An appointment to get boost, what should I ask ?
10-08-2003, 02:03 AM
#21
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Japan
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK just got back, no time to upload photos yet.
But here goes on the info.
For starters this kit will not be available in the USA due to the greater variance in your fuel octane levels, they can only do this setup due to the strict regulation in Japan on what octane levels are for normal gasoline and the high octane gasoline. The guy did say that the UK follows similar standards though and when I leave Japan with my car they have an affiliate company in the UK to retune the car.
Now the crunch, $7,500 is just for the physical parts and does not include installation and setup. That pushes the cost up to about $12,000 to $16,000 depending on if you have the oversize radiator, oil cooler and intercooler. More details later as my Dr is here now.
But here goes on the info.
For starters this kit will not be available in the USA due to the greater variance in your fuel octane levels, they can only do this setup due to the strict regulation in Japan on what octane levels are for normal gasoline and the high octane gasoline. The guy did say that the UK follows similar standards though and when I leave Japan with my car they have an affiliate company in the UK to retune the car.
Now the crunch, $7,500 is just for the physical parts and does not include installation and setup. That pushes the cost up to about $12,000 to $16,000 depending on if you have the oversize radiator, oil cooler and intercooler. More details later as my Dr is here now.
10-08-2003, 03:20 AM
#22
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Japan
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK quickly a few more details (I'm a little dizzy at the mo from the drugs).
The power for this setup is 430hp at the engine, not rwhp. Their system utilizes a HKS GT30 single turbo, it is small and spools up fast so they claim no turbo lag.
430hp setup is with 0.6bar of boost
400hp is 0.4bar of boost
370hp is 0.2bar of boost
You can have a boost controller installed or just have it setup by them to just hit a maximum of level of boost then cut off.
Since developing this system for the car they have done 6 Z's in Japan, all at 0.6bar of boost and with no problems reported yet.
What else ? They replace the injectors of course, they have also custom made down pipes etc, install includes an upgraded starter motor, standard engine cpu is replaced with their own cpu.
They warranty the turbo setup for 12 months, but that is just all the turbo parts. They do not warranty your engine at all.
Impressions of the company, they are very professional and do top grade stuff with lots of R&D behind their systems. The shop I was at was also the work shop and I got to see alot of the work going on in there. If money was no object, my car would be with them now. But I gotta think about this a bit more first and check out the rival companys products - including Veilside.
Lots of GTRs there, nice golden Skylines putting out about 800rwhp, track race cars. Will post some photos tomorrow.
The power for this setup is 430hp at the engine, not rwhp. Their system utilizes a HKS GT30 single turbo, it is small and spools up fast so they claim no turbo lag.
430hp setup is with 0.6bar of boost
400hp is 0.4bar of boost
370hp is 0.2bar of boost
You can have a boost controller installed or just have it setup by them to just hit a maximum of level of boost then cut off.
Since developing this system for the car they have done 6 Z's in Japan, all at 0.6bar of boost and with no problems reported yet.
What else ? They replace the injectors of course, they have also custom made down pipes etc, install includes an upgraded starter motor, standard engine cpu is replaced with their own cpu.
They warranty the turbo setup for 12 months, but that is just all the turbo parts. They do not warranty your engine at all.
Impressions of the company, they are very professional and do top grade stuff with lots of R&D behind their systems. The shop I was at was also the work shop and I got to see alot of the work going on in there. If money was no object, my car would be with them now. But I gotta think about this a bit more first and check out the rival companys products - including Veilside.
Lots of GTRs there, nice golden Skylines putting out about 800rwhp, track race cars. Will post some photos tomorrow.
10-08-2003, 04:49 AM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
dazee,
since its a single turbo, how is the exhaust system set up after the turbo? is it a single pipe leading to cats and muffler?
did you get to see a dyno chart, wondering how low end is affected.
last one, did they mention if this would pass the inspection process here or is it just for "track use"?
thanks
since its a single turbo, how is the exhaust system set up after the turbo? is it a single pipe leading to cats and muffler?
did you get to see a dyno chart, wondering how low end is affected.
last one, did they mention if this would pass the inspection process here or is it just for "track use"?
thanks
10-08-2003, 12:35 PM
#24
New Member
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: san luis obispo, ca
Posts: 1,580
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow, a single turbo on a V engine? What a pain in the rear as far as plumbing. 
