Stock oil pump=FAIL
Originally Posted by Sharif@Forged
The outer case of the Nismo pump is identical. If you put them side by side, you can't even tell the difference between the two. The modifications are all internal.
Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
I dont think a harmonic balancer would have helped in this situation.The Z motor is internally balanced and the addition harmonic balancer would IMHO no do all that much for us. We are attributing it to the crank actually moving upon releasing and depressing the clutch under such a high load as the launch control where we were building 5psi of boost sitting still
ATI dampers makes one of thebest dampers out there. They can custom make a amper for your exact application. They measure all of the forces, torques, and vibration going on in your engine while its on an engine dyno. once they have they info, they make a cusom damper for your engine.
Originally Posted by QuadCam
Most built motors and all race motors are internally balanced. The harmonic balncer isn't for offsetting the balance of the rotating assembly. It is to control hramnics and vibration in the crank. Combustion causes large torsion forces on the crankshaft. these torsion forces cause twisting in the crank that leads to erratic valve train movement and broken cranks. The stock damper is designed for the stock rotating assembly, stock power levels, and rpm levels.
ATI dampers makes one of thebest dampers out there. They can custom make a amper for your exact application. They measure all of the forces, torques, and vibration going on in your engine while its on an engine dyno. once they have they info, they make a cusom damper for your engine.
ATI dampers makes one of thebest dampers out there. They can custom make a amper for your exact application. They measure all of the forces, torques, and vibration going on in your engine while its on an engine dyno. once they have they info, they make a cusom damper for your engine.
It seams as if the gears and casing just came apart..
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Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Tims Ford Lake TN
Quad... I'm with you on the values of a Harmonic Balancer...since the
valve train is connected via chain, the crank vibrations are sent up top
also to the top end, and anything to help offset that is going to add
some life to your componets. It doens't matter if internal or externally
balanced...the balancer still does the same thing...help with adverse
harmonics and with FI, it just get worse with more power and out of
range of the factory one. Just a little added insurance.
valve train is connected via chain, the crank vibrations are sent up top
also to the top end, and anything to help offset that is going to add
some life to your componets. It doens't matter if internal or externally
balanced...the balancer still does the same thing...help with adverse
harmonics and with FI, it just get worse with more power and out of
range of the factory one. Just a little added insurance.
I have seen figures that show upwards of 1 degree of flex back and forth from an engine with an inoppropriate harmonic balancer.the vibration and flex also caused the valves to bounce around and really throw off the cam timing.
When you get into to strokers, a stock harmonic balancer can really be WAY off from a stock rotating assembly. especially when you consider how the moments and torques applied to the crank are greater than stock. also, the rod ratio will be different from stock too...leading to different harmonics there also.
When you get into to strokers, a stock harmonic balancer can really be WAY off from a stock rotating assembly. especially when you consider how the moments and torques applied to the crank are greater than stock. also, the rod ratio will be different from stock too...leading to different harmonics there also.
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Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Tims Ford Lake TN
Copied this from Pro Race for information only...
Harmonic Balancer…Crankshaft Harmonic Damper…Torsional Vibration Damper….
The term so often used for this component is harmonic balancer, which suggests the unit “balances” the engine. In generality this statement is misleading…. a better description for this component is a harmonic damper or torsional vibration damper. This better describes the actual function of the unit.
Torsional vibration occurs in the crankshaft of engines, as a result of the combustion process. The sudden reversal of load on the piston, conrod and crankshaft during compression, followed by the ignition or firing of the compressed fuel and air in the combustion chamber. Subsequent relaxation of the load following combustion causes deflection or flexing of the crankshaft. This oscillating vibration which results from the reciprocating load changes will remain in force until dissipated by internal friction or damping. At certain rpm ranges these oscillations can come into phase with each other creating potentially damaging torsional peaks in the crankshaft.
