Engine Oil Cooler Removal
12-31-2007, 11:28 AM
#21
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Well, the stock engine oil "cooler" actually does two things. It warms the oil up when the coolant temp is higher than the oil temp, and it cools the oil down when the oil temp is higher than the coolant.
During normal driving, the oil temp is normally 10-20 degrees higher than the coolant, and the stock cooler helps keep the oil tmeps down. However, when you first start up the engine in the morning, the coolant temp goes up faster than the oil temp, and it helps the oil temp get up to operating temp. Cold oil is not very good as a lubricant.
So, all in all, it doesn't make much sense to remove the stock oil cooler, even if you have a seperate oil cooler. Based on your location of "SLC", I'm guessing Salt Lake City, and they have pretty good winters there, I believe. If you drive your car in the winter, you want to keep the stock oil cooler on it in order to help get the oil up to operating temps. However, if you are just building a VQ powered 510 for track use, it doesn't really matter either way.
During normal driving, the oil temp is normally 10-20 degrees higher than the coolant, and the stock cooler helps keep the oil tmeps down. However, when you first start up the engine in the morning, the coolant temp goes up faster than the oil temp, and it helps the oil temp get up to operating temp. Cold oil is not very good as a lubricant.
So, all in all, it doesn't make much sense to remove the stock oil cooler, even if you have a seperate oil cooler. Based on your location of "SLC", I'm guessing Salt Lake City, and they have pretty good winters there, I believe. If you drive your car in the winter, you want to keep the stock oil cooler on it in order to help get the oil up to operating temps. However, if you are just building a VQ powered 510 for track use, it doesn't really matter either way.
12-31-2007, 12:36 PM
#22
Originally Posted by undrgnd
Nissan sees it differently. It is referred to as an 'oil cooler' throughout the FSM. Its purpose is to maintain oil and coolant temperatures relatively the same. It is a warmer ONLY when oil temperature is below outlet coolant temperature. It is a cooler the rest of the time. Also, the 'normal' band for most oil temperature gages runs somewhere between 200 and 275 degF, significantly above coolant temperatures.
Originally Posted by Dave 90TT
Well, the stock engine oil "cooler" actually does two things. It warms the oil up when the coolant temp is higher than the oil temp, and it cools the oil down when the oil temp is higher than the coolant.
During normal driving, the oil temp is normally 10-20 degrees higher than the coolant, and the stock cooler helps keep the oil tmeps down. However, when you first start up the engine in the morning, the coolant temp goes up faster than the oil temp, and it helps the oil temp get up to operating temp. Cold oil is not very good as a lubricant.
So, all in all, it doesn't make much sense to remove the stock oil cooler, even if you have a seperate oil cooler. Based on your location of "SLC", I'm guessing Salt Lake City, and they have pretty good winters there, I believe. If you drive your car in the winter, you want to keep the stock oil cooler on it in order to help get the oil up to operating temps. However, if you are just building a VQ powered 510 for track use, it doesn't really matter either way.
During normal driving, the oil temp is normally 10-20 degrees higher than the coolant, and the stock cooler helps keep the oil tmeps down. However, when you first start up the engine in the morning, the coolant temp goes up faster than the oil temp, and it helps the oil temp get up to operating temp. Cold oil is not very good as a lubricant.
So, all in all, it doesn't make much sense to remove the stock oil cooler, even if you have a seperate oil cooler. Based on your location of "SLC", I'm guessing Salt Lake City, and they have pretty good winters there, I believe. If you drive your car in the winter, you want to keep the stock oil cooler on it in order to help get the oil up to operating temps. However, if you are just building a VQ powered 510 for track use, it doesn't really matter either way.
12-31-2007, 01:28 PM
#23
Originally Posted by Dave 90TT
Well, the stock engine oil "cooler" actually does two things. It warms the oil up when the coolant temp is higher than the oil temp, and it cools the oil down when the oil temp is higher than the coolant.
During normal driving, the oil temp is normally 10-20 degrees higher than the coolant, and the stock cooler helps keep the oil tmeps down. However, when you first start up the engine in the morning, the coolant temp goes up faster than the oil temp, and it helps the oil temp get up to operating temp. Cold oil is not very good as a lubricant.
So, all in all, it doesn't make much sense to remove the stock oil cooler, even if you have a seperate oil cooler. Based on your location of "SLC", I'm guessing Salt Lake City, and they have pretty good winters there, I believe. If you drive your car in the winter, you want to keep the stock oil cooler on it in order to help get the oil up to operating temps. However, if you are just building a VQ powered 510 for track use, it doesn't really matter either way.
