Show me your APS TT Boost Curves!! :D
10-04-2007, 10:25 PM
#1
Show me your APS TT Boost Curves!! :D
Well, after having my aps TT self install looked at by a shop and fixing an exhaust leak on the exhaust manifold, I figured it was time for a tune. I took it to a shop called Dyno Authority in Redmond,WA. Great guys, and very knowledgable. Unfortunately.. everything didnt go as well as planned. It seems that my boost curve is extremely odd, goes up to around 5psi, dips back down to 4 and then gradually goes up to reach peak boost. Looks like a supercharger boost graph. Did extensive tests for vaccum leaks including smoke and compressed air and also double checked that my hks evc was working. No dice.
We suspect its my aps 2.5" exhaust. I am only trying to run 8psi, and after installing this aps 2.5" from my invidia g200, I cannot reach max boost in 5th gear at 3k rpm like I could with my 2" g200. Only around 5psi max.
Very odd. Anyways, please show me your boost curves so I can get an idea of what it should look like.
Thank you in advance,
Aaron
We suspect its my aps 2.5" exhaust. I am only trying to run 8psi, and after installing this aps 2.5" from my invidia g200, I cannot reach max boost in 5th gear at 3k rpm like I could with my 2" g200. Only around 5psi max.
Very odd. Anyways, please show me your boost curves so I can get an idea of what it should look like.
Thank you in advance,
Aaron
Last edited by jining; 10-05-2007 at 12:29 PM.
10-04-2007, 10:34 PM
#2
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Originally Posted by jining
Well, after having my aps TT self install looked at by a shop and fixing an exhaust leak on the exhaust manifold, I figured it was time for a tune. I took it to a shop called Dyno Authority in Redmond,WA. Great guys, and very knowledgable. Unfortunately.. everything didnt go as well as planned. It seems that my boost curve is extremely odd, goes up to around 5psi, dips back down to 4 and then gradually goes up to reach peak boost. Looks like a supercharger boost graph. They spent 6 hours trying to tune it out, only charged me for 2. Did extensive tests for vaccum leaks including smoke and compressed air and also double checked that my hks evc was working. No dice.
We suspect its my aps 2.5" exhaust. I am only trying to run 8psi, and after installing this aps 2.5" from my invidia g200, I cannot reach max boost in 5th gear at 3k rpm like I could with my 2" g200. Only around 5psi max.
Very odd. Anyways, please show me your boost curves so I can get an idea of what it should look like.
Thank you in advance,
Aaron
We suspect its my aps 2.5" exhaust. I am only trying to run 8psi, and after installing this aps 2.5" from my invidia g200, I cannot reach max boost in 5th gear at 3k rpm like I could with my 2" g200. Only around 5psi max.
Very odd. Anyways, please show me your boost curves so I can get an idea of what it should look like.
Thank you in advance,
Aaron
10-04-2007, 11:27 PM
#3
The problem is not that we aren't able to reach high boost, the 2 problems are these:
-Boost graph is linear like a 45 degree angle (besides the strange boost dip), reaching max boost (10psi even though my goal is 8psi) @ around 6k-6.5k, instead of reaching max boost at 3k or so like it should be.
-Baseline boost reaches 10psi, even though my actuator springs are the APS 8Ib springs. I have even heard of these springs having a hard time holding 8Ib of boost and only showing 4-5psi baseline.
My goal is only 8psi with the stock block. What baseline boost are you getting with the 2.5" exhaust? I can see the wastegates creeping open at as little as 5psi on the dyno. Its almost like the wastegates open and close at 5psi resulting in the dip in the boost graph.
Do you think 2.5" is too little backpressure for the small amount of boost i'm aiming to run? I never had issues reaching max boost in 5th or even 6th gear with my 2" g200, and I never had overboost issues.
-Boost graph is linear like a 45 degree angle (besides the strange boost dip), reaching max boost (10psi even though my goal is 8psi) @ around 6k-6.5k, instead of reaching max boost at 3k or so like it should be.
