why buy supercharger?
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From: Fayetteville, NC but from 757
With my Vortech and other mods I've added nearly 200hp to the rear wheels since my first dyno when I was mostly stock. I'd guess most of us who go with a supercharger do so for many reasons, like cost, no need to build the motor, it's easy to install yourself exc.
It's may not run with the turbo guys, but it's still a lot of fun, the blower whine gets peoples attention. It sounds way cool and has plenty of power for a street car.
It's may not run with the turbo guys, but it's still a lot of fun, the blower whine gets peoples attention. It sounds way cool and has plenty of power for a street car.
Well said, I too am pushing 400whp and have only the 3.12.
I'm having hella fun with my procharger and that famous whiiiiiiiiine sound. I' m at 381whp with the 9psi pulley set up with emanage ultimate and non built motor. Now, I gonna tune with utec, cosworth plenum, 550cc and basic fuel return system. I'm sure I'll hit the 400whp mark this time.... again I really dont want to build the motor but get as much as I can safely and enjoy the car. Thats my only goal. oh and yeah its faster.
Last edited by SILKZ03; Jan 20, 2009 at 10:06 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: San Diego
99.5% of people cannot get anywhere near sub 11.8's with a vortech. i'd so turbo if i was you. You'll buy a blower and be pissed its not fast. With linear power and torque, it doesnt put you in the back of your seat like a turbo.
so i am telling you its not worth it based on your original post.
so i am telling you its not worth it based on your original post.
To the OP: you need to decide what your intentions are and seek out the F/I kit that meets your needs. Even when comparing SCs, there are 4 choices and each of the kits bring different pros and cons to the table. Do you want low end torque or high end HP? Do you intend to drag, drift or use the car for road course? Your intentions for the car should weigh heavily on which kit you put on the car.
thank you another very good answer 
i was looking for about 370whp for daily driving, and tuning is 1st thing on the list been there done that with my volvo on bad tuning.
was allso woundering if a 370whp+ supercharger is alot more noticalbe then a 330+whp. and i see the vortech mph are better then the hks 1/4 mile wise, why is that? dirver error or the vortech just better? i wanted to go hks cause id like to work the fcon it comes with.
and to dhwang80 money dont really matter i perfer fun over money, but i cant put out the 10k+ on a twin turbo kit just for my volvo that maybe has 4k of upgrades in it to blow it away
i was looking for about 370whp for daily driving, and tuning is 1st thing on the list been there done that with my volvo on bad tuning.was allso woundering if a 370whp+ supercharger is alot more noticalbe then a 330+whp. and i see the vortech mph are better then the hks 1/4 mile wise, why is that? dirver error or the vortech just better? i wanted to go hks cause id like to work the fcon it comes with.
and to dhwang80 money dont really matter i perfer fun over money, but i cant put out the 10k+ on a twin turbo kit just for my volvo that maybe has 4k of upgrades in it to blow it away
there's lots of reasons to go with a centrifugal supercharger over a turbo, but there's lots of reasons to go with a turbo instead as well.
So it's going to come down to what fits you better.
Here's some quick reasons why someone might pick a supercharger over a turbo:
- They're VERY friendly with NA parts. If you already tried going far with NA parts such as headers, HF cats, shorter gearing, dual exhaust, etc. A vortech/ATI/HKS will bolt right on and work perfect with all those parts. If you went turbo, you'd want to ditch all those parts you just bought and buy ones that work well with a turbo (though dual exhaust works with TT's, and HF cats work with all turbos except most people go with straight pipe)
- CARB legal for the vortech
- You can install it in your garage without having to get under the engine to change the exhaust manifold piping around
- Some people want the linear powerband for the consistency in power and boost for each gear. It also lends itself to getting and maintaining traction automatically (for most people, depending on power and tires)
- Superchargers have never really damaged rods or pistons unless that person was really pushing high 400's whp or close to 400 tq and either drove the car hard on the track, or drove it hard irrisponsibly with a lean or untuned A/F. In almost all cases when the person wasn't asking for it, when something did go wrong it was a minor or slowly damaged engine. I wasn't a fatal rod through the block sort of case.
- Some people believe having a high load and high tq at low rpms is bad for the engine and think the psi/stress should be proportionate to the rpms you're at, hence the linear psi curve
- Some people like the idea of a the centrifugal supercharger encouraging you to be more active and better with you downshifting to stay in the upper power band and using the gearbox more vs the "lazy shifting" style with a turbo setup since turbos can develop high boost at low rpms while in high gears so you might not bother to downshift. The school of thought with a centrifugal supercharger is: if you want to go fast, you should be downshifting anyway and that's right where the high boost of the supercharger is.
