does your ATI blower vibrate?
10-15-2003, 08:01 PM
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does your ATI blower vibrate?
I noticed more vibration at idle (~650rpm).
Turns out the blower is vibrating but
the main bracket is not (the blower
hangs off the end of the main bracket
connected with another smaller bracket).
All bolts are tight. Does yours do this?
Maybe my cog belt is not aligned right?
I watched it idle and the belts rotate
straight and true (no wobble).
thanks,
rob
Turns out the blower is vibrating but
the main bracket is not (the blower
hangs off the end of the main bracket
connected with another smaller bracket).
All bolts are tight. Does yours do this?
Maybe my cog belt is not aligned right?
I watched it idle and the belts rotate
straight and true (no wobble).
thanks,
rob
10-18-2003, 09:29 AM
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thanks! fixed
Thanks guys for responding.
Since you guys didn't have a vibration problem,
I took a closer look. Turns out the main cog belt (front)
and cog belt (back) were too loose causing a slight
vibration at idle. Because the G35C kit's blower is
right up against the radiator, it sent the vibration
into the cabin through the metal body (I could feel
it through my shoes)...
thanks,
rob
ps. for you DIY owners, when you tighten the smaller
cog belt (back), it actually loosens the main cog belt (front)
so you need to check both belts after they are both installed...
Since you guys didn't have a vibration problem,
I took a closer look. Turns out the main cog belt (front)
and cog belt (back) were too loose causing a slight
vibration at idle. Because the G35C kit's blower is
right up against the radiator, it sent the vibration
into the cabin through the metal body (I could feel
it through my shoes)...
thanks,
rob
ps. for you DIY owners, when you tighten the smaller
cog belt (back), it actually loosens the main cog belt (front)
so you need to check both belts after they are both installed...
10-18-2003, 04:24 PM
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hmm, the real cause!
Being of the curious type, I think I found the root cause.
Here's what I wrote to ATI:
---
hi ATI,
My blower vibrates at idle (~650rpm standard).
It turns out the main pulley's washer
was installed backwards (it came like
this but I didn't notice til now).
See the "A" arrow in the following
picture.
Well, I was going to remove the main
bracket to fix this when I noticed
that the "key" is sticking out, that's
probably why the original assembler put
the washer backwards (because the
indented part was blocked by the key).
See the "B" arrow in the above picture.
The bolt won't come off so there's
nothing I can do to fix this problem.
The crooked key/washer is causing the
vibration which gets amplified at the
end of the blower bracket.
Please advise on what to do. Can you
send another main bracket?
thanks,
rob
Here's what I wrote to ATI:
---
hi ATI,
My blower vibrates at idle (~650rpm standard).
It turns out the main pulley's washer
was installed backwards (it came like
this but I didn't notice til now).
See the "A" arrow in the following
picture.
Well, I was going to remove the main
bracket to fix this when I noticed
that the "key" is sticking out, that's
probably why the original assembler put
the washer backwards (because the
indented part was blocked by the key).
See the "B" arrow in the above picture.
The bolt won't come off so there's
nothing I can do to fix this problem.
The crooked key/washer is causing the
vibration which gets amplified at the
end of the blower bracket.
Please advise on what to do. Can you
send another main bracket?
thanks,
rob
10-18-2003, 04:38 PM
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Holy crap, mine was installed backwards too. I figured it was something that I did because once I realized it was backward it was a couple weeks after the install and I couldn't remember if it came like that or it was my screwup.
Anyways, I took the bracket off last weekend because I screwed up a different pulley. I took that opportunity to fix the problem. I removed the bolt and put the washer on the right way. It will go on the correct way, you just REALLY gotta torque on that bolt to get the square key to go down in there.
BTW, to get the bolt off I did this.
On the cog pulley side there are 3 holes in the bracket. I put a metal dowel in one of those holes which held the cog pulley in place. The metal dowel I used was just one of those metal pins you get when you buy prefabricated furniture that you have to assemble. You know, one of those metal dowels that the adjustable shelves in place. Anyways once that cog pulley was locked in place I just removed the bolt from the other side, flipped the washer around.
Then I removed the dowell and used the bolt on the other side as leverage to torque that bolt down.
Anyways, I took the bracket off last weekend because I screwed up a different pulley. I took that opportunity to fix the problem. I removed the bolt and put the washer on the right way. It will go on the correct way, you just REALLY gotta torque on that bolt to get the square key to go down in there.
