sleeved engine nightmares
06-19-2009, 05:53 PM
#21
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had 615 rwhp on my previous set-up at 13 pounds of boost I hope to get a minimum of 725 rwhp I ran the car 3 years ago and was able to run a 11.3 on the 1/4. I still want to be the first g35 to run a 10 sec on the 1/4.
Last edited by carlosG; 06-19-2009 at 06:04 PM.
06-19-2009, 06:00 PM
#23
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Puerto Rico
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The car has the thermostat housing, the car only has 50 miles of break-in at low boost. I did purged the system, but do you have to do a separate purge for the heater?
06-19-2009, 09:52 PM
#24
Registered User
Well, now we have shown that 800rwhp is no problem on stock sleeves....matter of fact, 900rwhp doesn't seem out of the question either...we shall see....
so unless you are looking for 1xxxrwhp....and deeeeeeep into the single digits in the 1/4 with crazy (like 150+mph)...then stock sleeves are probably fine.
tom
so unless you are looking for 1xxxrwhp....and deeeeeeep into the single digits in the 1/4 with crazy (like 150+mph)...then stock sleeves are probably fine.
tom
06-20-2009, 05:55 AM
#26
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (564)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 19,266
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
Well, now we have shown that 800rwhp is no problem on stock sleeves....matter of fact, 900rwhp doesn't seem out of the question either...we shall see....
so unless you are looking for 1xxxrwhp....and deeeeeeep into the single digits in the 1/4 with crazy (like 150+mph)...then stock sleeves are probably fine.
tom
so unless you are looking for 1xxxrwhp....and deeeeeeep into the single digits in the 1/4 with crazy (like 150+mph)...then stock sleeves are probably fine.
tom
I think that statement should be qualified a bit. I would not go so far to say that a couple of engines that have done it necessarily means it's fine. Time is the great equalizer of these types of things as age and mileage can have interesting effects on things. Definitely a good thing to see more people push the limits - it's how everyone else can learn.
Let's not forget too that some engine configurations will require the use of an aftermarket sleeve. I do agree though that they may have been overpresribed in the early days, but that is a compound issue. There are far too many assemblers out there, and far too few builders. This is a problem every community has, and I think, especially this one. I have never been in a community where people are subject to building their 2nd, 3rd, 4th built engine that is nothing more than a street car (despite what tales of fiction they or their shop might lead them to believe) and others are on their 1st. The second thing is time. Engines need time in the hands of truly experienced people, with the time and money to experiment to see where the boundries truly lay. Time is the great equalizer. When an engine is new, the common trend of your average shop, and your average consumer, is to toss everything and the kitchen sink at it, all in the name of reliability. This is a community that seems to reward the mod list in the signature, rather than the process by which a truly successful build is achieved. A community that thinks researching to death the internet-fed nuances of one forged $200 piston vs another is suddenly going to mean rousing success or imminent failure, yet doesn't spend nearly that amount of time researching who is clearancing their block for said pistons. There are plenty of people who had all the best stuff money could buy, and ignored, or took for granted, the most important ingredient of all.
To the OP - start with the simple stuff first. For example
Does the heater inside the car work? Does it blow hot air or does it not warm up?
Are there noticeable differences in temperature between your upper and lower radiator hoses?
Last edited by Z1 Performance; 06-20-2009 at 06:03 AM.
06-21-2009, 07:37 PM
#27
Registered User
Very true, thats why I picked a shop that has done many higher hp builds than my car could ever hope to attain.
tom
tom
Let's not forget too that some engine configurations will require the use of an aftermarket sleeve. I do agree though that they may have been overpresribed in the early days, but that is a compound issue. There are far too many assemblers out there, and far too few builders. This is a problem every community has, and I think, especially this one. I have never been in a community where people are subject to building their 2nd, 3rd, 4th built engine that is nothing more than a street car (despite what tales of fiction they or their shop might lead them to believe) and others are on their 1st. The second thing is time. Engines need time in the hands of truly experienced people, with the time and money to experiment to see where the boundries truly lay. Time is the great equalizer. When an engine is new, the common trend of your average shop, and your average consumer, is to toss everything and the kitchen sink at it, all in the name of reliability. This is a community that seems to reward the mod list in the signature, rather than the process by which a truly successful build is achieved. A community that thinks researching to death the internet-fed nuances of one forged $200 piston vs another is suddenly going to mean rousing success or imminent failure, yet doesn't spend nearly that amount of time researching who is clearancing their block for said pistons. There are plenty of people who had all the best stuff money could buy, and ignored, or took for granted, the most important ingredient of all.