-Baseline boost reaches 10psi, even though my actuator springs are the APS 8Ib springs. I have even heard of these springs having a hard time holding 8Ib of boost and only showing 4-5psi baseline.
My goal is only 8psi with the stock block. What baseline boost are you getting with the 2.5" exhaust? I can see the wastegates creeping open at as little as 5psi on the dyno. Its almost like the wastegates open and close at 5psi resulting in the dip in the boost graph.
Do you think 2.5" is too little backpressure for the small amount of boost i'm aiming to run? I never had issues reaching max boost in 5th or even 6th gear with my 2" g200, and I never had overboost issues.
Last edited by jining; 10-04-2007 at 11:34 PM.
10-04-2007, 11:41 PM
#4
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Originally Posted by jining
The problem is not that we aren't able to reach high boost, the 2 problems are these:
-Boost graph is linear like a 45 degree angle (besides the strange boost dip), reaching max boost (10psi even though my goal is 8psi) @ around 6k-6.5k, instead of reaching max boost at 3k or so like it should be.
-Baseline boost reaches 10psi, even though my actuator springs are the APS 8Ib springs. I have even heard of these springs having a hard time holding 8Ib of boost and only showing 4-5psi baseline.
My goal is only 8psi with the stock block. What baseline boost are you getting with the 2.5" exhaust? I can see the wastegates creeping open at as little as 5psi on the dyno. Its almost like the wastegates open and close at 5psi resulting in the dip in the boost graph.
Do you think 2.5" is too little backpressure for the small amount of boost i'm aiming to run? I never had issues reaching max boost in 5th or even 6th gear with my 2" g200, and I never had overboost issues.
-Boost graph is linear like a 45 degree angle (besides the strange boost dip), reaching max boost (10psi even though my goal is 8psi) @ around 6k-6.5k, instead of reaching max boost at 3k or so like it should be.
-Baseline boost reaches 10psi, even though my actuator springs are the APS 8Ib springs. I have even heard of these springs having a hard time holding 8Ib of boost and only showing 4-5psi baseline.
My goal is only 8psi with the stock block. What baseline boost are you getting with the 2.5" exhaust? I can see the wastegates creeping open at as little as 5psi on the dyno. Its almost like the wastegates open and close at 5psi resulting in the dip in the boost graph.
Do you think 2.5" is too little backpressure for the small amount of boost i'm aiming to run? I never had issues reaching max boost in 5th or even 6th gear with my 2" g200, and I never had overboost issues.
10-04-2007, 11:47 PM
#5
**** I dont have a dyno graph printout, we were so dissapointed we didnt really even think of it.
When I configured the HKS EVC 6 and did a 4th gear pull on the dyno to determine the baseline boost, it does the same weird boost dip. Basically the boost builds like this 0-1-2-3-4-5-4-4-5-6-7-8.
Might help you out, im trying to think of all the info I can.
Thanks for your help.
My setup (stockblock):
Aps TT (tuner) swapped the 12psi actuators for 8psi actuators
Utec
HKS EVC 6
Deutschwerks 650cc Injectors
CJM Stage 2
APS 2.5" Exhaust
APS 2.5" Downpipes
When I configured the HKS EVC 6 and did a 4th gear pull on the dyno to determine the baseline boost, it does the same weird boost dip. Basically the boost builds like this 0-1-2-3-4-5-4-4-5-6-7-8.
Might help you out, im trying to think of all the info I can.
Thanks for your help.
My setup (stockblock):
Aps TT (tuner) swapped the 12psi actuators for 8psi actuators
Utec
HKS EVC 6
Deutschwerks 650cc Injectors
CJM Stage 2
APS 2.5" Exhaust
APS 2.5" Downpipes
Last edited by jining; 10-04-2007 at 11:54 PM.
10-05-2007, 12:16 AM
#6
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Originally Posted by jining
**** I dont have a dyno graph printout, we were so dissapointed we didnt really even think of it.
When I configured the HKS EVC 6 and did a 4th gear pull on the dyno to determine the baseline boost, it does the same weird boost dip. Basically the boost builds like this 0-1-2-3-4-5-4-4-5-6-7-8.