BTW, to get the bolt off I did this.
On the cog pulley side there are 3 holes in the bracket. I put a metal dowel in one of those holes which held the cog pulley in place. The metal dowel I used was just one of those metal pins you get when you buy prefabricated furniture that you have to assemble. You know, one of those metal dowels that the adjustable shelves in place. Anyways once that cog pulley was locked in place I just removed the bolt from the other side, flipped the washer around.
Then I removed the dowell and used the bolt on the other side as leverage to torque that bolt down.
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11-13-2003, 12:56 PM
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is this the real cause of vibration?Mine is on the same way!!!but Mine sounds like the intercooler piping vibrating off the frame of the car..Kind of like when an exhaust hangs too low and vibrates off something..ND4SPD, did this stop the vibration???
11-13-2003, 05:33 PM
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I think it's probably your intercooler pipe rubbing on the frame. I had that problem. I swapped the washer around the correct way and didn't notice any changes. Mine rattle/vibration ended up being the intercooler pipe that leads to the intake manifold was rubbing on the frame.
11-13-2003, 06:15 PM
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It could be. I just notice with the colder weather the sound is getting worse. I know things change sizes slightly with a change in temperature. In the pic shown above it looks like there is a small gap where B is. Maybe the gap on mine has gotten bigger with the temp change? Regardless, I will check the piping. Thanks for the advice Jesse.
11-19-2003, 07:54 AM
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How do you know the washers are installed incorrectly? I noticed last night both (on the cog pulley and the one in back) of mine are the same way as the picture. They also wobble a lot, should they both be flipped? Is this something in the manual? I'm suprised that so many are installed backwards if that's the case. If so could you post a scan of the page? I don't have a manual because I bought the car with the kit installed. I have all sorts of rattles and vibrations at idle too and it's really annoying. I love the sound but a friend of mine is putting out over 550hp to the rear wheels in his Camero and his runs very smooth at idle.
Also between 2000 and 2300 RMP there is a high pitched rattle. Almost sounds like pinging (it's not) but it's coming from the supercharger or its pulleys. It doesn't matter if it's under load or parked it's the RMP range. Does anyone else here this sound too?
Thanks,
BlownG
Also between 2000 and 2300 RMP there is a high pitched rattle. Almost sounds like pinging (it's not) but it's coming from the supercharger or its pulleys. It doesn't matter if it's under load or parked it's the RMP range. Does anyone else here this sound too?
Thanks,
BlownG
Last edited by BlownG; 11-19-2003 at 07:58 AM.
11-19-2003, 08:42 AM
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I fixed it, but had to pulley the main bracket off the engine. If your kit is already installed, you're not going to be able to flip that washer between the main bracket and the engine around. There's just not enough room to pull the bolt out.
Yes, I have a high pitched ringing between 1600-1700 RPM and it sounds like it's coming from the SC or the pulley directly behind the SC. I called ATI about this and they said to check to ensure the compressor blades aren't rubbing on the housing and they weren't so I've just been living with it.
The most annoying thing though is at idle, the car sounds like a pulley is about to fall off. I've checked all the pulleys, and they're all tight, it's just all kinds of rattling and squeaking sounds.
Yes, I have a high pitched ringing between 1600-1700 RPM and it sounds like it's coming from the SC or the pulley directly behind the SC. I called ATI about this and they said to check to ensure the compressor blades aren't rubbing on the housing and they weren't so I've just been living with it.
The most annoying thing though is at idle, the car sounds like a pulley is about to fall off. I've checked all the pulleys, and they're all tight, it's just all kinds of rattling and squeaking sounds.
11-19-2003, 10:11 AM
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Dear kit owners,
In regards to the installation of the washers for the pulleys:
To make a long story short is that it doesn't matter what way the washer is, as long as it's not over tightened. The only reason would be to center it for looks. I will now go into a further bit of detail on this matter.
The washers "step" is for aesthetic reasons only. The washer can be in either direction when installed. The reason for the "step" if the shaft allows is to center the washer (for looks only). We just wanted a way for the customer to center the washer if possible, so that from the front of the motor, while running it looked good to the eye.
If the washer is installed with the step out, and appears off center the bolt is still in the center of the shaft, and should then be tightened to spec. For this is what truly matters about the installation. As long as the bolt is TQ'ed to spec in the shaft, the install is up to standard.
