It's done! ~~MoTeC M800~~ running on my car *pics*videos*
12-04-2007, 04:30 AM
#81
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Originally Posted by GurgenPB
A quick screen cap that illustrates how well MoTeC Clsoed Loop Lambda control really works with minimal tweaking.
This is a screen can from Session 4 of California Speedway from the MoTeC i2 Datalogging Analysis Tool. The Fuel table is not quite tuned yet, and was set to be overly rich in the low 10's and actually nines (which is what it will do if Lambda control is turned off). With lambda control tuend on, and some of the settings tweaked (yet by no mean optimized), here is how the MoTeC controlled fueling, which in my opinion is superb. For track, the AFR targeting was set between 11 and 10.5 depending on load and RPM, and it was truly HELD there! Excellent!
This is a screen can from Session 4 of California Speedway from the MoTeC i2 Datalogging Analysis Tool. The Fuel table is not quite tuned yet, and was set to be overly rich in the low 10's and actually nines (which is what it will do if Lambda control is turned off). With lambda control tuend on, and some of the settings tweaked (yet by no mean optimized), here is how the MoTeC controlled fueling, which in my opinion is superb. For track, the AFR targeting was set between 11 and 10.5 depending on load and RPM, and it was truly HELD there! Excellent!
12-04-2007, 09:22 AM
#82
Originally Posted by rb26ina240
Are you using this yet ?http://www.motec.com.au/pdf/31SEPT2007.pdf
- Gurgen
12-10-2007, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by GurgenPB
No, but I got something else i will be using that's about $1000 and does everything the ADL does. Will keep all posted. No write up yet, sortry. Will do that tomorrow night.
- Gurgen
- Gurgen
12-10-2007, 09:30 PM
#84
Originally Posted by rb26ina240
AIM?
Got any personal experience with it?
12-11-2007, 04:22 AM
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Originally Posted by GurgenPB
Yep, that's it. http://www.aimsports.com/products/mxl-strada/index.html
Got any personal experience with it?
Got any personal experience with it?
02-01-2008, 08:04 AM
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Gurgen,
Sorry to go a bit off topic but I sent you a PM and tried to call Sam a couple times with no replies. Would you mind telling me what you have done for a fuel system upgrade? CJM told me the outlet on the fuel pump assembly on the sedan is smaller than the coupe or Z so he doesn't make a stage 2 hard line upgrade. He didn't think it would do any good with the outlet size. His first idea was to try and adapt the coupe tank assembly into the sedan but I have not looked at that yet.
I currently have a stage 1 kit and walbro 255 fuel pump but I'm building the motor right now and am very concerned that I will run out of fuel in the low 500's (or maybe before that) because of the small oem hard pipe and outlet.
Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
Sorry to go a bit off topic but I sent you a PM and tried to call Sam a couple times with no replies. Would you mind telling me what you have done for a fuel system upgrade? CJM told me the outlet on the fuel pump assembly on the sedan is smaller than the coupe or Z so he doesn't make a stage 2 hard line upgrade. He didn't think it would do any good with the outlet size. His first idea was to try and adapt the coupe tank assembly into the sedan but I have not looked at that yet.
I currently have a stage 1 kit and walbro 255 fuel pump but I'm building the motor right now and am very concerned that I will run out of fuel in the low 500's (or maybe before that) because of the small oem hard pipe and outlet.
Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
03-08-2008, 02:57 PM
#88
Hey Phil
Got in an accident in the G back in January .... So, the car is the body shop...then is going to GTM for some more upgrades to truly finish it, then the fine tuning really begins. No dynos yet, sorry. Probably a month out or so. Been very busy with work, so far less time to mess with it then before.
Got in an accident in the G back in January .... So, the car is the body shop...then is going to GTM for some more upgrades to truly finish it, then the fine tuning really begins. No dynos yet, sorry. Probably a month out or so. Been very busy with work, so far less time to mess with it then before.
03-08-2008, 03:00 PM
#89
Originally Posted by GurgenPB
Hey Phil
Got in an accident in the G back in January .... So, the car is the body shop...then is going to GTM for some more upgrades to truly finish it, then the fine tuning really begins. No dynos yet, sorry. Probably a month out or so. Been very busy with work, so far less time to mess with it then before.
