I have to agree with you on this and this is why i think this site is going down hill fast.

 

My favorite part is where Sylvan agrees with me:

I've never seen someone so angry with me who ends up saying the same thing as I have just said. (There are commas and stuff missing, but the guy said he's getting crushed at work...)
Let's not hi-jack this thread any longer. There's a guy on Vancouver Island looking for a tune/install shop that can put a turbo in for him. Who can recommend a place for him?
Try to not suggest a place far away, because both me and my new BFF, Sylvan, think that there should be a place fairly near him that can do the job.
And Sylvan, if you think I was suggesting a lube shop, I don't know where you got the idea. There should be some place with the experience to do the job in a city/region that size. Someone should be able to suggest a place. That's what these forums are for. Forums are just a bunch of people's opinions and lots of them are crap. You have to use your judgement to sift through the crap and find something worthwhile. You can't say that I have no place expressing my alleged BS here. It's not like you have to show proof of 15psi boost to chat, or have a Premium Membership or whatever.

 

You don't need any credentials to give advice most people have the common sense to only give advice if they have experience in the topic at hand of course there is always the arrogant ***** that thinks he knows everything.

 

Jesus... this thread took off on me. Sorry guys- been treading water a bit with the project while I hover on other options that were offered to me. I see it went on a bit of a runaway there but I'm glad to see that despite the "What happened to the FI section" and "Remember the fun we used to have" thread that there are still loads of guys in here passionate about the subject. True, they don't always agree... but isn't that what added a little flair anyway?

To post a brief update on my situation. ALL the parts for the build are in. The fuel system- rails, regulator, injectors, fuel pump, return- showed up a couple weeks ago and I approached a shop called "Autofx" in Vic. Progressive was the other option, and then an outfit in squammish called "Rocket Rally Racing" was proposed to me by a few locals and one non-local (dustin / red)- but they only work on Subies.

Both Autofx and Progressive have their share of supporters from some enthusiasts I've talked to on island... Judging by what I've seen in other threads getting a shop to come clean in the interest of the build alone is unlikely- where I know that guys like Sasha and Dustin and Gord (not necessarily in that order, Gord!) maintain a passion for the finished product that I can't say you run into every day. Other names he mentioned in an earlier post apply as well- his word is good enough for me, with or without correct punctuation!

Anyway guys- thanks for hanging on for me. If it hadn't been the holidays I'd have been more active in here but the project slammed to a halt about the same time I received the last parts the week before Christmas (and I had to go back to work.)

I'm going to do some research!


And by the way- I resemble at LEAST HALF of this remark...

 

Okay guys... well the build has begun. Sorry it took so long but as I'm sure you're all aware that's how things like this go sometimes.

Well, this is the collection of emails that I've woken up to:

Hi Ian, yes things are progressing with the g......lot more work than i thought,,,,,,couple things we need to chat about, would like to remove the aftermarket ground wires as they are redundant....also, with the turbos, the wastgates that came with the turbos are opening at around 10psi and should open around 7, do you know if these turbos are for the kit or are they ones that will work with the kit, as far as i can see these wastegates will need to be replaced.....



Hey Ian,

We have confirmed that your wastegates are rated at 12-14 psi, they are part number 480009-6. From our info we've gathered, your kit is supposed to be rated at 7 psi for your stock motor. So...

you need something like this:

http://www.frsport.com/FRS-Universal...09_p_9624.html

We can only assume that these turbos were off a "built" motor, or a stock one that went "boom".... :-D



Hi Ian, further to my last email, contacted jim wolf about the kit, from this info, we have some large concerns, the three areas are, 1, the turbos are larger than the ones that come in the kit, thus the wastgate problem, designed to work with an engine with lower compression, 2, fuel system, changing from returnless to return style was built for a low compression engine and you may have huge problems with tunning with these injectors and system, 3, sounds like the intercooler will require new plumbing in some areas, and fitment of the intercooler may be problematic, as we can see already, when triing to drill the 3" holes for the intercooler, they will interfere with the air conditioning tubing......