During normal driving, the oil temp is normally 10-20 degrees higher than the coolant, and the stock cooler helps keep the oil tmeps down. However, when you first start up the engine in the morning, the coolant temp goes up faster than the oil temp, and it helps the oil temp get up to operating temp. Cold oil is not very good as a lubricant.
So, all in all, it doesn't make much sense to remove the stock oil cooler, even if you have a seperate oil cooler. Based on your location of "SLC", I'm guessing Salt Lake City, and they have pretty good winters there, I believe. If you drive your car in the winter, you want to keep the stock oil cooler on it in order to help get the oil up to operating temps. However, if you are just building a VQ powered 510 for track use, it doesn't really matter either way.
12-31-2007, 01:30 PM
#24
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I was just looking for a little more input on the possible long term effects of removing the OEM oil cooler/warmer since it seems like it has it's good points & bad points. I'm in the habit of removing all of the less than necessary stuff to clean up the engine bay & make it easier to work on things.
I won't be driving the 510 in the winter (snow & salt), but it may see some cold mornings, so it seems like a toss-up for me. I'll probably leave it for now, even though I really dislike how Nissan routed the really long line that comes from the driver's side upper pipe. I haven't seen an HR engine up close but from the pics it looks like the engineers got smart & did a better job of routing coolant lines.
One thing to mention that may shed some light on the discussion is what I've observed with Honda engines having owned a couple Preludes. The F22 engine found in earlier Preludes & Accords & is a fairly utilitarian engine has no Oil Cooler. While the more performance oriented H22 vtec engine does. You would think that if an oil cooler had a significant "warming" effect that increases the longevity of an engine that Honda would've put it on the F22 engines as well. Since they only put it on the higher reving H22's it leads me to believe that it's main function is an oil cooler (as it is called) & the warming aspect is simply a byproduct of how it works. This makes me wonder how significant/beneficial the "warming" effect is?
I guess the only way to find out would be to start to stock cars up on a cold morning, one with an OEM oil cooler & one without, both having coolant & oil temp sensors, & see how much variation there is between the rates that the oil temps rise.
My 100th post!!!! I'm a veteran now.
I won't be driving the 510 in the winter (snow & salt), but it may see some cold mornings, so it seems like a toss-up for me. I'll probably leave it for now, even though I really dislike how Nissan routed the really long line that comes from the driver's side upper pipe. I haven't seen an HR engine up close but from the pics it looks like the engineers got smart & did a better job of routing coolant lines.
One thing to mention that may shed some light on the discussion is what I've observed with Honda engines having owned a couple Preludes. The F22 engine found in earlier Preludes & Accords & is a fairly utilitarian engine has no Oil Cooler. While the more performance oriented H22 vtec engine does. You would think that if an oil cooler had a significant "warming" effect that increases the longevity of an engine that Honda would've put it on the F22 engines as well. Since they only put it on the higher reving H22's it leads me to believe that it's main function is an oil cooler (as it is called) & the warming aspect is simply a byproduct of how it works. This makes me wonder how significant/beneficial the "warming" effect is?
I guess the only way to find out would be to start to stock cars up on a cold morning, one with an OEM oil cooler & one without, both having coolant & oil temp sensors, & see how much variation there is between the rates that the oil temps rise.
My 100th post!!!! I'm a veteran now.
Last edited by xlr8r; 12-31-2007 at 01:35 PM.
12-31-2007, 01:48 PM
#25
I don't see how that "oil cooler" can possibly have much of an effect on cooling the oil temps. It doesn't have much cooling area and using 185 degree coolant to cool your oil isn't very effective!
I truly believe that this is more of a warming device. As part of stricter and stricter emissions regualtions, OEMs need to have the engine up to operating temps as quickly as possible to achieve the best emmissions outputs. Rememebr that the VQ35 received the ULEV (ultra low emissions vehicle) certification. It wouldn't surprise me if getting the oil up to operating temperature as quickly as possible helps the VQ35 achieve better start-up emissions.
I truly believe that this is more of a warming device. As part of stricter and stricter emissions regualtions, OEMs need to have the engine up to operating temps as quickly as possible to achieve the best emmissions outputs. Rememebr that the VQ35 received the ULEV (ultra low emissions vehicle) certification. It wouldn't surprise me if getting the oil up to operating temperature as quickly as possible helps the VQ35 achieve better start-up emissions.