Might help you out, im trying to think of all the info I can.
Thanks for your help.
My setup (stockblock):
Aps TT (tuner) swapped the 12psi actuators for 8psi actuators
Utec
HKS EVC 6
Deutschwerks 650cc Injectors
CJM Stage 2
APS 2.5" Exhaust
APS 2.5" Downpipes
When I configured the HKS EVC 6 and did a 4th gear pull on the dyno to determine the baseline boost, it does the same weird boost dip. Basically the boost builds like this 0-1-2-3-4-5-4-4-5-6-7-8.
Might help you out, im trying to think of all the info I can.
Thanks for your help.
My setup (stockblock):
Aps TT (tuner) swapped the 12psi actuators for 8psi actuators
Utec
HKS EVC 6
Deutschwerks 650cc Injectors
CJM Stage 2
APS 2.5" Exhaust
APS 2.5" Downpipes
10-05-2007, 04:02 AM
#7
try to have your tuner unhook the pressure line completely from the actuators AND plug up the hole on them as well. plugging the hole on them will give you a little more boost because it makes the actuators airtight so it is fighting actual suction and springs to open the wastegate flap. this will give you the max boost you will be able to reach with your setup.
dont do this yourself, make sure you are on a dyno in the hands of a good tuner...
dont do this yourself, make sure you are on a dyno in the hands of a good tuner...
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10-05-2007, 08:03 AM
#8
THe evc is not controlling the boost I believe because we were doing pulls in 4th gear during the EVC initial setup to get the baseline boost, and it would still peak at 9-10psi.
Even when we take the EVC out of the equation is doesnt seem to have any effect and peaks at 9-10PSI. Still with the weird dip around 4-5 psi.
The tuner did hook it up the actuators to a pressure source and we noticed the wastegates begin to open at around 5psi. No matter the baseline setting on the evc, be it 2 pounds baseline, 4 pounds, 6 pounds , 8 pounds or 9 pounds, it still is boosting to 10psi. :P
Is there no way it could be the exhaust? Has anyone run the 2.5" with 8Ib and had good results?
Even when we take the EVC out of the equation is doesnt seem to have any effect and peaks at 9-10PSI. Still with the weird dip around 4-5 psi.
The tuner did hook it up the actuators to a pressure source and we noticed the wastegates begin to open at around 5psi. No matter the baseline setting on the evc, be it 2 pounds baseline, 4 pounds, 6 pounds , 8 pounds or 9 pounds, it still is boosting to 10psi. :P
Is there no way it could be the exhaust? Has anyone run the 2.5" with 8Ib and had good results?
Last edited by jining; 10-05-2007 at 09:18 AM.
10-05-2007, 09:21 AM
#10
Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
Your problem is the actuator swap. Had you left your stock 12 psi actuators, the car would make about 7-8 psi on the base setting, you swappin in a lower actuator and are now asking the EVC to raise the base boost..The base boost on the pair of the 8 psi actuators might be in the 4-5 psi area. This is why your getting the drop then spike.Its setteling in on its base boost, then the EVC is raising the boost level. Thats why your chart may be linear..Try running BOTH vacume ports on the actuators directly to a pressure souce and see what kind of boost it builds.This will be your true baseline boost setting..Then set the EVC baseline for that psi and raise the boost within the EVC from there.
10-05-2007, 09:41 AM
#12
You obviously have something installed or hooked up incorrectly. the exhaust is not the problem, especially if you are able to hit 10 psi at redline.
Recheck the EBC install. make sure everything is not only wired properly, but the settings are correct.
Did you make sure your preload on the wastegate actuators was set properly? I would suggest at least a 1/2 hole preload.
I would do what Jeremy suggested. Take the feed to the actuators and clamp it off. The car should just keep making boost at that point. Carefully watch your boost gauge and be sure to let off if it starts climbing out of range - preferrably let your tuner do this on a dyno. If you can't just make a steady increase in boost this way, you have mechanical issues.