Got in an accident in the G back in January .... So, the car is the body shop...then is going to GTM for some more upgrades to truly finish it, then the fine tuning really begins. No dynos yet, sorry. Probably a month out or so. Been very busy with work, so far less time to mess with it then before.
03-09-2008, 10:50 AM
#91
Oh thanks for your concern guys... much appreciated.
No I wasn't hurt, but the car totally hydroplaned (because of VDC being ON, whcih shut off throttle when it got really bad, so I couldn't power out of a bad oversteer) banged up against a shallow curb a couple of times, bending the suspension and taking out teh lower-front of the car.
Not too bad, there is no frame deviation. Just needs time to be fixed. WIll be doing some nice upgrades while I am at it (not in a hurry, bought a asecond car that I have always wanted) add hydramyst, new IC, new BIG-**** radiator... etc etc
Motec implementation is pretty complete at that point. I had the cam control implemented, and was ready to do the DBW.... the nice thing now is that, since I have another car, I will be more inclined to be less considerate of daily driver characteristics and set it up in a more track-ready fashion. We'll see.... will keep all posted
No I wasn't hurt, but the car totally hydroplaned (because of VDC being ON, whcih shut off throttle when it got really bad, so I couldn't power out of a bad oversteer) banged up against a shallow curb a couple of times, bending the suspension and taking out teh lower-front of the car.
Not too bad, there is no frame deviation. Just needs time to be fixed. WIll be doing some nice upgrades while I am at it (not in a hurry, bought a asecond car that I have always wanted) add hydramyst, new IC, new BIG-**** radiator... etc etc
Motec implementation is pretty complete at that point. I had the cam control implemented, and was ready to do the DBW.... the nice thing now is that, since I have another car, I will be more inclined to be less considerate of daily driver characteristics and set it up in a more track-ready fashion. We'll see.... will keep all posted
03-10-2008, 02:52 AM
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Gurgen:
My new eight channel knock controller just came off the drawing board. I'll be putting a couple of pre-production boards together in the next couple of weeks, then see if all the new stuff works as designed.
I added a row of LED's on the front panel to show which cylinders are knocking, plus a headphone amp in case you want to listen to the sensor.
Here's a pic of the layout:
My new eight channel knock controller just came off the drawing board. I'll be putting a couple of pre-production boards together in the next couple of weeks, then see if all the new stuff works as designed.
I added a row of LED's on the front panel to show which cylinders are knocking, plus a headphone amp in case you want to listen to the sensor.
Here's a pic of the layout:
Last edited by John at J&S; 03-10-2008 at 03:02 AM.
09-19-2008, 03:03 PM
#97
Hey Guys
It's been a while, but I did get my car back about 6-8 weeks ago. Just been very busy with work, though still putting in soe time weekly toward the car. The pace of development has slowed but not stopped. Actually. In the next couple of days, I expect to get a few more things done on it.
So, A few updates so far:
1. The damned speed density tuning. From the very beginning, I have been trying to get the car to be essentially +/- 1% WITHOUT using closed loop lambda. That's not possible under ALL circumstances given the heat soaking factor of all IAT sensors. I spend months experimenting with two different MAF locations (i.e. the stock IAT sensor), three different IAT sensors (stock, Bosch, Delco), and two different in-plenum sensing sites, heat soak is still a factor. So, I got fed up and ordered the newly sourced extended range MAF, and will be converting the car to pure MAF in the next week or so, we'll see how it turns out. That, or just say screw it and let the closed loop take care of it. We'll see.
2. Here is the most exciting part perhaps. Cam control. I had this running on the car in one shape or form for almost 8 months now, but only in the last couple of weeks finalized my cam table. Result: With GTM Stage II cams, the difference between the stock CAM control table and my optimized cam control table is between 4.5-5.5% depending on the site. So, an average of 5.0%. Here I am talking about honest MASS increase at the same efficiency site, using the Mass-Per-Induction method. As an example, MPI was 27.0 g/s at 3000 rpm and 80% efficiency with the stock advance of 22 deg; with an advance of 34 degrees, the MPI rose to 28.5. This is the only true objective method of tuning cams!! Similarly at other rpm sites. Granted almost all the gains. So, I am now for the fist time able to state the worth of cam tuning (on a non-rev up VQ35) at least with these cams. Even taking the minimum gain of about 4.5%, it is a significant and repeatable (and confirmed) gain. And if you think about it, that all that any reasonable person would expect out of cam tuning. However, keep in mind that these are not very extreme cams at all, and stock sprockets. At 3500-4000 rpm site, I had to wind up the cams to it's sprocket stop of 38 deg advance. With Nismo sprockets, and even more aggressive cams, I am CERTAIN that even more efficiency can be obtained.
