Shop Discussion Thread
I agree with Danny. Mike made it clear that he did not want any discussion in the shop rating thread. I certainly won't delete this thread. Please keep everything clean, on point, and avoid personal attacks if someone posts something you don't agree with. Instead, debate the issues in a mature manner.
I think the thread is a good idea, please use it. I will not close this thread. I want to make one thing clear though.
If you have a complaint against a shop, and feel the need to post it, by all means do. If you are quoting someone else's complaint or bringing another members issue into it just to stir the pot, the post will be taken down. These are peoples careers and buisness' we are talking about. If the shop did something to YOU yes its your money and they should be accountable for their actions and I would hope they would reply or at least share their side of the story.
Don't take it upon yourself you be the town crier and the savior of the FI community.
If you have a complaint against a shop, and feel the need to post it, by all means do. If you are quoting someone else's complaint or bringing another members issue into it just to stir the pot, the post will be taken down. These are peoples careers and buisness' we are talking about. If the shop did something to YOU yes its your money and they should be accountable for their actions and I would hope they would reply or at least share their side of the story.
Don't take it upon yourself you be the town crier and the savior of the FI community.
As long as its credible id still like to hear it regardless of who it came from, i dont think it should matter if its the owner or not. Helps me from throwing my money in the wrong direction.
Let us also not forget about libel. I think we have enough law suits flying around now as it is. We don't need more shops suing its clients for posting their stories.
While I have no love or respect for GTM and would like to see more transparency/equality on the forums regarding negative feedback/experiences about shops (which can be verified by my post history and anyone who knows me)... Both of the other locked threads began with a public statement by Sam to inform the community that Forged would no longer be a reseller of GTM products. The statement did not contain any specific details, accusations, or personal insults. Nor did Sam make any other posts including such.
However, the thread started by Jay'Z was a blatantly obvious act of retaliation for his butthurt feelings about Sam informing the community of his business decision. He proceeded to openly and directly taunt Sam about a parts sale incident/issue on another thread that doesn't involve Forged or him.
He is the last person who should have brought this issue to the attention of the FI section IMO.
Last edited by RudeG_v2.0; Apr 18, 2010 at 12:18 PM.
^^
Spot on!, i have zero sympathy for two-faced people acting as be victims who never man-up and blame others for their poor work...BUT as rude said, his other thread would have been ok if it wasnt becaue of too ovbious instigating/rehashing/trolling....someone else., such as the person who he quoted, should have been the OP of the thread though.
thats bs(not directed at you storm)..... credible direct hand knowledge at the least wouldl be needed, but other than that people shouldnt be pussified from posting their experience, nor those with direct knowledge....
Spot on!, i have zero sympathy for two-faced people acting as be victims who never man-up and blame others for their poor work...BUT as rude said, his other thread would have been ok if it wasnt becaue of too ovbious instigating/rehashing/trolling....someone else., such as the person who he quoted, should have been the OP of the thread though.
Let us also not forget about libel. I think we have enough law suits flying around now as it is. We don't need more shops suing its clients for posting their stories.
What's next? We get calls from these attorneys for posting our thoughts? The shutting down of the internet save for only positive reviews? I think we should all make it known how we disapprove of this type of action.
Thread Starter
Registered User
iTrader: (6)
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,732
Likes: 1
From: South Flordia
Exactly if you are post 100% first hand factual informatant how can you be libel. The community has been pleagued for to long of silence, cover ups, hush hush crap. We need to see how shops work, they all make mistakes, no one is perfect. Sometimes it takes a kick in the butt to show you what you have been doing wrong.