Not sure which way you would like to go.....we would recommend going with the factory pieces from jwt....


Sigh.

So yes- we're into our first problems. I'm not sure if they're assuming it was a 530bb... but it sounds like everything is for the 700bb kit but they're looking at it as a 530 maybe? Anyway, I'm going to call them in a bit here but any feedback from the network would be a big help!

Edit:

I've just talked to the shop and they were aware of the different kit sizes- even the guys at JWT are saying that with the built fuel, enormous injectors and large turbos... I may have bitten off more than I can chew. And I can almost hear Gord slapping his forehead shouting "noooooooooooooooooooo don't chicken out you puss!" I'm still forging ahead but they made a couple good recommendations.

From JWT: Even if you can dummy down those 700 turbos, they'll be so choked down and inefficient, while still delivering so much air that it will cause problems. The intercooler from the 350 will be less efficient than that designed for the G.

Apparently the shop did have to lift the engine 3" to get the turbos to get in the ballpark, and even then nothing seemed to be coming together. Apparently the fuel system is already in... but JWT has stated that having the return system causes problems as the system gets downgraded... and needs to be "de-tuned" so much that it again causes enormous headaches.

I did toss out the idea of just getting it over with and building the bottom end- wondering if that was going to be the same as purchasing the replacement parts for the turbo. To be blunt, as much as I am into spending good money for good things- a built motor isn't going to be THAT good.

Additionally- I don't have the experience that guys like Sasha, Dustin, Gord and so many others have to deal with the leaks, the blown up motors ( ) and tweaking. So as much as I want to keep the fuel system in after all the trouble Dustin went to get it to me... if I downgrade the working parts to the 530 it'll be too much fuel... especially with the 680 injectors I have from Gord.

So I think the course of action I'm leaning towards is: Purchase new intercoolers (G35 variety), 530bb turbos, and take out the fuel system. Maybe we leave the rails in and get smaller injectors?

Anyway... I'll post photos if I get some over the weekend. I'm putting it out to the community for feedback on this course of action. Are the shops being too conservative- Seems to me I heard a stock block is good to 10psi but it doesn't sound like choking the 700 turbos will work the way we'd want.

 

while im not sure what you can get parts for a quick google search shows that the turbos alone are around 2200, seems your kinda sol on intercoolers, then figure in cost of new stuff for fuel system and payment to take the stuff out then put it back in. granted you can sell the old stuff but its unlikely you will get nearly as much as you have invested.

a new shortblock from ipp is 2600 or 3550 for stag 1 and 2 personally im grabbin the stage 2 as i havnt seen any vq35 dien from stock sleeves under boost so im gona see what they will handle. ends up being how much you wanna spend to get it done, seems like you already have alot invested, how much power you want and if you decide you want more power later are you gona pay again to buy back the stuff you already have now?

ive wasted alot of money changing my mind, deciding im gona do one thing and starting to buy things, then changing my mind and going for a lower power level, then later on down the road buying the stuff i already had at the beginning again.

 

Eh Jerry... thanks for the feedback and even the initial research.

The part that makes this whole process so tantalizingly confusing for me is on one hand the build I'm doing is essentially a duplication on a build... in fact, it's even his fuel system straight out of his car. So in theory all the parts should come together and work. General feedback I'm getting on the g35driver side are pointing towards staying the course. The shop might be a bit over their head with the project- but working with them through it will help it out.

But all the indicators from the guys doing the work (remember, I'm no car guy) and JWT are pointing towards downgrading.

Also, thanks for the pointers on the built blocks. Sure beats the teardown on a stock block and a rebuild... I suppose for those of you doing your own work it's a reasonable alternative... and if the guy doing the tuning on this build doesn't know his stuff I might just have to go that route anyway!


So if I stay the course, I'm getting a car that has already been built and running strong for 3 years. If I change it out, I waste a bunch of money that I might want to reinvest as my desires change anyway... but might not have to replace an engine. But it's already been proven and shouldn't be necessary.