Unless the amplitude of these torsional vibrations is controlled, major damage can occur to engine components, such as rapid wear of the timing sprockets, stretching or breakage of the timing chain, pitting or cupping of the camshaft and lifters, broken valve springs and valve train failure, reduced service life of crankshaft bearings. In extreme situations uncontrolled torsional vibrations can lead to a loose flywheel or a broken crankshaft with serious safety consequences.
As explained above, the higher the horsepower output, the longer the stroke, the greater the deflection of the crankshaft. The amplitude of the resulting torsional vibration in the Crankshaft must be controlled to effectively counteract these potentially engine destroying torsional peaks, mass is required in the inertia ring for the damper to perform this function. Light weight inertia rings are less capable of adequately damping out these torsional peaks, particularly for stroker crankshafts having less crank-pin overlap, generally resulting in greater torsional amplitudes.
Harmonic Balancer…Crankshaft Harmonic Damper…Torsional Vibration Damper….
The term so often used for this component is harmonic balancer, which suggests the unit “balances” the engine. In generality this statement is misleading…. a better description for this component is a harmonic damper or torsional vibration damper. This better describes the actual function of the unit.
Torsional vibration occurs in the crankshaft of engines, as a result of the combustion process. The sudden reversal of load on the piston, conrod and crankshaft during compression, followed by the ignition or firing of the compressed fuel and air in the combustion chamber. Subsequent relaxation of the load following combustion causes deflection or flexing of the crankshaft. This oscillating vibration which results from the reciprocating load changes will remain in force until dissipated by internal friction or damping. At certain rpm ranges these oscillations can come into phase with each other creating potentially damaging torsional peaks in the crankshaft.
Unless the amplitude of these torsional vibrations is controlled, major damage can occur to engine components, such as rapid wear of the timing sprockets, stretching or breakage of the timing chain, pitting or cupping of the camshaft and lifters, broken valve springs and valve train failure, reduced service life of crankshaft bearings. In extreme situations uncontrolled torsional vibrations can lead to a loose flywheel or a broken crankshaft with serious safety consequences.
As explained above, the higher the horsepower output, the longer the stroke, the greater the deflection of the crankshaft. The amplitude of the resulting torsional vibration in the Crankshaft must be controlled to effectively counteract these potentially engine destroying torsional peaks, mass is required in the inertia ring for the damper to perform this function. Light weight inertia rings are less capable of adequately damping out these torsional peaks, particularly for stroker crankshafts having less crank-pin overlap, generally resulting in greater torsional amplitudes.
Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
Please charles...Finish up the Fuel system,plenum,ect first before you jerk us off again
twin pumps done and in production, plenum was finished like a year ago but wont see production until sound performance is done testing it. looking for new ideas, but probably not interested in the liability of a oil pump housing.
Originally Posted by phunk
around 200 fuel systems later, i think we finished it a while ago twin pumps done and in production, plenum was finished like a year ago but wont see production until sound performance is done testing it. looking for new ideas, but probably not interested in the liability of a oil pump housing.
twin pumps done and in production, plenum was finished like a year ago but wont see production until sound performance is done testing it. looking for new ideas, but probably not interested in the liability of a oil pump housing.
Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
Not interested in the liability of an oil pump housing? But fuel systems that can potentially spray fuel all over the place and catch on fire,are less of a liability Eh.
Last edited by phunk; Oct 30, 2007 at 07:41 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 332
Likes: 1
From: South Fla.
Originally Posted by 06Track
Copied this from Pro Race for information only...
Harmonic Balancer…Crankshaft Harmonic Damper…Torsional Vibration Damper….
The term so often used for this component is harmonic balancer, which suggests the unit “balances” the engine. In generality this statement is misleading…. a better description for this component is a harmonic damper or torsional vibration damper. This better describes the actual function of the unit.