I'd be very interested in seeing how they routed the pipes and such. Did you get to see the setup? Was the turbo off to one side of the engine, thus necessitating longer exhaust pipes coming off of one side of the engine than the other? I'm guessing that's the case.
I'd be very interested in seeing how they routed the pipes and such. Did you get to see the setup? Was the turbo off to one side of the engine, thus necessitating longer exhaust pipes coming off of one side of the engine than the other? I'm guessing that's the case.
10-08-2003, 02:23 PM
#25
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Japan
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alot of the turbo setups I have seen advertised here do use a single turbo, some mounted at the rear top side of the engine, some mounted on the underside of the engine. Top Secret mounts it on the underside of the engine, which is why I did not see the turbo unit itself. I'll upload photos soon of their boosted Z, it is slightly different from the setup you would pay for as they have a polished intake manifold on theirs. That would cost extra if you wanted it.
I asked to see a dyno chart, but they didn't have one at the time. I'll Email the guy and ask if he can do a dyno run with their car and Email me the chart for posting. I got the impression that this was for road usage, hence the maximum boost being 0.6bar.
I asked to see a dyno chart, but they didn't have one at the time. I'll Email the guy and ask if he can do a dyno run with their car and Email me the chart for posting. I got the impression that this was for road usage, hence the maximum boost being 0.6bar.
10-08-2003, 02:59 PM
#26
Registered User
If you use a single turbo on a V engine can you just use one cylinder bank to power the turbo? You don't necessarily need to pipe all the way across to the other bank do you? Or will that create too much lag since you are only getting 1/2 the exhuast gasses? It seems like you could do something simple this way, but maybe it doesn't work out in real life.
-D'oh!
-D'oh!
10-08-2003, 03:30 PM
#28
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Japan
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jesus ! Just added it up and the installation charges and tuning for everything comes to about $5,000 ! That's alot of money to be saved if you have a nice garage and are into DIY.
I'll scan the parts list this weekend or just see if I got some time to translate the list and make a table of the prices etc.
BTW Also sent a reply to Power Enterprises with a bunch of your questions for their kit, will post the response here when I get it.
I'll scan the parts list this weekend or just see if I got some time to translate the list and make a table of the prices etc.
BTW Also sent a reply to Power Enterprises with a bunch of your questions for their kit, will post the response here when I get it.
10-08-2003, 04:14 PM
#29
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Japan
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK photos !
Here is their own turbo Z.
Now a look at the engine.
A closer look at that plumbing.
A sneak look at the workshop. Here you can see a Skyline GTR32, GTR34, Nissan Micra and a Toyota MRS. All getting the turbo treatment.
Then finally the racing GTRs for the shop that put out 800rwhp+
Here is their own turbo Z.
Now a look at the engine.
A closer look at that plumbing.
A sneak look at the workshop. Here you can see a Skyline GTR32, GTR34, Nissan Micra and a Toyota MRS. All getting the turbo treatment.
Then finally the racing GTRs for the shop that put out 800rwhp+
10-08-2003, 04:24 PM
#30
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Japan
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ether, just got a reply from them. They say no problem with the Japanese emission control tests, so you will be able to get a new shaken on it when the time comes.