- It's really easy to disable or uninstall a supercharger and go back to stock. It's usually a little more involved with a turbo. Some turbo kits can't go 100% back to stock. In the case of the vortech, you don't even have to tap the upper oil pan and if you did, it can still be welded back up.
- There's more minor maintenance involved with a supercharger like adjusting belt tension about 2 times a year with the cold/hot weather changes, or the occasional bearing going bad, but they're easier things to deal with than a problem with a turbo. If the blower goes bad, you can still drive the car without it while it's sent off for repairs. If the turbo goes bad, you're not going to be driving your car and unless you like reinstalling exhaust manifolds a lot, the car will have to sit until you get the turbo put back on.
- NA and superchargers use 2D tuning maps with rpms vs throttle being variables while boost is consistent since it's mechanically tied to the rpms via the belt. Perfect turbo tuning needs the ability to tune 3D maps where rpms, throttle, and boost are variables. Most low priced EMS's (including utec) only offer 2D tuning maps and so unless you pick out an EMS that can properly handle true 3D maps, there's always going to be some risk involved with having the tune not account for certain situations where the boost might be different from when it was tuned. So this can put your sensors, cats, or the engine itself at risk. A tuner might tune a car in one or two gears on a dyno and try to find a good middle ground and do a good job with what the EMS can do, but a 2D EMS they can't truly take into account how the boost curve might be different in different gears or even within the same gear when you start going WOT at different rpms.
- Some people prefer the supercharger jet engine sound instead of the higher pitched turbo sound.
- Some people don't like the change in exhaust sound with a turbo since a turbo acts as a muffler in the exhaust.
- This hobby is expensive. If you go with a supercharger, you probably won't be as tempted to shoot for over 500whp and all the money that's involved with trying to do that. Though some of us have attempted it anyway and it's true you'll always want more, but for some people the whole million hp/***** size notion is completely lame. I'm all for using the newer breeds of street legal R-compounds and they do work well, but there's a certain point where you get diminishing returns on usable power for the street. You'll probably either run out of traction, or road
- Driving around town, people will know your car is modified or running something crazy because you hear can the jet engine and whine of the blower even at idle. It's not as stealth as a turbo is.
- In hot climates, some people don't like the idea of a red hot turbo being tucked away into the engine bay, or hanging off the rear of the car.
- Some people are not happy or comfortable with the affordable single turbo options out there, but don't want to spend the money to go TT or the powerlabs big single turbo.
So they're not all good reasons, and mostly all subjective. There's counter sides to all those too where someone might prefer a turbo.
If you want a huge sudden punch of torque, then go with a turbo.
If you want more of a subtle "drivers car" pick a centrifugal supercharger.
It's similar to the difference between a 911 turbo and 911 GT3
So it's going to come down to what fits you better.
Here's some quick reasons why someone might pick a supercharger over a turbo:
- They're VERY friendly with NA parts. If you already tried going far with NA parts such as headers, HF cats, shorter gearing, dual exhaust, etc. A vortech/ATI/HKS will bolt right on and work perfect with all those parts. If you went turbo, you'd want to ditch all those parts you just bought and buy ones that work well with a turbo (though dual exhaust works with TT's, and HF cats work with all turbos except most people go with straight pipe)
- CARB legal for the vortech
- You can install it in your garage without having to get under the engine to change the exhaust manifold piping around
- Some people want the linear powerband for the consistency in power and boost for each gear. It also lends itself to getting and maintaining traction automatically (for most people, depending on power and tires)
- Superchargers have never really damaged rods or pistons unless that person was really pushing high 400's whp or close to 400 tq and either drove the car hard on the track, or drove it hard irrisponsibly with a lean or untuned A/F. In almost all cases when the person wasn't asking for it, when something did go wrong it was a minor or slowly damaged engine. I wasn't a fatal rod through the block sort of case.
- Some people believe having a high load and high tq at low rpms is bad for the engine and think the psi/stress should be proportionate to the rpms you're at, hence the linear psi curve
- Some people like the idea of a the centrifugal supercharger encouraging you to be more active and better with you downshifting to stay in the upper power band and using the gearbox more vs the "lazy shifting" style with a turbo setup since turbos can develop high boost at low rpms while in high gears so you might not bother to downshift. The school of thought with a centrifugal supercharger is: if you want to go fast, you should be downshifting anyway and that's right where the high boost of the supercharger is.
- It's really easy to disable or uninstall a supercharger and go back to stock. It's usually a little more involved with a turbo. Some turbo kits can't go 100% back to stock. In the case of the vortech, you don't even have to tap the upper oil pan and if you did, it can still be welded back up.