I will try to do a full write up soon, when I implement the DBW.
It's been a while, but I did get my car back about 6-8 weeks ago. Just been very busy with work, though still putting in soe time weekly toward the car. The pace of development has slowed but not stopped. Actually. In the next couple of days, I expect to get a few more things done on it.
So, A few updates so far:
1. The damned speed density tuning. From the very beginning, I have been trying to get the car to be essentially +/- 1% WITHOUT using closed loop lambda. That's not possible under ALL circumstances given the heat soaking factor of all IAT sensors. I spend months experimenting with two different MAF locations (i.e. the stock IAT sensor), three different IAT sensors (stock, Bosch, Delco), and two different in-plenum sensing sites, heat soak is still a factor. So, I got fed up and ordered the newly sourced extended range MAF, and will be converting the car to pure MAF in the next week or so, we'll see how it turns out. That, or just say screw it and let the closed loop take care of it. We'll see.
2. Here is the most exciting part perhaps. Cam control. I had this running on the car in one shape or form for almost 8 months now, but only in the last couple of weeks finalized my cam table. Result: With GTM Stage II cams, the difference between the stock CAM control table and my optimized cam control table is between 4.5-5.5% depending on the site. So, an average of 5.0%. Here I am talking about honest MASS increase at the same efficiency site, using the Mass-Per-Induction method. As an example, MPI was 27.0 g/s at 3000 rpm and 80% efficiency with the stock advance of 22 deg; with an advance of 34 degrees, the MPI rose to 28.5. This is the only true objective method of tuning cams!! Similarly at other rpm sites. Granted almost all the gains. So, I am now for the fist time able to state the worth of cam tuning (on a non-rev up VQ35) at least with these cams. Even taking the minimum gain of about 4.5%, it is a significant and repeatable (and confirmed) gain. And if you think about it, that all that any reasonable person would expect out of cam tuning. However, keep in mind that these are not very extreme cams at all, and stock sprockets. At 3500-4000 rpm site, I had to wind up the cams to it's sprocket stop of 38 deg advance. With Nismo sprockets, and even more aggressive cams, I am CERTAIN that even more efficiency can be obtained.
I will try to do a full write up soon, when I implement the DBW.
09-19-2008, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by GurgenPB
Yep, that's it. http://www.aimsports.com/products/mxl-strada/index.html
Got any personal experience with it?
Got any personal experience with it?
I have put the AIM display in the Supras.It is a really nice unit.Lots of wiring to do though but it is worth it since you can pretty much log everything.You can also set up the dash to view the info you want to see while racing which is cool.
09-19-2008, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by GurgenPB
Hey Guys
It's been a while, but I did get my car back about 6-8 weeks ago. Just been very busy with work, though still putting in soe time weekly toward the car. The pace of development has slowed but not stopped. Actually. In the next couple of days, I expect to get a few more things done on it.
So, A few updates so far:
1. The damned speed density tuning. From the very beginning, I have been trying to get the car to be essentially +/- 1% WITHOUT using closed loop lambda. That's not possible under ALL circumstances given the heat soaking factor of all IAT sensors. I spend months experimenting with two different MAF locations (i.e. the stock IAT sensor), three different IAT sensors (stock, Bosch, Delco), and two different in-plenum sensing sites, heat soak is still a factor. So, I got fed up and ordered the newly sourced extended range MAF, and will be converting the car to pure MAF in the next week or so, we'll see how it turns out. That, or just say screw it and let the closed loop take care of it. We'll see.