10-08-2003, 06:51 PM
#32
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
dazee
so sweet, can't wait till spring time, by then my engine will have some mileage and be ready for boost.
at the low end of the range that was quoted, does that include an intercooler and boost controller?
also since the turbo is at the bottom, did you get a sense of whether a vented hood adds a lot of value? The option stream z type of setup seems like it would benefit more from it, but maybe this one does not.
did they fire up their Z, wondering how it sounded, have to keep mine as stock sounding as possible given some of my neighbors
so sweet, can't wait till spring time, by then my engine will have some mileage and be ready for boost.
at the low end of the range that was quoted, does that include an intercooler and boost controller?
also since the turbo is at the bottom, did you get a sense of whether a vented hood adds a lot of value? The option stream z type of setup seems like it would benefit more from it, but maybe this one does not.
did they fire up their Z, wondering how it sounded, have to keep mine as stock sounding as possible given some of my neighbors
10-08-2003, 07:46 PM
#33
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Japan
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The turbo Z was the only one there - besides mine
To be honest, when it was fired up it didn't sound that different from mine, but then mine is a little loud anyway due to the Fujitsubo pipe I have on it. Nice little whine from the turbo when given some juice, but not over powering. I'd say that at idle you wouldn't tell it from a NA car.
They like cooling, and any venting to help cooling is good from their standpoint. The low end price does not include boost controller or intercooler. Boost controller is 49,800yen plus another 16,000yen for install and tuning. The intercooler they use is 98,000 yen plus 60,000 for the fitting etc.
As a comparison for the intercoolers the cheapest I have seen from other companys is the GReddy kit at 108,000 yen, same for boost controoler, again Reddy at 67,000 yen.
They said that at the moment the additional cooling should not be a problem being left out on my car because of the hood venting and larger air inlet on the front bumper, and also it is getting cooler now. But they recommend installing anyway due to our famous Japanese hot humid summers and huge traffic jams on any national holiday.
To be honest, when it was fired up it didn't sound that different from mine, but then mine is a little loud anyway due to the Fujitsubo pipe I have on it. Nice little whine from the turbo when given some juice, but not over powering. I'd say that at idle you wouldn't tell it from a NA car.
They like cooling, and any venting to help cooling is good from their standpoint. The low end price does not include boost controller or intercooler. Boost controller is 49,800yen plus another 16,000yen for install and tuning. The intercooler they use is 98,000 yen plus 60,000 for the fitting etc.
As a comparison for the intercoolers the cheapest I have seen from other companys is the GReddy kit at 108,000 yen, same for boost controoler, again Reddy at 67,000 yen.
They said that at the moment the additional cooling should not be a problem being left out on my car because of the hood venting and larger air inlet on the front bumper, and also it is getting cooler now. But they recommend installing anyway due to our famous Japanese hot humid summers and huge traffic jams on any national holiday.
10-08-2003, 08:54 PM
#34
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks for the info.. I'll definitely go for the boost controller and intercooler, got to think more about a vented hood, the only one that's caught my eye is this one http://www.firstmolding.com/firstmol...onnet-z33.html
bye the way, the power-enterprise turbo kit is now listed on the website as coming out in November at 898,000 yen http://www.power-enterprise.co.jp/new/newstop.htm i'll be interesting to see how that setup compares to top secret's
bye the way, the power-enterprise turbo kit is now listed on the website as coming out in November at 898,000 yen http://www.power-enterprise.co.jp/new/newstop.htm i'll be interesting to see how that setup compares to top secret's
10-08-2003, 11:50 PM
#35
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Japan
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm interested to see that too. They have not responded yet to my Email. I'm in touch with a guy called Mochizuki-san there. I want to get the power, but also ensure reliability. Was humiliated by a Z32 twin turbo not so long ago 
If there's no Email response today I'll give him a call tomorrow.
If there's no Email response today I'll give him a call tomorrow.
10-09-2003, 07:19 AM
#37
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Japan
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey you're speaking to a mechanical dunce here Didn't even think to ask that question. Will Email the man again tomorrow. We've also got the Tokyo Motor Show starting here on the 25th, so as I have plenty of time I will be sure to go and check around to see the aftermarket parts. Also looking for a new bike and to practice my race queen photography
Didn't even think to ask that question. Will Email the man again tomorrow. We've also got the Tokyo Motor Show starting here on the 25th, so as I have plenty of time I will be sure to go and check around to see the aftermarket parts. Also looking for a new bike and to practice my race queen photography
10-09-2003, 04:30 PM
#38
dang. u got way too much money! ^_^
basically asking, if they vented the blow off valve back into the air filter.. from the picts i didnt see a safety release valve, although not really necessary for the amounts of boost the kit is producing, its just a nice audiable modification to have
basically asking, if they vented the blow off valve back into the air filter.. from the picts i didnt see a safety release valve, although not really necessary for the amounts of boost the kit is producing, its just a nice audiable modification to have
10-09-2003, 05:24 PM
#39
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Japan
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LOL ! My guess is that they would do that. The number of cars I hear in my little town that have that noise is incredible. They also like to go for what we used to call a crash gear box, but I guess it is a sequential gear box now. Very audible for every gear shift they make !