- There's more minor maintenance involved with a supercharger like adjusting belt tension about 2 times a year with the cold/hot weather changes, or the occasional bearing going bad, but they're easier things to deal with than a problem with a turbo. If the blower goes bad, you can still drive the car without it while it's sent off for repairs. If the turbo goes bad, you're not going to be driving your car and unless you like reinstalling exhaust manifolds a lot, the car will have to sit until you get the turbo put back on.
- NA and superchargers use 2D tuning maps with rpms vs throttle being variables while boost is consistent since it's mechanically tied to the rpms via the belt. Perfect turbo tuning needs the ability to tune 3D maps where rpms, throttle, and boost are variables. Most low priced EMS's (including utec) only offer 2D tuning maps and so unless you pick out an EMS that can properly handle true 3D maps, there's always going to be some risk involved with having the tune not account for certain situations where the boost might be different from when it was tuned. So this can put your sensors, cats, or the engine itself at risk. A tuner might tune a car in one or two gears on a dyno and try to find a good middle ground and do a good job with what the EMS can do, but a 2D EMS they can't truly take into account how the boost curve might be different in different gears or even within the same gear when you start going WOT at different rpms.
- Some people prefer the supercharger jet engine sound instead of the higher pitched turbo sound.
- Some people don't like the change in exhaust sound with a turbo since a turbo acts as a muffler in the exhaust.
- This hobby is expensive. If you go with a supercharger, you probably won't be as tempted to shoot for over 500whp and all the money that's involved with trying to do that. Though some of us have attempted it anyway and it's true you'll always want more, but for some people the whole million hp/***** size notion is completely lame. I'm all for using the newer breeds of street legal R-compounds and they do work well, but there's a certain point where you get diminishing returns on usable power for the street. You'll probably either run out of traction, or road
- Driving around town, people will know your car is modified or running something crazy because you hear can the jet engine and whine of the blower even at idle. It's not as stealth as a turbo is.
- In hot climates, some people don't like the idea of a red hot turbo being tucked away into the engine bay, or hanging off the rear of the car.
- Some people are not happy or comfortable with the affordable single turbo options out there, but don't want to spend the money to go TT or the powerlabs big single turbo.
So they're not all good reasons, and mostly all subjective. There's counter sides to all those too where someone might prefer a turbo.
If you want a huge sudden punch of torque, then go with a turbo.
If you want more of a subtle "drivers car" pick a centrifugal supercharger.
It's similar to the difference between a 911 turbo and 911 GT3
Last edited by sentry65; Jan 19, 2009 at 11:38 PM.
Well said bro.....well said....started to tear up. Its all about your personal goals. I don't track my car (no track) but I love the power on the highway. I have a vented hood so that famous whiiiiiiiiine can be heard rollin slow down the street....people know you boosted. My personal goal wasn't to build internals but get as much as I can without it. Yes...this sheet is addictive....never had crack but i guess BOOST is as close as it comes. I thought I was satisfied with 381whp but like the guys on the Darkside say..."you find yourself chasing Hp" after awhile and spending more money doing it. My personal goal is to hit the 400whp without building internals. As said on previous threads....its all bout your goals, needs and FINANCES. Bottomline, If you don't think you will be keeping the SC...you'd better go turbo from the jump and save youself time and money switching. Just my .02 ...Good luck dawg!
Last edited by SILKZ03; Jan 26, 2009 at 10:43 AM.
imo ...op needs to use lurk for a little while in the FI threads, and just read around to get a better idea of whats going on... are u gonna need to be inspected? if so what type of inspection can u get by? power goals?are u going to build the motor? return fuel system? injectors? who is tuning? what are they capable of tuning? tuning does take different softwares.. u asked if u need to buy the vortech blower seperate from the kit so that there is enough info for me to realize u need to read up on what u are looking into doing and ur budget and what comes with what
a supercharger is an easy install...while a turbo kit is not so easy and much more to it...so right there u can prolly install a supercharger kit yourself or spend 1500-2000 on a turbo kit install right off the bat..? u need gauges, plugs etc...and supporting mods for FI to be safe..
I'll say this, butt dyno wise 350whp ST/TT > 350whp SC. Might be close on the track, but it doesn't feel that way because of the extra torque from the Turbo(s).
This has probably been already said, but SC is cheaper than ST/TT because of all the extra safety precautions you need to take not including the easier install. Overboosting is never an issue with SC's and obviously less wear on internals due to linear power/torque buildup.
This has probably been already said, but SC is cheaper than ST/TT because of all the extra safety precautions you need to take not including the easier install. Overboosting is never an issue with SC's and obviously less wear on internals due to linear power/torque buildup.
I assume you meant 1/4 mile...
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