12-31-2007, 01:49 PM
#27
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well I wouldn't remove it without adding an external oil cooler which will provide better oil cooling, and if you have cold weather get one with a thermal switch to help warm up the oil after startup, living in South Florida cold weather was not an issue for me
12-31-2007, 02:04 PM
#28
Originally Posted by xlr8r
I was just looking for a little more input on the possible long term effects of removing the OEM oil cooler/warmer since it seems like it has it's good points & bad points. I'm in the habit of removing all of the less than necessary stuff to clean up the engine bay & make it easier to work on things.
I won't be driving the 510 in the winter (snow & salt), but it may see some cold mornings, so it seems like a toss-up for me. I'll probably leave it for now, even though I really dislike how Nissan routed the really long line that comes from the driver's side upper pipe. I haven't seen an HR engine up close but from the pics it looks like the engineers got smart & did a better job of routing coolant lines.
One thing to mention that may shed some light on the discussion is what I've observed with Honda engines having owned a couple Preludes. The F22 engine found in earlier Preludes & Accords & is a fairly utilitarian engine has no Oil Cooler. While the more performance oriented H22 vtec engine does. You would think that if an oil cooler had a significant "warming" effect that increases the longevity of an engine that Honda would've put it on the F22 engines as well. Since they only put it on the higher reving H22's it leads me to believe that it's main function is an oil cooler (as it is called) & the warming aspect is simply a byproduct of how it works. This makes me wonder how significant/beneficial the "warming" effect is?
I guess the only way to find out would be to start to stock cars up on a cold morning, one with an OEM oil cooler & one without, both having coolant & oil temp sensors, & see how much variation there is between the rates that the oil temps rise.
My 100th post!!!! I'm a veteran now.
I won't be driving the 510 in the winter (snow & salt), but it may see some cold mornings, so it seems like a toss-up for me. I'll probably leave it for now, even though I really dislike how Nissan routed the really long line that comes from the driver's side upper pipe. I haven't seen an HR engine up close but from the pics it looks like the engineers got smart & did a better job of routing coolant lines.
One thing to mention that may shed some light on the discussion is what I've observed with Honda engines having owned a couple Preludes. The F22 engine found in earlier Preludes & Accords & is a fairly utilitarian engine has no Oil Cooler. While the more performance oriented H22 vtec engine does. You would think that if an oil cooler had a significant "warming" effect that increases the longevity of an engine that Honda would've put it on the F22 engines as well. Since they only put it on the higher reving H22's it leads me to believe that it's main function is an oil cooler (as it is called) & the warming aspect is simply a byproduct of how it works. This makes me wonder how significant/beneficial the "warming" effect is?
I guess the only way to find out would be to start to stock cars up on a cold morning, one with an OEM oil cooler & one without, both having coolant & oil temp sensors, & see how much variation there is between the rates that the oil temps rise.
My 100th post!!!! I'm a veteran now.
12-31-2007, 02:05 PM
#29
Originally Posted by QuadCam
Larry,
did you get you cooler installed yet?
did you get you cooler installed yet?
JET
12-31-2007, 02:13 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by undrgnd
Your 100th post didn't necessarily make you an automotive wizard. Most of us have owned Hondas at one time or another, and many other cars to boot. Does Honda use engine coolant for cooling the H22 oil cooler? If not, then it performs no warming function but probably has a thermostat for bypassing oil flow around the cooler until needed. And concluding what Honda engineers had in mind by a simple observation is an oversimplification. We don't need to run a battery of tests to figure out what the 350Z cooler/warmer does, as if that would tell us anything. The effects of running cold oil to an engine are cumulative when it comes to longevity, but probably will effect drivability and emissions. I'm satisfied that Nissan knew what they were doing when they added this, and it certainly makes good sense.
Running a test like the one I described would help determine in the water is doing much to warm the oil vs. combustion/engine operation alone. If the difference is significant then keeping the oil cooler/warmer is of benefit. If the difference in oil temps rising is minimal (or the same) then it seems an OEM oil cooler can be removed a replaced with an thermostat controlled aftermarket cooler with no ill effects.
12-31-2007, 02:18 PM
#31
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Well, I have an accurate oil temp gauge, and also have an OBD II reader I use to read the water temp, and I can tell you, the water temp gets to operating temperature much quicker than the oil does.
12-31-2007, 02:22 PM
#32
yeah my car gets to 140 degrees coolant temp after like a minute and my oil temp still reads as being under 100 which is as low as the gauge reads. The oil temp doesn't even start to get past 100 degrees for like 3-4 minutes. All depends on how cold it is outside of course.
I'd think having a larger oil pan makes it even that much harder to get the oil up to temp.