06-22-2009, 03:07 PM
#29
I think that statement should be qualified a bit. I would not go so far to say that a couple of engines that have done it necessarily means it's fine. Time is the great equalizer of these types of things as age and mileage can have interesting effects on things. Definitely a good thing to see more people push the limits - it's how everyone else can learn.
Let's not forget too that some engine configurations will require the use of an aftermarket sleeve. I do agree though that they may have been overpresribed in the early days, but that is a compound issue. There are far too many assemblers out there, and far too few builders. This is a problem every community has, and I think, especially this one. I have never been in a community where people are subject to building their 2nd, 3rd, 4th built engine that is nothing more than a street car (despite what tales of fiction they or their shop might lead them to believe) and others are on their 1st. The second thing is time. Engines need time in the hands of truly experienced people, with the time and money to experiment to see where the boundries truly lay. Time is the great equalizer. When an engine is new, the common trend of your average shop, and your average consumer, is to toss everything and the kitchen sink at it, all in the name of reliability. This is a community that seems to reward the mod list in the signature, rather than the process by which a truly successful build is achieved. A community that thinks researching to death the internet-fed nuances of one forged $200 piston vs another is suddenly going to mean rousing success or imminent failure, yet doesn't spend nearly that amount of time researching who is clearancing their block for said pistons. There are plenty of people who had all the best stuff money could buy, and ignored, or took for granted, the most important ingredient of all.
To the OP - start with the simple stuff first. For example
Does the heater inside the car work? Does it blow hot air or does it not warm up?
Are there noticeable differences in temperature between your upper and lower radiator hoses?
Let's not forget too that some engine configurations will require the use of an aftermarket sleeve. I do agree though that they may have been overpresribed in the early days, but that is a compound issue. There are far too many assemblers out there, and far too few builders. This is a problem every community has, and I think, especially this one. I have never been in a community where people are subject to building their 2nd, 3rd, 4th built engine that is nothing more than a street car (despite what tales of fiction they or their shop might lead them to believe) and others are on their 1st. The second thing is time. Engines need time in the hands of truly experienced people, with the time and money to experiment to see where the boundries truly lay. Time is the great equalizer. When an engine is new, the common trend of your average shop, and your average consumer, is to toss everything and the kitchen sink at it, all in the name of reliability. This is a community that seems to reward the mod list in the signature, rather than the process by which a truly successful build is achieved. A community that thinks researching to death the internet-fed nuances of one forged $200 piston vs another is suddenly going to mean rousing success or imminent failure, yet doesn't spend nearly that amount of time researching who is clearancing their block for said pistons. There are plenty of people who had all the best stuff money could buy, and ignored, or took for granted, the most important ingredient of all.
To the OP - start with the simple stuff first. For example
Does the heater inside the car work? Does it blow hot air or does it not warm up?
Are there noticeable differences in temperature between your upper and lower radiator hoses?
02-03-2011, 12:56 PM
#30
Hal, are you still sending your blocks to be sleeved by Darton West Coast or are they all done in house now?
I disagree entirely about sending to Darton, unless you are referring to Darton West Coast. I don't know if their east coast install facility (ERL) has corrected their practice of Darton sleeve installation but we had two out of two VQ failures when we gave them a chance two years ago. After speaking with Darton they said West coast and East coast use two different finishing methods. Since that time ERL has asked multiple times to regain our business, but I will not send another block there and take another chance with them due to the time and money involved with fixing any mistakes/problems. Our current machine shop (now moving in house) has never let us down including many daily driven sleeved VQs to our drag car at 1000+whp.
