e-manage users PLEASE READ
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 174
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From: Las Vegas
Originally posted by phunk
azrael: Well that was my entire plan...
The problem is that the E-Manage cannot fire 6 sequential secondaries.. therefore you could not just do a secondary rail, you would hve to put the secondaries in the charge pipe. The problem with this is getting proper fuel distribution between the cylinders and proper atomization, this could be very possible but I personally am not gonna be the one to do individual cylinder datalogin just in ATTEMPT to run some seconaries. OR you could just leave the E-Manage alone and run a Rebic AIC controller and a pair of secondary rails... which is an option.
What would I do if I were someone who wanted to try and use the E-Manage? Well I would experiment with different setups. The less injector correction factor your running, the more the car will drive like it should given proper air/fuel.
Please dont use this as any type of guide because I have NOT tried this yet, this is just simple where I would start playing around if I were to attempt the E-Manage, and perhaps I will for the more budget minded.
I would probably attempt a setup utilizing an upgraded fuel pump with a return line system and a 1:1 standard fuel pressure regulator. I would try the 440 injectors, and idle/vacuum fuel pressure a little below stock, so that the closed loop cycle can properly handle the extra fuel with ease with as little injector correction factor in the E-Manage that I can get away with. At this point it wouldnt be a bad idea to just tune the car as is without any boost, just to get your vacuum and driveability all squared away with this new setup. TO AN EXTENT I would always prefer to drop fuel pressure than to use injector correction. I would rather start lean and use the additional injection map to richen it up, rather then to start rich and use the airflow (injector correction does this) to lean it.
If you ask why I dont like the injector correction factor or playing with airflow readings... well... all those years and years of R&D and research Nissan did on ignition timing control for your engine... you can throw it out the window if you have any airflow corrections going on. Yes the car will run, and maybe YOU wont notice the difference.. but its not uncommon for people to blow their engines not imagining how much they advanced their timing by trying to tell the ECU that its running lower airflow.
From here, it should be possible to get the car running very good outside of boost. As for boost, heres where I would take it. As rediculous as this sounds, I would probably toss in a Rising Rate FMU, such as the Vortech, and I would start with a 6:1 or so spring. WTF would I do that? Well, a 440 injector IMHO is small. Sure bigger would be nice, but its easier said than done getting a E-Manage car running well with extremely oversized injectors. Not to mention what I said about airflow correction. I would put in this FMU only to ASSIST the itty bitty 440s since it is a boost only factor. Basically the FMU will increase fuel pressure by 6 psi per every 1 psi of boost. This means it will take far less additional injection mapping to get proper airflow... and therefore I will not reach peak duty cycle until higher boost levels. If the 6:1 had the car running rich without any add. inj. mapping, then I would put in a smaller spring. I would want the car to run just a little bit lean with just the FMU, then pick up the extra fuel thru the add. inj.
Rigged? You bet, but I bet it would work. Maybe Ill try it out in the Z.
I actually have an interesting Honda Civic at my shop that we bult for a customer and we are testing this exact setup. I will have it on the dyno to attempt tuning as soon as I get the machine up and running at my shop... I still have to excavate the ground.
azrael: Well that was my entire plan...
The problem is that the E-Manage cannot fire 6 sequential secondaries.. therefore you could not just do a secondary rail, you would hve to put the secondaries in the charge pipe. The problem with this is getting proper fuel distribution between the cylinders and proper atomization, this could be very possible but I personally am not gonna be the one to do individual cylinder datalogin just in ATTEMPT to run some seconaries. OR you could just leave the E-Manage alone and run a Rebic AIC controller and a pair of secondary rails... which is an option.
What would I do if I were someone who wanted to try and use the E-Manage? Well I would experiment with different setups. The less injector correction factor your running, the more the car will drive like it should given proper air/fuel.
Please dont use this as any type of guide because I have NOT tried this yet, this is just simple where I would start playing around if I were to attempt the E-Manage, and perhaps I will for the more budget minded.
I would probably attempt a setup utilizing an upgraded fuel pump with a return line system and a 1:1 standard fuel pressure regulator. I would try the 440 injectors, and idle/vacuum fuel pressure a little below stock, so that the closed loop cycle can properly handle the extra fuel with ease with as little injector correction factor in the E-Manage that I can get away with. At this point it wouldnt be a bad idea to just tune the car as is without any boost, just to get your vacuum and driveability all squared away with this new setup. TO AN EXTENT I would always prefer to drop fuel pressure than to use injector correction. I would rather start lean and use the additional injection map to richen it up, rather then to start rich and use the airflow (injector correction does this) to lean it.
