thom000001

Terry,
Why not just do a twin sequential like the supra or porsche 959? Would just need a "balance tube" to connect the exhaust manifolds to control things better, and you would need the wastegates to control it all of course........small turbo spool, with large turbo power....

I know a twin sequential supra just did like 1016rwhp.....lemme find the sheet on it


Tom

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

The twin sequential setups I am familiar need control valves. Do you have a link to the setup you are reffering to. I'd like to check it out.

thom000001

Yea they all need control valves. SP uses extra Wastegate actuators to do that. Then they can also easily control when the 2nd turbo comes online.

I believe the last twin sequential Supra they did also had the quick spool valves.

I'll find info though. Its the same idea, just working from 2 sides of the engine of course.

I do remember reading that with the Porsche 959, that the power jump was so violent when turbo 2 came online, that it always had traction issue in the middle of 2nd and 3rd gears lol.....they just didn't have good control over the power delivery at the time.

tom

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

^^^^

Hi Tom,

I'd like to see SP's setup.

The nice thing about the sequential setup is that you don't have to be so darn picky about matching the turbos.

I have GT3071R turbos. It would be really cool to add GT2554R turbos to each side in a sequential setup to get insta-spool on the 4.0L motor. Before they start fading, the GT3071's will be spooled up and take over.

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rd4XA8czlks
I'm assuming you have seen this video, no?
Look at the twin charged gtr....... that has twin centrifugal superchargers, with an engine layout similar to ours...
I don't see why a big vortech s/c combo'd up with a greddy tt or jwt 530 and some trick fmic piping wouldn't be a good starting point...
Maybe later today I will explain more in depth... :0

binder

iTrader: (8)

That isn't a twin centrifugal supercharger setup. That huge thing on top is a roots screw type supercharger. I can't even see a second one. Maybe you know of this car so you know there is a second supercharger on the car, but in this video you can't see it.

on a side note: why does he have a huge open ram air hood scoop when the air intake isn't on top of the engine??? lol

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

I had not seen that video. It looks like a roots style SC sitting on the motor.

The reason I started looking into this is to find a way to eliminate, or at least significantly reduce, turbo lag. The problem with the standard centrifugal superchargers for our car, which binder pointed out to me, is that they make very little boost below 3k rpm, and thus will not contribute significantly towards reducing turbo lag. As I noted, I found some roots style SC's that will produce significant boost in the low rpms, but they were huge.

The one shown in the video is large, but at least it looks to be designed to fit our motors. How much boost is it producing in the 2k - 3k rpm range? If it is producing decent amount of boost down there, it may be a viable option for someone who doesn't mind a big bulge in the hood. I was actually hoping to find something that will fit under the stock or Seibon hood. Optimally, there would be a roots style SC that doesn't need to sit right over the motor. I'm not sure if such a beast exists, though.

BoostedProbe

iTrader: (9)

That setup uses a clutch on the supercharger drive side. The clutch is taken off of a Mercedes C230 M62 supercharger. I have one in my garage right now: http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-1963067..._2073_18065986

I would suspect that they turn that supercharger off via clutch, through some sort of a pressure switch once the turbo spools up.

All this twin charging talk and 8 months of winter is messing with me now. I have been thinking about it. I am sure I could do it.

Those blowers can get to 200deg F very quickly, so it helps with cooling.

binder

iTrader: (8)

ah, that makes sense. I guess since all our kits don't have huge scoops i figured the heat would be ok with all that air moving through it.

i was just thinking about a clutch style on a supercharger last night. My thought is slightly different though. I wasthinking about a setup like a mechanical fan on a vehicle. At low speeds it's fully engaged and at higher speeds it slows down (since the airflow of the vehicle doesn't need a fan spinning so fast). With a setup like that couldn't we run huge gearing on our superchargers so they are spinning reallyl fast with low engine rpm then as the rpm gets higher the viscious clutch slips allowing the supercharger to spin slower (or at a speed slower to produce the same psi)

that way we can get 10psi around 1500 rpms and as the rpms increase the clutch assembly slows supercharger rotation therefore keeping it 10psi all the way to redline. that would be a sweet setup!

TRYNALIVEPRO

iTrader: (12)

That car was featured in TURBO magazine ISSUE 192, pages 32-38 display until 12/05/2006.
"First off, the bonnet had to be addressed. ORC wanted something special, not only for looks but to clear the monster ORC supercharger that would be sitting right on top of the vq35 motor. So a rather big scoop was molded right in the center, while on each side a small air outlet would aid in engine-room cooling".

Vas@Extended

iTrader: (17)

Do it!! that would be insanely sick an definitely one of a kind!

BoostedProbe

iTrader: (9)

Yeah, it is very tempting and I will probably do it one day. I have to make/sell a few turbo kits first though to fund a project like this. The car is up on stands already, and I have started working on it. It's my winter getaway.