Oh man- NOW I see what makes the FI community so awesome!

 

my thoughts are in bold type


Fire your shop

 

Those guys have no fraking idea what they're doing...

If you need a reputable shop to move the car to I can get you in touch with one in the Seattle area that is very knowledgeable about 350z/G35's and FI in particular.

 

Elegantly put throughout, but to the point. Don't be too too harsh on them... remember a lot of what I'm saying might be a little away from the proper technical jargon they used-

And on that note I wish these shops had an open network where they could work together instead of against one another all the time. Everyone's keeping these secrets (as was discussed in the old school thread of old) and keeping them close to their chest. It'd be nice for me to be able to say... "There's a shop in Seattle that does this kind of work all the time and know the work arounds. Talk straight to them and get it sorted out."

I wish I had the knowledge you guys do... but then again that's part of the reason I wanted to get involved in this. It's starting to roll in- believe me!

I'm also the guy who is going to have to go to the shop and say "I don't know how to do it, but they say it's easy so make it happen."

I am confident in the shop and the guys doing the work- but I'm also aware of the fact that it IS a big project. Worse comes to worse I get the build done and if the guy doesn't feel confident doing the tune I flat-deck it back to alberta and take it to the shop that tuned the one this is based on.

The main difference I'm concerned about between this build and the other one is that his is HR and mine is DE. It's this compression issue I'm concerned about- is the difference enough that it changes everything in your opinions?
(10.6:1 vs 10.3:1) (from my research) Also a bit unnerving is that according to Nissan "80% of the internals were upgraded" to deal with increased HP...

Thanks again Str8.

 

everyone starts somewhere, when i started modding 3rd gen camaros(82-92) i hardly knew anything it comes down to research and experimentation to learn to do this stuff, granted thats a much much cheaper platform to do it on. im honestly very new to this platform myself but im thinking im gona stick with z's now lol. personally i like to build stuff expecting upgrades that arnt planned yet due to previously wasted money it ends up being cheaper in the long run.

it seems its been summed up in a few previous responses that even if the shop is good they might be a bit over there heads and are trying to talk you into something that they are more comfortable with. i know if it was someone elses car and i wasnt 100% sure i could do the job thats what i would do.

since your motor has a lower compression ratio you will be able to run a little more boost/timing how much more is only something that will vary from engine to engine and you might only be able to run the same amount there too many factors to figure in but thats the way it usually works.

 

Hey Ian i have been swamped and work and Friday night i was up all night working on my car so I havent been on the internet since Thursday.

Rich is correct in all of his replies.

The 350 and the G35 intercooler will not make a difference they are the same cores. The 350 one is welded together in the middle the G35 one has a pipe in the middle, with your aftermarket bumper you would not see a difference in cooling between the two.

The 3" intake pipe they are worried about is the same on the 350 and G35 and most other TT kits for that matter. As Rich said you have to bend the AC lines and cut a hole.

The waste gates should as they said open at 10psi for the 700bb kit. 10psi should not be an issue with a good tune, many people run 10psi on a stock block as you know Dustin has run that for 3 years on his and the Bottom end on a DE and rev up are the same.

Fuel return systems should be easier to tune than a returnless system and the injectors are not that big at all to supply fuel for the 10psi you would need something close to 550cc any way. I fully intended to run those 680cc on my stock engine before i got the built engine and went with 1000cc.

Again the turbos will still be sleeping at 10psi.....so I am not sure why that is an issue, they will spool a little slower than the 530bb kit but they will leave room to upgrade in the future. 530bb kits are only good if you only want to run them on a stock block. I would run 700bb if I had a stock block that is a lie, I run 850bb on my stock block but that is another story.

After reading this my confidence is shaken in the shop you are using Jim Wolf is a very smart man and I have talked to him on several occasions and he has helped me sort a few things out. One thing I learned he dosent like return fuel systems on these cars and he also wants things as safe as possible so there are no story's about blown engines with his kit. I take some of his advice with a grain of salt.


