Exactly. Superchargers wont put out the huge numbers turbo'd engines will. This is the first vendor I actually like. Preach on brother. School these FI noobs. God knows there are many of them here

 

So far, nobody has brought any tech to back up the ridiculous claim that superchargers don't work on Nissan vehicles. Until that time comes, I hardly think anybody is getting schooled. Absolute power potential isn't the only factor when choosing how to produce power, so that age old argument about "huge numbers" doesn't mean much. This might be a newsflash to you but I, like many others, are not in some kind of horsepower war. So you can make more power with a turbo than a supercharger kit makes right now. Big deal, the ATI supercharger can operate efficiently at 15 psi+. There's a lot more power potential left there if someone wants to build the motor and associated equipment up to support the boost.

BTW, you're right about one thing. There are a lot of forced induction newbies here...but don't ASSume that anybody supporting supercharging is one.

 

You really have a lot of nerve coming on here saying that we're FI noobs.

 

Dude, your a *****ng d*ck

 

How old are you?

 

You know it, You know how it is... They will learn!!

 

what so new about this.. yeah its a rule of thumb that SC have a higher parasitic drag on engines than turbos.. so what???? the efficiency of turbos are great for top end power and speed while, SCs, given their linear boost ,are better for acceleration situations.. it all depends on what you want to accomplish..

as far as the initial post.. talk about shooting yourself in the foot.. I'm sure you will get so many more customers because of this post... "Superchargers have never worked properly on a Nissan Car, I don't know why it's gonna start working now".. you have done such a service and enlightened so many potential customers just how much you know about cars.. best of luck

 

Some Nissan Dealers are now installing them as a factory option on our Z's with warranty.

I guess you tow your new car home? :-)

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ether
[B]what so new about this.. yeah its a rule of thumb that SC have a higher parasitic drag on engines than turbos.. so what???? the efficiency of turbos are great for top end power and speed while, SCs, given their linear boost ,are better for acceleration situations.. it all depends on what you want to accomplish..


Agreed, but who in their right mind would call a centrufigal supercharger linear ??? Positive displacement blowers and Lysholm screw compressors maybe but NOT centrifigual compressors. As for turbos having top end power only, I would like to see a centrifigual compressor car run roll on against a car with reasonable sized twins, say twin Garrett GT-25xx's. I suspect while the S/C car was struggling to make some decent intake pressure and resultant torque @3k RPM, after a second the TT car would be in the 350-400 Lb/FT range and just walking away as if they were in a lower gear.

With all the blown motors in the S/C cars why oh why has no one tried water injection. I am from the TT RX-7 world. Those engines are more intolerant of detonation than the VQ( you hear detonation, it's to late). There are several perople with FI rotaries, some TT, some single. One person has a first gen single turbo making 550RWHP on a Dynapack. This on pump fuel @20PSI with water injection. He and several others SWEAR by it. Once I can scrape up the $ for FI, I will be after some kind of turbos and W.I. Same for the Turbo Buick people. Just something to think about

 

Anyone care to explain the different types of blowers?
Tell me more about water injection.

 

There are the Roots/Eaton style blowers (Positive Displacement) that have a very linear powerband. This would be the type of blower used on the stillen kit. The power comes on instantly and stay pretty continuous to redline. These kits usually sit on top of or replace the intake manifold.

The Procharger is more of a centrifigal supgercharger. It is like a turbo but is belt driven instead of exhaust driven (turbo). The power builds as the the rpms do with a kick coming in somewhere around 3k to 4k rpms. These types of superchargers look a lot like turbos in appearance and usually placed around where the stock intake sits.

Water injection is just spraying water into the manifold to help cool the air charge. Usually the water is iced down for best results and there are some that run an alcohol/water combination with good results. Personally I think an intercooler is better, but that is just my opinion.

I come from the Honda world where running boost on 10:2 comression ratio and up is really the norm. Tuning is always going to be the key and there are always going to be blown motors.

I wouldn't put much on what COZ said other than I think most should wait until the kits have been out for a while and see what works and what doesn't. Turbo vs Supercharger is always going to be a hot debate, but unless your car has built internals you won't be running enough boost to really make that much difference. For instance at 7psi a Supercharger and Turbo will make within 10hp of each other with the same tuning.

 

Ok, here we go. This will take some time for me to type.
Positive displacement blowers. This class of blower does no compression of the air internally. It is nothing more then a glorified air pump. For example, say you have a 2 liter engine and a 2 liter P.D. blower. If you run the blower at 1/2 crank speed you (in theory) will have unity and no compression and no boost. If you spin the blower at crank speed you will have a 2 liter blower pushing out 2 litres of air every rotation. The engine ingests 1 liter of air per revolution so you have a 2 to 1 ratio and I think 1 ATM of boost, not sure about the ratio of displacement to effective boost. But thats the crux of how that blower works.

