, can you just switch to E85 and the Fcon will adjust automatically with sending more fuel to the injectors - say you have oversized injectors that are way bigger than you need

do you actually have to reprogram the Fcon to understand that you want the A/F to be richer than before? I'm assuming this is the case and you'd run "lean" (same A/F for normal gas) for what E85 needs to run

Quamen

iTrader: (14)

You would still need to adjust the Target A/F to be lower since it would no longer be 12.1:1

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

so how hard is it to tune with? Do you just literally scale all the A/F down a %, maybe add in some timing and that's pretty much it?


how hard is it for tuners to deal with? Doesn't seem like a lot of tuners will have had much experience with E85



on a side note, IMO I don't think E85 will really be a viable replacement for gas for the entire planet's car population. I think electric cars will be. But I do think E85 will be a viable replacement for certain performance cars and people who don't want to give up their gas engine car that they love

Quamen

iTrader: (14)

E85, IMO, will not be a viable option unless we find effecient ways to replenish soil nutrients.

Sentry-
I would think you could scale down the % and possibly have to do some little tuning.

Maybe someone should mess with E85 injection using something like this: http://rossmachineracing.com/dualinjassm.html

You would need a pump, tank and injectors but it could be a effective and more economic option then water methonal injection.

sentry65

iTrader: (11)

in my case, I have 750cc injectors, Fcon, walbro, stage 2 CJM fuel system with my vortech setup that made 460-477whp last time I was tuned at GTM. Another option is the Fcon will support up to 8 injectors. I could put 1 or 2 primer injectors into my SSV to supply additional fuel. E85 I hear is slightly harder to ignite and I have the HKS ignition amp to help with that.

So I wonder if I'm good to go and just need a new map on my Fcon for E85. I suppose I could just call Sam@GTM and see what he thinks.




water/meth really is pretty cheap once you get the kit installed. I drive my Z about 2-3 times a week and will hit WOT through the gears up to 8 times each day I drive. I seem to go through maybe a full gallon of 50/50 water/meth every 3-4 weeks. Meth is like $3.25 a gallon, distilled water is like $2.00 a gallon, so that's around $3 a month

Quamen

iTrader: (14)

I've been debating if I want to use something like E85 or Water/Meth as secondary injection so I can take me intercooler out for one run and see how much boost loss there is in the IC and IC piping.