It is sad to hear the bandwagon against sleeves which came about after a number of sleeve failures which I feel confident were due to faulty installation/builds and not the sleeves. For anyone under 500 or 600 horsepower I don't see any problem going unsleeved, but above that for any period of time is still uncharted territory and taking an expensive risk. Even Intense Power, who holds the unsleeved horsepower record, only uses "roughly 600whp" on the street/track and says,
"You know that Han's widebody G doesn't have a sleeved motor. While it can achieve 900+whp on a non-load based dyno such as a DJ, it would be foolish to run the car at that power level while under load on the track and expect the stock sleeves to withstand repeated 1/4 mile passes."
It is sad to hear the bandwagon against sleeves which came about after a number of sleeve failures which I feel confident were due to faulty installation/builds and not the sleeves. For anyone under 500 or 600 horsepower I don't see any problem going unsleeved, but above that for any period of time is still uncharted territory and taking an expensive risk. Even Intense Power, who holds the unsleeved horsepower record, only uses "roughly 600whp" on the street/track and says,
"You know that Han's widebody G doesn't have a sleeved motor. While it can achieve 900+whp on a non-load based dyno such as a DJ, it would be foolish to run the car at that power level while under load on the track and expect the stock sleeves to withstand repeated 1/4 mile passes."
02-03-2011, 07:36 PM
#33
Send it to Darton West coast or Injected
, i am going to have my block decked and give it one more try before the block and maybe the whole car end up at the bottom of Sylvan Lake 
Unfortunately only remedy is to disassemble back to bare block have them make sure the sleeves are down and redeck the block and hope you have enough left in the block or you will then have issues with the rear timing case not lining up with the heads properly, I barely made it when I rebuilt it after that.
Also make sure they open up the cooling hole that is partially blocked now by the sleeve, my machine shop missed that the first time and I am amazed the coolant made it into the block
Also make sure they open up the cooling hole that is partially blocked now by the sleeve, my machine shop missed that the first time and I am amazed the coolant made it into the block
Last edited by Sylvan Lake V35; 02-03-2011 at 07:43 PM.
no sleevies for me now pure powa only 
02-04-2011, 05:08 AM
#35
Uggh... I really agree with some of the statements here... sleeve problems (as well as many other premature failures) seem like assembly issues, not inherent problems with sleeves. Hell even non-sleeved blocks have issues (cass, anyone?)
which really freaks me out given that a lot of 'big name' companies can't seem to get it right... who the hell to trust?? Makes me want to get another stock engine if it ever blows...
which really freaks me out given that a lot of 'big name' companies can't seem to get it right... who the hell to trust?? Makes me want to get another stock engine if it ever blows...
02-04-2011, 05:16 AM
#36
I straight up dont trust anybody on a VQ to sleeve properly. My second motor seemed fine, then suddenly even with the Evans + pressureless system it started overflowing coolant to the top of the overflor just on turning on the car!
For a drag car, or shop car whatever, for a customer's STREET car no sleeves would hold up to my driving.
My evidence
For a drag car, or shop car whatever, for a customer's STREET car no sleeves would hold up to my driving.
My evidence
02-04-2011, 05:20 AM
#37
I straight up dont trust anybody on a VQ to sleeve properly. My second motor seemed fine, then suddenly even with the Evans + pressureless system it started overflowing coolant to the top of the overflor just on turning on the car!
For a drag car, or shop car whatever, for a customer's STREET car no sleeves would hold up to my driving.
My evidence
For a drag car, or shop car whatever, for a customer's STREET car no sleeves would hold up to my driving.
My evidence
02-04-2011, 05:46 AM
#39
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 497
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I straight up dont trust anybody on a VQ to sleeve properly. My second motor seemed fine, then suddenly even with the Evans + pressureless system it started overflowing coolant to the top of the overflor just on turning on the car!
For a drag car, or shop car whatever, for a customer's STREET car no sleeves would hold up to my driving.
My evidence
For a drag car, or shop car whatever, for a customer's STREET car no sleeves would hold up to my driving.
My evidence
02-04-2011, 09:09 AM
#40
Sponsor
Injected Performance
Injected Performance
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 636
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Darton East is now Justice Racing, was a ERL a year or so ago. I would not recommend Justice Racing or ERL. We have seen issues with both companies and found flaws in both of their work.