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

I don't see turbo lag as a problem with our cars? Look at alberto, 600+whp on pump-gas with the greddy twin td05....
But yes I am aware that the ORC Z has a Roots style charger on it lol.
The gtr i am referring too (i saw in dsport dvd-no i didn't pay for the subscription, it was a gift) is the Power Enterprise Twin Charged GTR (r35) (http://www.gtrcenter.net/?p=1209)
I think it won some stuff at tokyo auto salon?
Any who, I believe the better approach is twin turbos that spool quickly (IE JWT 530) and give good midrange etc and then use a BIG supercharger (that usually takes a while to spool up on the Z). This is simply because you can get 450ish hp out of a turbo set up to make power in half the time it takes a supercharger to, guaranteed (excluding nitrous).
Here's a likely candidate for a powerful supercharger:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/view.php?pcat=20
Yes 1450cfm is a bit high, but you get the point im trying to make, no?
And for the intercooler, you would just get a big one and make a custom 3-1 intake merge pipe (2 pipes coming from the turbo, one from s/c into a single entrance intercooler good for Xhp).

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

And you would have good clearance, for the most part, the turbo lines and piping wont get in the way of a supercharger mounted where the vortech is. The worst case scenario: you need all custom intake lines, which really isn't a big deal, something you could get a muffler shop to help you with.
EDIT:
For future reference, I have been thinking about this for a while now.
If I can get a good deal on a vortech kit (maybe one with a bad s/c) and a good deal on a tt kit (cheap cheap, perhaps just turbo and exhaust manifold) I will take a crack at it. I was hoping to keep it on the DL and not be another pre-ejaculation "i want 1000hp" noobs but there goes that plan (that way when I fail, no one would know).
Or if a shop would be willing to do tuning and or send me some parts

ttg35fort

iTrader: (2)

Well, I had the same Greddy kit, and it does not spool up until around 3800 rpm. That still is more lag than I prefer. I would love to be at 10 psi of boost at 2500 - 3000 rpm, while still pushing enough air to get me to 750 whp at 7500 rpm.


It looks to be like a sequential turbo setup, but using a SC in lieu of big turbos. It could work, the SC certainly is large enough to get to well over 750 whp, but you still need valving on the pipes to keep the compressed air from back feeding into the SC at low boost, and back feeding into the TC's at high boost.

I don't see any advantages of this setup over a sequential turbo setup, but there me be some. What do you see as the benefits over a sequential turbo setup?

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

so really what you are wanting to do deep down, is drop in a big V8 and go from there.

that will solve all of your problems Or better yet, just use nitrous.

Resmarted

iTrader: (2)

Yeah that is by far the most practical way to go about it. If turbo lag is a problem, get cams, cam gears, and a better tune. If you still have "lag" get a stroker kit. 4+ liters still not enough? buy a Z06, and turbo that.
The SC + TT would be a very midrange beast. A good way to roughly map what would happen would be:
Take a tt vq35 graph (for whatever base turbo kit you would use)
Take a stock (likely V-8) graph (use the same type of dyno if possible)
Take a graph of the specific S/C you want to combo up on that same V-8 engine.
Compare the torque curves and you will have a very coarse estimate of the engine's characteristics.
But after lurking around the RB20 forums (It's good to look at the low displacement turbo engine sites, as they are often the most creative/budget friendly aftermarket groups, not to mention they sometimes come up with crazy ways to get a huge turbo to spool), I found that what determines how fast you spool has a lot more to do with your tune than I had previously thought.
I don't know where you got your car tuned, or why you feel the car is laggy. A quick search for a dyno for greddy tt kit yeilded 300+ft lb's torque by around 3,250rpm. I'd call this pretty good....
You would probably be better off doing some head massaging and maybe displacement increase than doing a sequential or a twin charge setup. If you are really broke, like st8drum said, nitrous.

Sequential kits are fine, but with a V-6 (especially in our cars), it just doesn't seem too practical.

Yes you would need a valve in the intake for the twin kit, but that is a "simple" one way valve.
IMO, I wouldn't consider doing a twin charge setup on the Z for response (although the ORC Z looked really responsive), but I would for a car that had massive mid-range torque... maybe an excellent drift car?

The Sound Performance quick spool thing looks promising, but

Quamen

iTrader: (14)

There is someone on G35Driver that is working on a Vortech blowing into a Stillen. The only big problem with using the Stillen is that it is not robust enough to handle the extra pressure according to the research provided in the thread. Something about the seals on the Stillen going bad.

I would do a twin turbo blowing into two twin centrifugals if you could. The piping would be feasible and it would make mad power.

str8dum1

iTrader: (11)

hmm, the deal would be get a used powerlab single and run that down pipe into a rear mounted 100mm turbo.

The gt35 makes full boost by like 3200 rpms. Have the wastegate bypass the gt35 at like 18psi.

Fitting a 5" downpipe off the 100mm turbo would be cake and the gt35 would send wnough exhaust gasses back to spin that baby up.

Prolly do that setup for same price as a dual gt35 kit and make a LOT more hp (has anyone broke an eagle rode yet?)

Fitting a 'super thumper' on our cars could actually be plausible

Cass007

iTrader: (34)

Got a link to that thread?

I think of it this way, since this is a difficult problem to solve, the best two solutions IMO are:

1. Wait for SP to apply their Supra magic to a sequential turbo setup for a VQ

2. Build VQ's made to rev to 9K, that way you can match turbo and still have a wide powerband, just higher up in the rev range