Recheck the EBC install. make sure everything is not only wired properly, but the settings are correct.
Did you make sure your preload on the wastegate actuators was set properly? I would suggest at least a 1/2 hole preload.
I would do what Jeremy suggested. Take the feed to the actuators and clamp it off. The car should just keep making boost at that point. Carefully watch your boost gauge and be sure to let off if it starts climbing out of range - preferrably let your tuner do this on a dyno. If you can't just make a steady increase in boost this way, you have mechanical issues.
10-05-2007, 11:04 AM
#13
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I just got the APS single kit installed and had similar problem... ide hit 4psi around 3k and then creap up to 10, actually over boosting.I have a qtp cutout that switched from stock exhaust to 3.5 open dumps, haha. Dave at Function:Tuned fixed it, now it hits hard. It was crazy what he did, frankly still dont really understand it but he know his stuff. now making 370rwhp at 9psi( little less actually think defis read high) on Dyno dynamics.
10-05-2007, 12:29 PM
#14
Originally Posted by Zivman
You obviously have something installed or hooked up incorrectly. the exhaust is not the problem, especially if you are able to hit 10 psi at redline.
Recheck the EBC install. make sure everything is not only wired properly, but the settings are correct.
Did you make sure your preload on the wastegate actuators was set properly? I would suggest at least a 1/2 hole preload.
I would do what Jeremy suggested. Take the feed to the actuators and clamp it off. The car should just keep making boost at that point. Carefully watch your boost gauge and be sure to let off if it starts climbing out of range - preferrably let your tuner do this on a dyno. If you can't just make a steady increase in boost this way, you have mechanical issues.
Recheck the EBC install. make sure everything is not only wired properly, but the settings are correct.
Did you make sure your preload on the wastegate actuators was set properly? I would suggest at least a 1/2 hole preload.
I would do what Jeremy suggested. Take the feed to the actuators and clamp it off. The car should just keep making boost at that point. Carefully watch your boost gauge and be sure to let off if it starts climbing out of range - preferrably let your tuner do this on a dyno. If you can't just make a steady increase in boost this way, you have mechanical issues.
Last edited by jining; 10-05-2007 at 12:34 PM.
10-05-2007, 01:37 PM
#15
Originally Posted by jining
We did take the feed off the actuators as you suggested, it still hit around 9psi and still had the strange boost curve. Im guessing it is most likely actuator preload as you said. How exactly should I have preloaded the actuators? Wish I had addressed this issue when my motor was out last week... damnit.
Right click save as for video
10-05-2007, 02:05 PM
#16
Ah.. very useful video thank you. Well.. I definitely did not do that correctly 
Im taking it back to the shop thursday and we will attempt to get at them with the motor still in the car. LHS shouldnt be bad but the RHS one requires pulling out the alternator from what I remember. :P
Thanks a lot for your help guys.
Im taking it back to the shop thursday and we will attempt to get at them with the motor still in the car. LHS shouldnt be bad but the RHS one requires pulling out the alternator from what I remember. :PThanks a lot for your help guys.
10-15-2007, 12:21 AM
#19
well, we preloaded the actuators to 3/4 a hole and hooked them up to a compressor to crack open at the same time at 6.5 Ib, still has a strange dip on the boost graph.... we are out of ideas on that issue.. but it peaked at 410rwph and 400tq on a mustang dyno @ 8psi so im happy about that 
Got water injection on the way for some added safety !
Got water injection on the way for some added safety !
Last edited by jining; 10-15-2007 at 12:24 AM.
10-15-2007, 03:58 AM
#20
Just a question but do you have the boost controller setup for the right wastegate type? There shoul be a setting on the back of the HKS for an internal wastegate setting (swing) and a external wastegate setting (poppet) which will affect how the controller controls boost. On my single turbo two years ago we had a similar problem and we hade the EVC on SV when it should have been on PV for my external wastegates.