Centrufigal compressors.
This class of blower is basicly a turbocharger driven from the crankshaft through a gear increasing system. This class of blowers use the inertia of the air to "sling" it and compress it. Therefore they are subject to the Physics known as the fan laws. Their pressure curve rises with the square of compressor shaft RPM,:
For example if the fan produced 200 Pa at an impeller speed of 1000 rpm. At 2000rpm the same fan would produce:

p2 = 200 x (2000/1000 )² = 800 Pa.

That's why this class of blowers make max boost at max design engine rpm. And at 1/2 max RPM, they make 1/4 that. Some more modern designs do better then the classic fan law, but they cannot totally over ride the laws of Phyics.

Lysholm are screw compressors that are Positive Displacement compressors, but they do some compressing internally also and have a higher effiency than a traditional Roots blower.

Turbo chargers are Basicly the same as a centrufigal compressor but with a variable speed drive system that is both simple as bricks and quite complex.
Any more Questions and I will try to answer as I have time

Edited for spelling.
Jay

 

WI is Injected into the intake tract usualy after the compressor method and intercooler. It serves to lower the temperature of combustion and reduce detonation.
The main function of water injection is to suppress detonation caused by high temperature and pressure developed within the combustion chamber when
the effective compression ratio has been taken beyond the auto-ignition point by either a turbo or a supercharger. Water, with its high latent heat content, is extremely effective for controlling
not only the onset of detonation but also the production of oxides of nitrogen in the modern leanburn engines. It DOES NOT replace an intercooler, but rather adds to the intercooler's benefit in the combustion process. You can run either seperately, but running both brings the maximum benefit to horsepower generation and reliability.
Jay.

 

I just want to make the slight correction and say that water injection kits usually spray atomized water into the intake manifold, not the supercharger housing. Also, water injection is not mutually exclusive with an intercooler. They are often used in combination.

The reason to use water injection is because of it's high specific-heat. This chemical property allows the water to "consume" a lot of the heat in the combustion chamber as it changes from the liquid to gaseous state, thereby reducing combustion temperatures and reducing detonation.

To my knowledge, icing this water down doesn't help a whole lot. Iced water is typically used when spraying water onto the intercooler fins to improve cooling there. You can see a system like this on the EVO8 and the STi.

EDIT: SoFL_g nailed it and provided a great description before I could.

 

Thank you azrael, couldn't agree more. I would still like to see a VQ with both.

 

I know there are cars with ATI Superchargers that has blown engine, but what about Stillen? Has there been any cars with Stillen Supercharger with blown engine? anyone knows?

 

We should already have a VORTECH lined up, he should have talked to the editor already for Sport Z Magazine

Can't wait!

 

My buddy has a turbo VW motor with water injection. It's an old aircooled model. Anyways, he swears by running alcohol based windshield washer fluid through it. That car could move. Anyways, I helped him rebuild his turbocharger and when we pulled off the compressor housing off the Turbo, the whole inside was florescent blue, it was some funny ****. Anyways, that's my little anecdote about Water injection. Probably not funny to all of you. It was one of those you had to be there things.

I agree water injection has it's places in boosted motors. Haven't really looked into it at all for my setup. Mainly because the intercooler is pretty big on this setup. Intake temps are only running 20-25 degrees above ambient on my car. Now, since I'm moving to Arizona in a couple of weeks, I will definitely start looking into this option because intake temps will be much higher during next summer.

 

Profit margin is better on a TT. thats the real reason.

 

In my opinion its a pointless debate. The one thing on this board that everyone shares is a passion for the 350z. The exception is some of our vendors. Im not gonna name any names but im sure you know who im talking about. Whether or not a turbo or supercharger is a better form of FI? Good question. there are so many angles to look at its crazy. I had a prelude with a Greddy turbo kit on it. The kit bit the big one and made very little low end power. My buddy had the same car with a supercharger. His car was faster off the line then mine. I had the top end though. Its true a turbo car has more potential and if you turn the boost to a psi that no average consumer will ever see it will be fun for the little bit it works. the amount of time and money it takes to make a turbo or supercharged car run smoothly and efficiently above 9 psi is more than most of want to spend. So let us mod our cars in the way we want to. The way i look at it is the more options we have the better chance of one of em suiting our needs. so please dont pizz on our parade. If ive learned anything in the short 5 years ive been tuning cars its make your own decisions and dont be influenced by the select dickz that are tryin to push thier product by discouraging others. thats bad business and doesnt belong on a board full of positive people. So to each his own. Thanks James