can you have a supercharger and twin turbo on a 350z?
11-27-2007, 01:34 PM
#41
If you were running both (lets say a stillen SC and turbonetics kit), at high RPM's where the turbo is actually producing the power and the stillen is just spinning but not increasing boost, wouldn't the parasitic drag and increased air temps cause by the SC negate a significant amount of high end HP? Yes you would have increased low end torque but it seems like this setup would be counterproductive overall.
I guess someone needs to do it though, it would be interesting if nothing else.
I guess someone needs to do it though, it would be interesting if nothing else.
11-27-2007, 02:38 PM
#42
Originally Posted by The_VQ
I think one could try to adopt the VW TSI electromagnetic clutch (this engine is also twin-charged) or the AC compressor clutch, to switch of sc?
Is it worth the money? I would probably stroke the engine to 4.2 to get similar low-range torque.
Is it worth the money? I would probably stroke the engine to 4.2 to get similar low-range torque.
11-27-2007, 06:45 PM
#43
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gilbertsville, PA
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the forced induction of the supercharger would only really work like a larger displacement engine on the turbos... essientially, they would just spool up a little lower... atleast according to what i've read in articles before.
11-29-2007, 04:05 PM
#45
The roots blower will still increase pressure driven by the turbos, it would be a intercooling nightmare. The stillen has an internal bypass valve that would essentially allow excess air around it in theory. I think that the clutch idea would be the right way to go, once boost reaches a set pressure the clutch on the blower pully would disengage and the bypass should allow air from the turbos thru. The question would be who would tune it, who would drive it and think of how many things could go wrong not discounting that these engines are easy enough to break with just turbos.
I see a lot of marine diesel engines that are sc turbo tho....
I see a lot of marine diesel engines that are sc turbo tho....
11-29-2007, 10:08 PM
#46
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dolyestown, PA
Posts: 719
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just finished reading the Hellon setup at work tonight being a American Car person i pretty much read it all. They have a really good grasp on the Roots blower with a twin turbo setup an there producing very large numbers on stock block 03-04 cobras. On low boost alone they proced over 600hp an then playing with timing an an boost pressure they managed to crank out almost 1200hp 1018tq to the wheels all on stock block. There planning on making it for 97 an up mustang but they go on to say that the application would work on other cars. There using one large front mount for cooling everything down besides that they dont have a upgraded cooling system in the car. Now our motor definitely wouldnt be able to handle that kind of power stock but i would think you could use there know how to build a setup. Right now i'm talking to a local engine builder whos going to see if he can get ahold of hellon an do some questioning for me. I myself have no intentions on building a Z motor but i would like to see if they think it could work using a Stage 3-4 Stillen an Any name brand Twin Turbo setup even though they state it would work with a single turbo setup too. After Reading it i'm pretty sure the right shop could do it if they really wanted to do an had someone providing the cash flow for the 2 FI units an a built motor. Even with 1000+ hp they said they werent even close to maxing out the turbo or blower which was a stock 03-04 cobra blower with no aftermarket pulley. They were managing 44psi to the manifold i cant remember the exact numbers of the roots blower an turbo outputs. The tuning would require a stand alone deffintly an a large fuel system.
11-30-2007, 09:35 AM
#49
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dolyestown, PA
Posts: 719
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Cube
44 psi on a stock block 4.6L.... jeebus
12-01-2007, 05:24 PM
#52
Registered User
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 520
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mid117
what a stupid ******* question
OP - go shoot yourself.
OP - go shoot yourself.
12-04-2007, 08:57 AM
#56
I just read an article in the newest MM&FF........Hellion Turbo Systems just came out with a "compound" boost system for the 03-04 mustang cobra.
Basically, that added a big twin turbo system to the already supercharged cobra. they are using twin 66mm turbonetics turbos. the roots type ford blower makes the big turbos spool up quickly and provides huge low and midrange power. without the roots type blower, the turbos would take awhile to spool, but they could have achieved greater top end HP.
At 27 PSI, the Cobra spit out 1188 rwhp and 1000+ rwtq!!!!! I believe the motor was essentially stock, too. Those "terminator" cobras came with stout forged pistons and forged rods already.
Talk about nasty!!!!
Basically, that added a big twin turbo system to the already supercharged cobra. they are using twin 66mm turbonetics turbos. the roots type ford blower makes the big turbos spool up quickly and provides huge low and midrange power. without the roots type blower, the turbos would take awhile to spool, but they could have achieved greater top end HP.
At 27 PSI, the Cobra spit out 1188 rwhp and 1000+ rwtq!!!!! I believe the motor was essentially stock, too. Those "terminator" cobras came with stout forged pistons and forged rods already.
Talk about nasty!!!!
12-04-2007, 09:06 AM
#57
At this point, you might as well do a fking motor swap. A hell of a lot cheaper. Plus you won't have a massive amount of hoses, belt wires and other doohickies all over your engine bay. Wow can you imagine breaking something and trying to find the problem?
12-24-2007, 02:37 AM
#60
Drive For Pole
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Most impressive demonstration of a 'turbo-supercharger' was the P-38 Lightning, a twin-engined fighter of WWII. They put two examples of all of this complex 'plumbing' behind the 1600 horsepower V-12 engines (each) in the two booms that also housed the main landing gear and some fuel tanks. Built in the late 1930's and through into the 1950's with thousands made it was the first fighter to go faster than 400mph. Without computers they were able to deal with the problems of widely variable air pressure, air temp, humidity, air compressibility through the intakes, etc. To make matters worse there were no computers or calculators to help design and build it. Ever hear of a 'slipstick' (the obvious puns, aside)?
Now, that was real engineering and took incredible craftsmanship to build, one right after another with no room for error since a war was on.
Damn shame we can't do that sort of work today. I wish some of those engines were setting down in military surplus now. THAT would make one hell of a project car.
As to a twin supercharger setup, look at the Koeningsegg CCXR. Beats the hell out of the Veyron. You just need cubic mega-dollars.
Now, that was real engineering and took incredible craftsmanship to build, one right after another with no room for error since a war was on.
Damn shame we can't do that sort of work today. I wish some of those engines were setting down in military surplus now. THAT would make one hell of a project car.
As to a twin supercharger setup, look at the Koeningsegg CCXR. Beats the hell out of the Veyron. You just need cubic mega-dollars.