The only factor that could be harmful would be the following. If the washer has been installed with the "step" portion inside the pulley surface, and compressed with to much TQ (over tightening) the washer could become bent in. This bend could cause the washer to come in full contact with the inner shaft, thus less pressure would be applied to the pulley surface. This could cause the pulley to be loose, and chatter on the key in the shaft. The pressure should be on the pulley surface, and not the inner shaft. A slight bend to the washer is fully acceptable, but digging the bolt into the washer and bending it in is not.
If the washer is installed with the "step" facing out this is NEVER an issue. Though the washer could be off center. No vibrations are caused by this, or other factors other then the "look"
If the washer is installed with the "step" in and TQ'ed but not over tightened, this is ALSO NOT an issue.
We have had customers E-mail us on this matter, and we have advised them to NOT keep swapping from side to side. For as the washer could become fatigued from the bending in opposite directions multiple times.
NOW AS FOR THE SOUND:
Depending on the cars idle the blowers tone will change. Reason why, is because the C2 blower features very durable hardened gear sets. When the C2 was first created, we wanted to push the envelope of shaft speed, and needed the most durable gear set that could be engineered to keep up with that goal. The trade off for durability is the sound. We wanted to make sure this blower, would be capable of the boost levels, and Rpm's levels that hopefully the 350Z will be capable in the near future.
When a car is at idle there is a rapid change in the RPM, it is a small change but a change none the less. (every time a piston fires on the compression stroke there is a slight change in load) This rapid RPM change and load change gets translated to the blowers gears. As the gears load and unload countless times a second, a chatter, or sing can be produced. Once the blower is under load or the rpm's are continuous this condition does not exists, and the typical sound of a blower "hum or sing" will be produced. Anything that helps the 350Z's idle to be sooth with also help the blower sound to be smooth. IE Grounding kits, good plugs, etc.
If you have any further questions please contact us via phone 913-338-2886 or by E-mail or your dealer.
Thanks,
ATI
In regards to the installation of the washers for the pulleys:
To make a long story short is that it doesn't matter what way the washer is, as long as it's not over tightened. The only reason would be to center it for looks. I will now go into a further bit of detail on this matter.
The washers "step" is for aesthetic reasons only. The washer can be in either direction when installed. The reason for the "step" if the shaft allows is to center the washer (for looks only). We just wanted a way for the customer to center the washer if possible, so that from the front of the motor, while running it looked good to the eye.
If the washer is installed with the step out, and appears off center the bolt is still in the center of the shaft, and should then be tightened to spec. For this is what truly matters about the installation. As long as the bolt is TQ'ed to spec in the shaft, the install is up to standard.
The only factor that could be harmful would be the following. If the washer has been installed with the "step" portion inside the pulley surface, and compressed with to much TQ (over tightening) the washer could become bent in. This bend could cause the washer to come in full contact with the inner shaft, thus less pressure would be applied to the pulley surface. This could cause the pulley to be loose, and chatter on the key in the shaft. The pressure should be on the pulley surface, and not the inner shaft. A slight bend to the washer is fully acceptable, but digging the bolt into the washer and bending it in is not.
If the washer is installed with the "step" facing out this is NEVER an issue. Though the washer could be off center. No vibrations are caused by this, or other factors other then the "look"
If the washer is installed with the "step" in and TQ'ed but not over tightened, this is ALSO NOT an issue.
We have had customers E-mail us on this matter, and we have advised them to NOT keep swapping from side to side. For as the washer could become fatigued from the bending in opposite directions multiple times.
NOW AS FOR THE SOUND:
Depending on the cars idle the blowers tone will change. Reason why, is because the C2 blower features very durable hardened gear sets. When the C2 was first created, we wanted to push the envelope of shaft speed, and needed the most durable gear set that could be engineered to keep up with that goal. The trade off for durability is the sound. We wanted to make sure this blower, would be capable of the boost levels, and Rpm's levels that hopefully the 350Z will be capable in the near future.
When a car is at idle there is a rapid change in the RPM, it is a small change but a change none the less. (every time a piston fires on the compression stroke there is a slight change in load) This rapid RPM change and load change gets translated to the blowers gears. As the gears load and unload countless times a second, a chatter, or sing can be produced. Once the blower is under load or the rpm's are continuous this condition does not exists, and the typical sound of a blower "hum or sing" will be produced. Anything that helps the 350Z's idle to be sooth with also help the blower sound to be smooth. IE Grounding kits, good plugs, etc.