Exactly if you are post 100% first hand factual informatant how can you be libel. The community has been pleagued for to long of silence, cover ups, hush hush crap. We need to see how shops work, they all make mistakes, no one is perfect. Sometimes it takes a kick in the butt to show you what you have been doing wrong.
well back last year in july... i took my car to a so called reputable shop called e-shift performance in central new jersey to get my camshafts installed as long as headers and a dyno.... anyways everything was fine until i left the place and 10 minutes later my oil drain plug fell out bc they forgot to tighten it.. ALL my oil was lost and thank god i was down the street from my friends house when this happend and my motor was saved... i called them immediately and since it was the 3rd of july they all went home and were on a 3 day vacation.. when he got my message he called me and told me that he thought it was on tight .. but obviously not.. than come to find out a kid at a local dealership had the same problem a few months before with his honda.. it seems that they only worry about their reputable builds and stuff.. i thought that i was in good hands ... but mike miranda (the owner) proved me wrong.. and my steering wheel was all JAcked up since they messed my alignment up.. they also didnt fix that either.. and as many of you know cams isnt cheap labor and neither is headers..
theres no way a thread like this can be fair and impartial, regardless of who it comes from. even if it comes from the owner, his feelings can cause him to be irrational and make harsh comments without thinking them thru and being honest. how many times have you guys gotten mad about something and posted it without taking the time to thinik it over. when something goes wrong with your car, even if its your fault, its easy to place blame, it happens all too often around here. even if a shop does you right and youre pissed about something else, stories can be made up to make a shop look bad.
theres no way a thread like this can be fair and impartial, regardless of who it comes from. even if it comes from the owner, his feelings can cause him to be irrational and make harsh comments without thinking them thru and being honest. how many times have you guys gotten mad about something and posted it without taking the time to thinik it over. when something goes wrong with your car, even if its your fault, its easy to place blame, it happens all too often around here. even if a shop does you right and youre pissed about something else, stories can be made up to make a shop look bad.
Last edited by stormcrow; Apr 15, 2010 at 06:22 PM.
im totally disregarding the talk about suits and libel. im commenting only in regards to those posting things being truthful and honest.
who is to say what is the truth or not, its all he said she said. unless its recorded (or photographed) or something is signed, might as well **** in the wind. i just hate that the internet has become a mediator or threat tactic to be used to get things done. what did we do before the internet.
who is to say what is the truth or not, its all he said she said. unless its recorded (or photographed) or something is signed, might as well **** in the wind. i just hate that the internet has become a mediator or threat tactic to be used to get things done. what did we do before the internet.
Last edited by tig488; Apr 15, 2010 at 06:28 PM.
they did not do anything as far as giving me back money or helping me out in any way.. its not like hes a mean guy or anything he was very nice and talked about how hes done many vqs.. it just goes to show that some ppl make mistakes when maybe they might not care as much bc its not a built 500 whp supra... who knows what they think. but i just wanted to post on this thread since this is what the thread is for.. no exaggeration or anything its just that simple of what happend. mike miranda himself can admit it himself.. since my cousin is the one who knew him and mike told my cousin to have me come down there .. he gave me a great deal since the start of the cams compared to other prices on shops .. but he screwed me up
Since there seem to be questions/misunderstandings as to libel, here is some basic information:
Libel is defamation in the form of defamatory statements made in a printed or fixed medium. In order to prove defamation, the plaintiff must prove:
1. there was a publication to one other than the plaintiff; and
2. the publication makes a false statement of fact that is understood as being of and concerning the plaintiff, and that tends to harm the reputation of the plaintiff.
3. If the plaintiff is a public fugure, he/she must also prove actual malice.
Generally speaking, an opinion cannot be defamatory. Just stating "in my opinion" does not necessarily mean a statement will be interpreted by Courts as being merely an opinion, though. Courts look at whether a reasonable reader or listener could understand the statement as asserting a statement of verifiable fact. SOME Courts, however, take the position that statements made in the context of an Internet bulletin board or chat room are highly likely to be opinions or hyperbole, but they do look at the remark in context to see if it's likely to be interpreted by others as being a statement of fact.