Torsional vibration occurs in the crankshaft of engines, as a result of the combustion process. The sudden reversal of load on the piston, conrod and crankshaft during compression, followed by the ignition or firing of the compressed fuel and air in the combustion chamber. Subsequent relaxation of the load following combustion causes deflection or flexing of the crankshaft. This oscillating vibration which results from the reciprocating load changes will remain in force until dissipated by internal friction or damping. At certain rpm ranges these oscillations can come into phase with each other creating potentially damaging torsional peaks in the crankshaft.
Unless the amplitude of these torsional vibrations is controlled, major damage can occur to engine components, such as rapid wear of the timing sprockets, stretching or breakage of the timing chain, pitting or cupping of the camshaft and lifters, broken valve springs and valve train failure, reduced service life of crankshaft bearings. In extreme situations uncontrolled torsional vibrations can lead to a loose flywheel or a broken crankshaft with serious safety consequences.
As explained above, the higher the horsepower output, the longer the stroke, the greater the deflection of the crankshaft. The amplitude of the resulting torsional vibration in the Crankshaft must be controlled to effectively counteract these potentially engine destroying torsional peaks, mass is required in the inertia ring for the damper to perform this function. Light weight inertia rings are less capable of adequately damping out these torsional peaks, particularly for stroker crankshafts having less crank-pin overlap, generally resulting in greater torsional amplitudes.
Harmonic Balancer…Crankshaft Harmonic Damper…Torsional Vibration Damper….
The term so often used for this component is harmonic balancer, which suggests the unit “balances” the engine. In generality this statement is misleading…. a better description for this component is a harmonic damper or torsional vibration damper. This better describes the actual function of the unit.
Torsional vibration occurs in the crankshaft of engines, as a result of the combustion process. The sudden reversal of load on the piston, conrod and crankshaft during compression, followed by the ignition or firing of the compressed fuel and air in the combustion chamber. Subsequent relaxation of the load following combustion causes deflection or flexing of the crankshaft. This oscillating vibration which results from the reciprocating load changes will remain in force until dissipated by internal friction or damping. At certain rpm ranges these oscillations can come into phase with each other creating potentially damaging torsional peaks in the crankshaft.
Unless the amplitude of these torsional vibrations is controlled, major damage can occur to engine components, such as rapid wear of the timing sprockets, stretching or breakage of the timing chain, pitting or cupping of the camshaft and lifters, broken valve springs and valve train failure, reduced service life of crankshaft bearings. In extreme situations uncontrolled torsional vibrations can lead to a loose flywheel or a broken crankshaft with serious safety consequences.
As explained above, the higher the horsepower output, the longer the stroke, the greater the deflection of the crankshaft. The amplitude of the resulting torsional vibration in the Crankshaft must be controlled to effectively counteract these potentially engine destroying torsional peaks, mass is required in the inertia ring for the damper to perform this function. Light weight inertia rings are less capable of adequately damping out these torsional peaks, particularly for stroker crankshafts having less crank-pin overlap, generally resulting in greater torsional amplitudes.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 332
Likes: 1
From: South Fla.
Originally Posted by Lawn Dart
This is a 60° V6, not an inline or opposed six. This motor will see some crazy harmonics.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 332
Likes: 1
From: South Fla.
Originally Posted by Lawn Dart
This is a 60° V6, not an inline or opposed six. This motor will see some crazy harmonics.
Originally Posted by miamimax96
Good info, but doesn't apply to the VQ IMO. The VQ crank is so short and compact that I don't think it absolutely requires a damper like long stroke V8's or Inline-6 engines do. The longer the stroke and length of a crank the more susceptible it is to DAMAGING torsional vibrations.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 332
Likes: 1
From: South Fla.
Originally Posted by QuadCam
Our stroke is more than .200" longer than a 302 ford.
Originally Posted by miamimax96
But the VQ crank is shorter, forged, has 4 bolt mains and a girdle. Again, I invite people to direct me to cases of VQ crankshafts snapping due to excessive torsional vibrations.
Originally Posted by MRC Motorsports
Oh man, I totally fell for it too....