If you have any further questions please contact us via phone 913-338-2886 or by E-mail or your dealer.
Thanks,
ATI
11-19-2003, 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by BlownG
Thanks ATI for the response!
Based on what I've been reading in other threads, this is what your customers need! Acurate and more timely information.
Thanks,
BlownG
Thanks ATI for the response!
Based on what I've been reading in other threads, this is what your customers need! Acurate and more timely information.
Thanks,
BlownG
Dear BlownG,
Thank you for the kind words, we have no issues helping out, and offering assistance. We have always been availble via phones, or E-mails for questions just as this. We have never before in the past been involved in the internet forums, though this might change. We are trying to find the best possible way to aid where we can. Though still the fastest, and best way to get ahold of us is not via forums. Other then recently, it is rare we are on them.
Thanks
ATI
11-19-2003, 11:47 AM
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well, I'm glad ATI is answering questions finally.
I originally emailed them about this problem (twice)
months ago. I emailed rather than calling because
of the pictures I attached. Neither email was replied
to and no I did not get a call. ATI's new found presence
here is welcomed though...
rob
ps. note that your answer didn't completely answer the
original problem where the key WAS STICKING OUT causing
the washer to be NOT FLAT against the pulley so IS THIS
a problem?
I originally emailed them about this problem (twice)
months ago. I emailed rather than calling because
of the pictures I attached. Neither email was replied
to and no I did not get a call. ATI's new found presence
here is welcomed though...
rob
ps. note that your answer didn't completely answer the
original problem where the key WAS STICKING OUT causing
the washer to be NOT FLAT against the pulley so IS THIS
a problem?
11-19-2003, 01:27 PM
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I fixed my rattle problem!!!
I pulled my blower and the intercoller piping out and had to slightly bend the pinch weld on the car right beneath the blower, it was vibrating on my frame and amplifying through the whole car.I then took some 3/8" hose and slit it down the middle and placed it on the pinch weld to dampen any vibration that may occur..To further dampen the vibration I placed some 3/8" hose around the tube comming from the blower to the intercooler, just in between the frame and tube then zip tied it in place...Now my car idles quiet and no vibration at all..ATI needs to take a closer look at their "bolt on" kit and redesign some things to fit better..No matter how I rearranged the piping it did not fit without me bending my pinch weld..
I would also like to tell ATI that their instruction book could have been a little better..It showed pictures of some things done that were not done untill several pages later and some parts disasemmbled that you didnt get to yet..
I am also convinced not to "tune" the fmu to ANYTHING other than stock settings..Some guy I know got tuned on Saturday and blew his engine on Sunday due to a LEAN condition.....I think I rather run rich and have a few less ponies than run the risk of swiss cheesing my pistons..Or at least till someone comes up with a better fuel management system..From what I am seeing is that all the blown engines have been the 2 rear cylinders which would indicate that the 2 rear ones run leaner than the rest...So an average optimum air fuel ratio sounds good but remember that the 2 rear cylinders may be running lean and if you are tunning to the edge for max power you may detonate in the 2 rear and KABOOM!!!
I pulled my blower and the intercoller piping out and had to slightly bend the pinch weld on the car right beneath the blower, it was vibrating on my frame and amplifying through the whole car.I then took some 3/8" hose and slit it down the middle and placed it on the pinch weld to dampen any vibration that may occur..To further dampen the vibration I placed some 3/8" hose around the tube comming from the blower to the intercooler, just in between the frame and tube then zip tied it in place...Now my car idles quiet and no vibration at all..ATI needs to take a closer look at their "bolt on" kit and redesign some things to fit better..No matter how I rearranged the piping it did not fit without me bending my pinch weld..
I would also like to tell ATI that their instruction book could have been a little better..It showed pictures of some things done that were not done untill several pages later and some parts disasemmbled that you didnt get to yet.. I am also convinced not to "tune" the fmu to ANYTHING other than stock settings..Some guy I know got tuned on Saturday and blew his engine on Sunday due to a LEAN condition.....I think I rather run rich and have a few less ponies than run the risk of swiss cheesing my pistons..Or at least till someone comes up with a better fuel management system..From what I am seeing is that all the blown engines have been the 2 rear cylinders which would indicate that the 2 rear ones run leaner than the rest...So an average optimum air fuel ratio sounds good but remember that the 2 rear cylinders may be running lean and if you are tunning to the edge for max power you may detonate in the 2 rear and KABOOM!!!