If you ask why I dont like the injector correction factor or playing with airflow readings... well... all those years and years of R&D and research Nissan did on ignition timing control for your engine... you can throw it out the window if you have any airflow corrections going on. Yes the car will run, and maybe YOU wont notice the difference.. but its not uncommon for people to blow their engines not imagining how much they advanced their timing by trying to tell the ECU that its running lower airflow.
From here, it should be possible to get the car running very good outside of boost. As for boost, heres where I would take it. As rediculous as this sounds, I would probably toss in a Rising Rate FMU, such as the Vortech, and I would start with a 6:1 or so spring. WTF would I do that? Well, a 440 injector IMHO is small. Sure bigger would be nice, but its easier said than done getting a E-Manage car running well with extremely oversized injectors. Not to mention what I said about airflow correction. I would put in this FMU only to ASSIST the itty bitty 440s since it is a boost only factor. Basically the FMU will increase fuel pressure by 6 psi per every 1 psi of boost. This means it will take far less additional injection mapping to get proper airflow... and therefore I will not reach peak duty cycle until higher boost levels. If the 6:1 had the car running rich without any add. inj. mapping, then I would put in a smaller spring. I would want the car to run just a little bit lean with just the FMU, then pick up the extra fuel thru the add. inj.
Rigged? You bet, but I bet it would work. Maybe Ill try it out in the Z.
I actually have an interesting Honda Civic at my shop that we bult for a customer and we are testing this exact setup. I will have it on the dyno to attempt tuning as soon as I get the machine up and running at my shop... I still have to excavate the ground.
swinke, go ahead and verify this yourself.... create a blank test map in the E-Manage and then turn the car on, but not running. You know, key on, engine off thing so the E-Manage is powered up and so is the ECU etc etc.
Go into the live readings, cant remember what they call it in the E-Manage software, but in there you can view the airflow voltage coming in and going out. Leave the airflow map all zero'd out of course, and then throw in an injector correction just make it big like a previous 310 to a current 660 and then see watch the airflow voltage output is compared to the input.
maybe im wrong, but i really dont think i am, if you do that little test you can find out yourself.
Go into the live readings, cant remember what they call it in the E-Manage software, but in there you can view the airflow voltage coming in and going out. Leave the airflow map all zero'd out of course, and then throw in an injector correction just make it big like a previous 310 to a current 660 and then see watch the airflow voltage output is compared to the input.
maybe im wrong, but i really dont think i am, if you do that little test you can find out yourself.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas
Originally posted by phunk
swinke, go ahead and verify this yourself.... create a blank test map in the E-Manage and then turn the car on, but not running. You know, key on, engine off thing so the E-Manage is powered up and so is the ECU etc etc.
Go into the live readings, cant remember what they call it in the E-Manage software, but in there you can view the airflow voltage coming in and going out. Leave the airflow map all zero'd out of course, and then throw in an injector correction just make it big like a previous 310 to a current 660 and then see watch the airflow voltage output is compared to the input.
maybe im wrong, but i really dont think i am, if you do that little test you can find out yourself.
swinke, go ahead and verify this yourself.... create a blank test map in the E-Manage and then turn the car on, but not running. You know, key on, engine off thing so the E-Manage is powered up and so is the ECU etc etc.
Go into the live readings, cant remember what they call it in the E-Manage software, but in there you can view the airflow voltage coming in and going out. Leave the airflow map all zero'd out of course, and then throw in an injector correction just make it big like a previous 310 to a current 660 and then see watch the airflow voltage output is compared to the input.
maybe im wrong, but i really dont think i am, if you do that little test you can find out yourself.
Thanks
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 949
Likes: 0
From: Detroit, The Motor City
I am using a second bank of injectors on my eclipse. I use the 034efi EIC to control them. It works wonders and I recommend this setup on any aftermarket FI motor. I have never been so happy with a fuel system in my life. http://www.034efi.com
Also look into the megasquirt. It's an open source project, you can built it yourself. It even supports wideband o2 sensors and some other nice things.
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
Also look into the megasquirt. It's an open source project, you can built it yourself. It even supports wideband o2 sensors and some other nice things.
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
Last edited by etx; Jan 8, 2004 at 01:36 PM.
etx: i am familiar with the systems you speak of. I love the idea on AIC, but on in the intake runners right behind the main injectors.
Are you AICs in your DSM in the charge pipes pre throttle body or are they behind the factory rail? Im friends with Dale Forrester, of FRH, maybe you have his intake manifold?
-Charles
Are you AICs in your DSM in the charge pipes pre throttle body or are they behind the factory rail? Im friends with Dale Forrester, of FRH, maybe you have his intake manifold?
-Charles
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