So yes quit being a ***** and tell the shop to bolt on all of the parts you have given them. I think one of the Intercooler pipes needs to be modified to make the 350Z kit fit a G35 so it shouldn't be a big enough issue that you need to buy all new piping and Intercoolers.

 

Dude, by no means am I saying I have the answer, but aren't you worried that this would be giving the shop a blank cheque to say, "OK smart guy. Ignore our advice and we can blow your engine without any fault." You mentioned that his evidence suggests that they don't seem 100% knowledgeable. Would bailing on them be an option in order to prevent any serious damage?

 

His question wasn't should I find a new shop it was should I take their advice and downgrade all of my parts. I told him the start to take it to Lightspeed where they have installed 5 JWT TT kits so he knows my feeling on this. I don't think the guys installing the kit are the same guys tuning it either if I recall right he was going to a different shop for tuning? I also think that is a mistake because if issues arise the finger pointing occurs.

I also would hope the shop is professional enough not to try to damage his car because he didn't listen to them.

You open a whole new can of worms pulling a 1/2 built car out of a shop and trying to take it to another shop, usually the new shop will want to tear it right back down and start over proving to be very costly. I am not sure what I would do in this case....it is not a good situation be in that is for sure.

I would put a built bottom end in before I down graded all of the parts you have, turbos are $2200, you need 1 different exhaust manifold for the 530 kit vs the 700 kit that is $400 injectors and intercoolers will be over $1000. For $3500 you can get a forged internal short block from most of the vendors on this site. In my opinion you would be better off that route. Also it should be noted that this is by no means a 1 off build several guys have done similar builds and they turned out fine so I would go with what he has get the shop to bolt on the supplied parts and take it to a good tuner.

 

He should have left the car at my place before moving, and I would have set him up with the BP ST at a great discount because the car is an A/T. He would have driven away with a turbo car, and I would have had a kit that would fit the autos. Win win.

Ahh well, too late now.

 

Argh... I'm shaking my head because I know how close we came to sealing that deal and of course now I regret it a bit. I also know about the LSI route and should have considered keeping the car in Alberta a couple months longer.

With this all being said I am lucky to have you guys on board with me now even though I suppose I went against much of your advice in the past (and I hope never to hear the end of it!) . I am confident that the shop is full if keen guys who will do their very best to get it done right.

So I have sent the instructions to stay the course and I'm confident in the direction it's going. I'll find out where this Marco in Vancouver works out of and see where we're at there. Apparently he's pretty well known in the area so we'll see. But it sounds like the tune is where we make or break engines so I'm going to be really careful about it. Careful enough that if there's any doubt then I'll fricken trailer the damned thing back to Red Deer / Seattle / Edmonton / Wherever if I have to.

 

Eh guys.

Well the build has carried on through the original challenges and is nearing completion... On the hardware side, anyway. Everything is as it should be- I didn't get them to downgrade anything and apparently most of the issues have been worked out.

I've run into a bit of conflict with regards to the tuning side and whether or not the cobb will manage. Someone I trusts says it should be fine with the right guy tuning it- another guy I trust say it'll be a stretch and I should go to something with more mustard... Haltech came up enough times in the past I figured I'd go with that.

I'm having a bit of trouble locating one- though it looked like there was one on sale from a sponsor / vendor from this site I've inquired about. Sounds like it was an awesome deal so we'll see.

I'm including some photos. The shop has pushed through the wastegate issue we were having with some help from Cam at Lightspeed Innovations from Red Deer, AB. There has been some obvious and anticipated clearance issues but the shop seems to be going strong with it.

If anyone has a line on a used Haltech or they're planning to upgrade please drop me a line and let me know! I don't have any itrader rating in here but I can be found with the same name over in Driver.

To the pics!

 

A couple more...

 

haltech is a good route, if you cant locate one uprev is another great route and theres a local tuner here in seattle that travels and tunes uprev aswell he tuned my HR Z (stock block with the gtm stage 2 with 800cc injectors) with no problems at all.