2. Here is the most exciting part perhaps. Cam control. I had this running on the car in one shape or form for almost 8 months now, but only in the last couple of weeks finalized my cam table. Result: With GTM Stage II cams, the difference between the stock CAM control table and my optimized cam control table is between 4.5-5.5% depending on the site. So, an average of 5.0%. Here I am talking about honest MASS increase at the same efficiency site, using the Mass-Per-Induction method. As an example, MPI was 27.0 g/s at 3000 rpm and 80% efficiency with the stock advance of 22 deg; with an advance of 34 degrees, the MPI rose to 28.5. This is the only true objective method of tuning cams!! Similarly at other rpm sites. Granted almost all the gains. So, I am now for the fist time able to state the worth of cam tuning (on a non-rev up VQ35) at least with these cams. Even taking the minimum gain of about 4.5%, it is a significant and repeatable (and confirmed) gain. And if you think about it, that all that any reasonable person would expect out of cam tuning. However, keep in mind that these are not very extreme cams at all, and stock sprockets. At 3500-4000 rpm site, I had to wind up the cams to it's sprocket stop of 38 deg advance. With Nismo sprockets, and even more aggressive cams, I am CERTAIN that even more efficiency can be obtained.
I will try to do a full write up soon, when I implement the DBW.
It's been a while, but I did get my car back about 6-8 weeks ago. Just been very busy with work, though still putting in soe time weekly toward the car. The pace of development has slowed but not stopped. Actually. In the next couple of days, I expect to get a few more things done on it.
So, A few updates so far:
1. The damned speed density tuning. From the very beginning, I have been trying to get the car to be essentially +/- 1% WITHOUT using closed loop lambda. That's not possible under ALL circumstances given the heat soaking factor of all IAT sensors. I spend months experimenting with two different MAF locations (i.e. the stock IAT sensor), three different IAT sensors (stock, Bosch, Delco), and two different in-plenum sensing sites, heat soak is still a factor. So, I got fed up and ordered the newly sourced extended range MAF, and will be converting the car to pure MAF in the next week or so, we'll see how it turns out. That, or just say screw it and let the closed loop take care of it. We'll see.
2. Here is the most exciting part perhaps. Cam control. I had this running on the car in one shape or form for almost 8 months now, but only in the last couple of weeks finalized my cam table. Result: With GTM Stage II cams, the difference between the stock CAM control table and my optimized cam control table is between 4.5-5.5% depending on the site. So, an average of 5.0%. Here I am talking about honest MASS increase at the same efficiency site, using the Mass-Per-Induction method. As an example, MPI was 27.0 g/s at 3000 rpm and 80% efficiency with the stock advance of 22 deg; with an advance of 34 degrees, the MPI rose to 28.5. This is the only true objective method of tuning cams!! Similarly at other rpm sites. Granted almost all the gains. So, I am now for the fist time able to state the worth of cam tuning (on a non-rev up VQ35) at least with these cams. Even taking the minimum gain of about 4.5%, it is a significant and repeatable (and confirmed) gain. And if you think about it, that all that any reasonable person would expect out of cam tuning. However, keep in mind that these are not very extreme cams at all, and stock sprockets. At 3500-4000 rpm site, I had to wind up the cams to it's sprocket stop of 38 deg advance. With Nismo sprockets, and even more aggressive cams, I am CERTAIN that even more efficiency can be obtained.
I will try to do a full write up soon, when I implement the DBW.
Awesome info man. I know alot of the top tuners in the country felt like the stock cam timing couldn't really be improved on. what is MPI measured in btw?
09-19-2008, 09:18 PM
#100
MPI is the best load measuring method (mass per induction). It's is derived from MAF, which I have always advocated as the best load measuring device. Of course, you need a maf sensor with enough range, which I finally found!!! massairsystems.com. PLug in! I would need a few paragraphs to describe the genius of MPI versus regular MAF (or even MAF voltage). THat will have to be another time.
Speed density is extremely fickle and cannot possibly work reliably without LARGE lambda corrections. I want the car to be tuned to the point where closed loop is not needed period! I will go into that in my write up as soon as i get to it.
Speed density is extremely fickle and cannot possibly work reliably without LARGE lambda corrections. I want the car to be tuned to the point where closed loop is not needed period! I will go into that in my write up as soon as i get to it.