In sum, if someone presents their experiences without making any false statements of fact that tend to harm the reputation of a person, company, etc., there is no libel. Nonetheless, keep in mind that it sometimes is hard to prove whether a statement is indeed true or false. Generally speaking, this is a civil issue, thus the Courts will evaluate the preponderance of the evidence.
Libel is defamation in the form of defamatory statements made in a printed or fixed medium. In order to prove defamation, the plaintiff must prove:
1. there was a publication to one other than the plaintiff; and
2. the publication makes a false statement of fact that is understood as being of and concerning the plaintiff, and that tends to harm the reputation of the plaintiff.
3. If the plaintiff is a public fugure, he/she must also prove actual malice.
Generally speaking, an opinion cannot be defamatory. Just stating "in my opinion" does not necessarily mean a statement will be interpreted by Courts as being merely an opinion, though. Courts look at whether a reasonable reader or listener could understand the statement as asserting a statement of verifiable fact. SOME Courts, however, take the position that statements made in the context of an Internet bulletin board or chat room are highly likely to be opinions or hyperbole, but they do look at the remark in context to see if it's likely to be interpreted by others as being a statement of fact.
In sum, if someone presents their experiences without making any false statements of fact that tend to harm the reputation of a person, company, etc., there is no libel. Nonetheless, keep in mind that it sometimes is hard to prove whether a statement is indeed true or false. Generally speaking, this is a civil issue, thus the Courts will evaluate the preponderance of the evidence.
Last edited by ttg35fort; Apr 16, 2010 at 08:07 AM.
Since there seem to be questions/misunderstandings as to libel, here is some basic information:
Libel is defamation in the form of defamatory statements made in a printed or fixed medium. In order to prove defamation, the plaintiff must prove:
1. there was a publication to one other than the plaintiff; and
2. the publication makes a false statement of fact that is understood as being of and concerning the plaintiff, and that tends to harm the reputation of the plaintiff.
3. If the plaintiff is a public fugure, he/she must also prove actual malice.
Generally speaking, an opinion cannot be defamatory. Just stating "in my opinion" does not necessarily mean a statement will be interpreted by Courts as being merely an opinion, though. Courts look at whether a reasonable reader or listener could understand the statement as asserting a statement of verifiable fact. SOME Courts, however, take the position that statements made in the context of an Internet bulletin board or chat room are highly likely to be opinions or hyperbole, but they do look at the remark in context to see if it's likely to be interpreted by others as being a statement of fact.
In sum, if someone presents their experiences without making any false statements of fact that tend to harm the reputation of a person, company, etc., there is no libel. Nonetheless, keep in mind that it sometimes is hard to prove whether a statement is indeed true or false. Generally speaking, this is a civil issue, thus the Courts will evaluate the preponderance of the evidence.
Libel is defamation in the form of defamatory statements made in a printed or fixed medium. In order to prove defamation, the plaintiff must prove:
1. there was a publication to one other than the plaintiff; and
2. the publication makes a false statement of fact that is understood as being of and concerning the plaintiff, and that tends to harm the reputation of the plaintiff.
3. If the plaintiff is a public fugure, he/she must also prove actual malice.
Generally speaking, an opinion cannot be defamatory. Just stating "in my opinion" does not necessarily mean a statement will be interpreted by Courts as being merely an opinion, though. Courts look at whether a reasonable reader or listener could understand the statement as asserting a statement of verifiable fact. SOME Courts, however, take the position that statements made in the context of an Internet bulletin board or chat room are highly likely to be opinions or hyperbole, but they do look at the remark in context to see if it's likely to be interpreted by others as being a statement of fact.
In sum, if someone presents their experiences without making any false statements of fact that tend to harm the reputation of a person, company, etc., there is no libel. Nonetheless, keep in mind that it sometimes is hard to prove whether a statement is indeed true or false. Generally speaking, this is a civil issue, thus the Courts will evaluate the preponderance of the evidence.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Lt_Ballzacki
Brakes & Suspension
39
Aug 6, 2021 06:19 AM