I'd think having a larger oil pan makes it even that much harder to get the oil up to temp.
01-26-2008, 03:12 PM
#33
Anyone else have pics to share to get some ideas flowing with an example of maybe how they plugged or welded the piping shut... I think I will be replacing the stock oil cooler/warmer with aftermarket as well and eliminate some of the piping on the car in an effort to simplify a bit.
01-26-2008, 08:00 PM
#35
I am going to be removing my "oil warmer/cooler" from my car. I haven't had the pipes welded shut yet, but I have already started working on some of the other parts.......removed the nipples from the thermostat housing and also removed the nipples from the rear water pipe. I am using NPT plugs to close those holes up. I have already drilled and tapped those pieces. When I do this, I take pics of everything.
speaking of pics, can anyone show exactly what they had to do to the stock fitting that holds the oil cooler in place. can you just shorten the fitting and then clean up the threads?
speaking of pics, can anyone show exactly what they had to do to the stock fitting that holds the oil cooler in place. can you just shorten the fitting and then clean up the threads?
01-26-2008, 08:43 PM
#36
Originally Posted by QuadCam
I am going to be removing my "oil warmer/cooler" from my car. I haven't had the pipes welded shut yet, but I have already started working on some of the other parts.......removed the nipples from the thermostat housing and also removed the nipples from the rear water pipe. I am using NPT plugs to close those holes up. I have already drilled and tapped those pieces. When I do this, I take pics of everything.
speaking of pics, can anyone show exactly what they had to do to the stock fitting that holds the oil cooler in place. can you just shorten the fitting and then clean up the threads?
speaking of pics, can anyone show exactly what they had to do to the stock fitting that holds the oil cooler in place. can you just shorten the fitting and then clean up the threads?
I don't think anyone has just removed the "stabilizer" and just put the filter on. Most people do it and put sandwich plates in for an oil cooler.
Def interested to see what you figure out. I may just leave the unit on but open. Even though the coolant is not going through it anymore the oil is still in a closed loop so there should be no down side to leaving it on there but not connected other then looks.
01-27-2008, 03:24 PM
#38
Originally Posted by Quamen
I don't think anyone has just removed the "stabilizer" and just put the filter on. Most people do it and put sandwich plates in for an oil cooler.
Def interested to see what you figure out. I may just leave the unit on but open. Even though the coolant is not going through it anymore the oil is still in a closed loop so there should be no down side to leaving it on there but not connected other then looks.
Def interested to see what you figure out. I may just leave the unit on but open. Even though the coolant is not going through it anymore the oil is still in a closed loop so there should be no down side to leaving it on there but not connected other then looks.
I just want to know if the original fastener (I don't want to call it a bolt because it is hollow) that holds the OEM oil cooler in place can be used on an aftermarket sandwich plate?
In other words if I replace what is above (the OEM) oil cooler, with this piece...the mocal will the original fastener fit?
Last edited by rrmedicx; 01-27-2008 at 03:28 PM.
01-27-2008, 06:40 PM
#39
Originally Posted by Quamen
Oh and I didn't even think of an NPT plug for some of the holes I have plugged. Good thinking!!
the 2 nipples on the coolant pipe that connects to the heads are easily blocked off by drilling and tapping for a 1/8 NPT plug.
The nipple on the thermostat is the perfect size for a 3/8" NPT plug.
I used my cut-off wheel to cut the nipples off flush and then I used my drill press to line up the holes to be drilled. I wasn't sure if the 3/8" NPT was going to be too big for the T-stat housing, but it turned out to be perfect! I'll use aluminum plugs and probably put some loctite on the threads.
I'll post up pics in the next couple of days.
Last edited by QuadCam; 01-27-2008 at 06:42 PM.
01-27-2008, 09:23 PM
#40
Originally Posted by QuadCam
the 2 nipples on the coolant pipe that connects to the heads are easily blocked off by drilling and tapping for a 1/8 NPT plug.
The nipple on the thermostat is the perfect size for a 3/8" NPT plug.
I used my cut-off wheel to cut the nipples off flush and then I used my drill press to line up the holes to be drilled. I wasn't sure if the 3/8" NPT was going to be too big for the T-stat housing, but it turned out to be perfect! I'll use aluminum plugs and probably put some loctite on the threads.
I'll post up pics in the next couple of days.
I welded mine shut and then machined it flush after I pressed the steel nipple out of the thermostat.
The tube that was for the bypass hose (right next to the thermostat) is now a -10AN weld fitting with a cap but will be accessable if I need more coolant flow from the radiator with my setup.