From the PE page their turbo setup looks much nicer. I'll get some answers from them this morning. Just Dr is on his way now to put a couple of stitches inside my hip. I have to wait until that is over before making the call.
From the PE page their turbo setup looks much nicer. I'll get some answers from them this morning. Just Dr is on his way now to put a couple of stitches inside my hip. I have to wait until that is over before making the call.
10-09-2003, 05:34 PM
#40
New Member
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: May 2002
Location: san luis obispo, ca
Posts: 1,580
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've been wondering about blow-off valves on MAF equipped cars. I keep reading that, in general, a recirculated system is better than a blow-off (to atmosphere) system. What is the reasoning behind this? Or does it basically depend on where in the intake tract you install the MAF?
I'm assuming this is because, on most cars I'm familiar with, the MAF is located immediately after the air filter, right at the beginning of the intake system. Further down you have the turbo's compressor, then after that you have your dump valve of some sort, then your intercooler, then the throttle body. (I guess some cars often swap the IC and dump valve, putting the dump valve after the IC.) When you are not under boost (such as when you are simply cruising down the highway, idling, or generally taking it easy) and your intake manifold is in a vacuum state, the dump valve is open (depending on how stiffly sprung the dump valve is configured). This means you would actually be sucking some air *in* through the dump valve, which is of course *after* the MAF. So the airflow being reported to the ECU by the MAF would *not* be what's actually going to the engine... thus the problem. It'd be like having a big hole in your intake hose somewhere. With a recirculated system, this isn't a problem since the dump side of the dump valve is just plumbed right back into the intake tract.
Does this sound about right? If you were to install the MAF *after* the dump valve, it would seem that blowing-off to atmosphere would be okay and cause no problems, as all airflow (in through any orifice) would be accounted for. Why not just install the MAF immediately before the throttle body?
I guess another option is to put a stiff enough spring in the dump valve so that it actually stays closed most of the time, even at idle, and only pops open during extreme vacuum. (But there are other problems with that.)
Any ideas on this? With most MAF-equipped cars that have blow-off valves, how are they configured so they idle okay and run good off of boost? Where are the MAFs located?
I'm assuming this is because, on most cars I'm familiar with, the MAF is located immediately after the air filter, right at the beginning of the intake system. Further down you have the turbo's compressor, then after that you have your dump valve of some sort, then your intercooler, then the throttle body. (I guess some cars often swap the IC and dump valve, putting the dump valve after the IC.) When you are not under boost (such as when you are simply cruising down the highway, idling, or generally taking it easy) and your intake manifold is in a vacuum state, the dump valve is open (depending on how stiffly sprung the dump valve is configured). This means you would actually be sucking some air *in* through the dump valve, which is of course *after* the MAF. So the airflow being reported to the ECU by the MAF would *not* be what's actually going to the engine... thus the problem. It'd be like having a big hole in your intake hose somewhere. With a recirculated system, this isn't a problem since the dump side of the dump valve is just plumbed right back into the intake tract.
Does this sound about right? If you were to install the MAF *after* the dump valve, it would seem that blowing-off to atmosphere would be okay and cause no problems, as all airflow (in through any orifice) would be accounted for. Why not just install the MAF immediately before the throttle body?
I guess another option is to put a stiff enough spring in the dump valve so that it actually stays closed most of the time, even at idle, and only pops open during extreme vacuum. (But there are other problems with that.)
Any ideas on this? With most MAF-equipped cars that have blow-off valves, how are they configured so they idle okay and run good off of boost? Where are the MAFs located?